LHBF somewhat deceased thread

[Limahong]

 

6 hours ago, rideforever said:

.

 

6 hours ago, rideforever said:

.

 

Period?

 

 

[rideforever]

I recently saw this teacher, this is the best I have seen.  I am attracted to LHBF but it seems impractical to learn it, shame.  So many people doing so many different things called LHBF, what can you do.  Even with the school and teacher in the video below, I have seen half a dozen versions ... all with variations in the form - what is the meaning of that ?!!!

Does anyone know about this teacher style or school, it's in New Kowloon apparently.

 

 

[rideforever]

Help needed for enthusiastic Mandarin translators !

This teacher purports to demonstrate the basic principles of LHBF in the following video, perhaps someone would care to translate a bit a the beginning so we can get the flavour ?

 

 

[Earl Grey]

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

I recently saw this teacher, this is the best I have seen.  I am attracted to LHBF but it seems impractical to learn it, shame.  So many people doing so many different things called LHBF, what can you do.  Even with the school and teacher in the video below, I have seen half a dozen versions ... all with variations in the form - what is the meaning of that ?!!!

Does anyone know about this teacher style or school, it's in New Kowloon apparently.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

Help needed for enthusiastic Mandarin translators !

This teacher purports to demonstrate the basic principles of LHBF in the following video, perhaps someone would care to translate a bit a the beginning so we can get the flavour ?

 

 

 

Liuhebafa's "dance" looks different because while there is a particular set of over 500 moves taught by lineages, no practitioner, once they achieve a degree of skill in internal power, will ever have a dance that looks the same because they adjust the dance based on the principles of the harmonies and methods found in it. 

 

A shorter man in our lineage who is a master will adjust the dance to take advantage of his height to hit someone's crotch versus a taller man using those principles to focus on the shoulders rather than the hip when throwing. 

 

If a student wants the exact same dance, they will have to adjust to the task of mentally memorizing it while consciously telling their body to not go into autopilot in the dance to do what is necessary to adjust in combat and for their body types, level of skill and understanding, and discipline. 

 

To hammer in a point, it was already stated earlier in this thread: 

 

On 3/13/2019 at 7:20 AM, GreytoWhite said:

Oh man - no wonder you're confused. You're doing 10,000 things at once and are learning from DVDs. If you don't already have a live instructor near you go get one or move to where one is. I've got transmissions from two different lineages now one has xingyi and bagua and the other I'm only learning bagua - both do things differently. I also learned Chen village method about 10 years ago and have gone around to touch hands (not always fight) with people in all kindsa different styles including Aikido, Eskrima, Silat, I Liq Chuan, Han family Yiquan, Yang taiji, and Chen Practical Method. Some things are the same - a LOT is different. Don't think you're building the same skill in Chen as you will in Liuhebafa - probably won't even get the same flavor from LHBF teacher to LHBF teacher dependent on their other experience. Even within my own lineages the instructors express their styles differently.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Earl Grey

[rideforever]

I am certain that people have no idea what they are doing with the economy, with spirituality, and with the internal arts !!!

But I was gratified to find that Chen Xiaowang had used his intelligence to understand the energetic principles of his tradition, their understanding is using this you can reach a high standard in 3 years, without it 20 years.  That comes from the lineage.

Personally I am not able to do bs anymore; my body won't do it.  My body says to me, they don't know what they are doing, > leave.  And so I leave.

As for LHBF it is a fragmented tradition, I have seen the same move done in 50 ways.  No it's not because they have got their own style ... that's very polite.  No, they just don't know what they are doing.

Each style is a transmission of an energy state or an energy being.  And each move has an energetic (and mechanistic) intention.  You should know all these things when you practice.  But people don't and don't care.  That's okay.  But I care that's all I'm saying !!!

A lot of people who are no longer in a lineage and still practising degrade their movements because they don't know the principles behind them.  That is really the key thing.

I was thinking a few days ago that the benefits people receive from Tai Chi are mostly due to body--mind integration and conscious-subconscious integration.  Yes they get some enegetic health benefits.  But what they don't get is the Tai Chi energetic body of the tradition - I think that's rare.  Nor do they get enlightened, that is also rare.  And the majority do not know the energetic intention of each movement.

And if they do get enlightened or awakened ... it is through Awareness, simply because they are very aware of their movements and practice a lot.  It is not the true Taoist awakening which happens through the Dantien.

There are some who get the whole shebang, but not many.

There is a lot of this kind of thing in human culture.  People do A and get B.  People talk about C and mean D.  E and F think they agree and fight with G and H.  But actually E and H agree and F and G are on the other side !!!

Maybe it's all a bit better or a bit worse then what I am saying, grey is a difficult colour to benchmark.
Where's my coffee ?

[Earl Grey]

14 minutes ago, rideforever said:

I am certain that people have no idea what they are doing with the economy, with spirituality, and with the internal arts !!!

But I was gratified to find that Chen Xiaowang had used his intelligence to understand the energetic principles of his tradition, their understanding is using this you can reach a high standard in 3 years, without it 20 years.  That comes from the lineage.

Personally I am not able to do bs anymore; my body won't do it.  My body says to me, they don't know what they are doing, > leave.  And so I leave.

As for LHBF it is a fragmented tradition, I have seen the same move done in 50 ways.  No it's not because they have got their own style ... that's very polite.  No, they just don't know what they are doing.

Each style is a transmission of an energy state or an energy being.  And each move has an energetic (and mechanistic) intention.  You should know all these things when you practice.  But people don't and don't care.  That's okay.  But I care that's all I'm saying !!!

A lot of people who are no longer in a lineage and still practising degrade their movements because they don't know the principles behind them.  That is really the key thing.

I was thinking a few days ago that the benefits people receive from Tai Chi are mostly due to body--mind integration and conscious-subconscious integration.  Yes they get some enegetic health benefits.  But what they don't get is the Tai Chi energetic body of the tradition - I think that's rare.  Nor do they get enlightened, that is also rare.  And the majority do not know the energetic intention of each movement.

And if they do get enlightened or awakened ... it is through Awareness, simply because they are very aware of their movements and practice a lot.  It is not the true Taoist awakening which happens through the Dantien.

There are some who get the whole shebang, but not many.

There is a lot of this kind of thing in human culture.  People do A and get B.  People talk about C and mean D.  E and F think they agree and fight with G and H.  But actually E and H agree and F and G are on the other side !!!

Maybe it's all a bit better or a bit worse then what I am saying, grey is a difficult colour to benchmark.
Where's my coffee ?

Based on the rant that completely ignores the point I made (and missed it entirely apparently), it might be better if you had some chamomile tea instead of coffee! 😂

[rideforever]

Notes On The Lack of Intelligence in Internal Arts

 

The energetics of many styles and lineages seem to be lost.

I noticed this when I learned Dayan Wild Goose Qigong.  After practicing it for a while I bought some reference manuals which purported to show the energetics but they didn't.  What they had was when the hand goes down in front it's the conception channel and every time the centre of the palm happens to be adjacent to somewhere it said that the Laogong was stimulating some point.  But this is all baloney.  They simply don't know what the purpose is.

 

Some medical qigongs like BKF's Dragon & Tiger have a particular energetic method like first wake up the LDT, then connect the legs to the LDT, then the upper body, then ... and so on.  Which is why I do D&T.   It is well designed and also a natural qigong.

 

It did not feel safe to do Wild Goose anymore because the movements didn't seem to make sense, there was not a particular point to it. and they were also asymmetric which is strange for a medical qigong.  And I noticed that a lot of big talking Western teachers had grey hair, I ended up learning it through Grandmaster Hui Liu from Vancouver ( I think ) because she seemed healthy and also painted beautiful traditional Chinese paintings.  But I dropped it when I realised that it wasn't a sound practice, like with many things you have to invest a lot of time to realise it is not good, although there are many beautiful things about Wild Goose.  Shane Lear also has a good soulful style.

 

With regards LHBF, I have just had another look at Helen Liang (Vancouver)'s DVD with the energetics purported to be on it ... but again it is the same kind of thing.  If the palm happens to be round about the head then Laogong feeds the Upper Dantien.  This seems like Baloney.  Although she comes from lineage so she probably does know inside what is going on ... I assume anyway.  When the palm happens to be at head level you can't say Laogang feeds upper dantien ... and get away with it; that is certainly not the point of the movement that's just a silly coincidence.

 

And then there are the very many "Tai Chi" people who do formless arm wafting and just don't care.  Like I said earlier, my body refuses to do BS, it won't let me.  It seems for many people that the more unknown the movements are the better.

 

Rooting : many practitioners talk all the time about rooting and the kwa.  I sense that this is because they don't truly know the energetic intent behind each movement or the style as a whole.  Rooting is not the point.  The point of internal styles is not to transmit the root into activity, that is a prerequisite and not the point of a style.  And I cannot be sure that Rooting is appropriate in all styles either as the root can be taken from the LDT.

 

FaJin : some spend a lot of time smashing younger students against a mattress with FaJin.  What is this about ?  Does it come down to FaJin power in the end ?  Well if so, just disregard the style and work on FaJin ... for instance FaJin from a distance, or knife FaJin ... you could study FaJin as it's own style.  But mostly the FaJin is pretty boring.  Does FaJin work in combat, do MMA use it?  Why can't you FaJin from a distance ? 
Perhaps all people want is a trick then they sleep well.

But I sense that people simply refuse to practice intelligently so that the rest of the movements become useful in combat.  That's why so may people revert to kickboxing when in combat.
Well I am not sure what to make of all this, but doesn't smell good.

 

And the same can be said for Taoist Alchemy in general, although there are so many wild ideas that I can't be completely sure, but as I have said becoming enlightened at the LDT is possible and requires no alchemy, it requires recognition and intelligence.  And doesn't require a lot of qi.

 

Many alchemical methods and Qigongs I have seen create qi structures that are unnatural obstructions in my opinion, and would have to be dissolved in order to enter the natural state which will take a long time.

 

Other ideas like you can regulate your entire being from the basement in the LDT do not seem sound either as a roof requires its own tools to fix it.

 

And the idea that you will be "physically immortal" is a strange one because there is only one world and you would certainly be mad to wish to revisit the human realm.  Also as I have bored people with ... many senior-type teachers say that enlightenment is Awareness as in Indian spirituality which means they do not really understand Taoism.  But that's fine.

 

Also, in terms of the Secret of the Golden Flower.  In the book the author specifies a practice, he tries to be unusually clear about it mentioned many points in the body to use as reference points.  Well ... as it turns out there are many people studying the Secret of the Golden Flower and they are doing different practices that come from their "teachers".  This is incredible.  Perhaps somebody is making jam Golden Flowers sandwiches somewhere.

 

Through my travels I have noticed many people failing because their ideas are incorrect.  And I am also sure that if you have correct ideas then you will succeed.

 

Also the TTC is not a text that points the way to Indian type realisation, it is written by someone on the road to a LDT realisation.  Also I don't really know what the heart-mind is, but there is a centre of feeling in the sternum that is commonly known as the "heart".  It is not a Dantien.  The heart centre is one thing, the middle Dantien is another.  

 

Okay, well I am pretty sure this will not make any difference to anyone, but there it is.

And I suppose we celebrate 2000 year old teachers because 99.99999% of people are wafting.

And that's just fine !  Well, it's gonna have to be.

 

And there's more.

Most of the breathing practices I have seen are extremely harmful imo.  Breathing is the lowest function you have that naturally takes you to the source.  Any interference with it whatsoever will destroy your journey home.  Playing with your breath is an easy fun game that gives you a sense that you have done something ... but this is not the way to become one with the breath ... that would require sensitivity and inner feeling and time.  Feel the breath inwardly at the belly, merge with it, merge with it more ... until you are not more : no adjustment necessary : do not do it from the head.  

 

Flying Phoenix from what I have seen, like many qigong styles, uses a lot of this breathing work and in my opinion is a style that is done from the forehead ... in other words it is a style of awareness control of your functions and not taoist at all.  Control is always attractive because it quickly give s you a sense of doing something, and you can force things and do 30,000 repetitions and really torture yourself so that you are head of the class.

But all this alas has nothing to do with Taoism.

And nothing to do with spirituality.

 

The problem with control methods is that they give results.  But ... they are not the droids you are looking for.

Edited February 19, 2020 by rideforever

[Cleansox]

18 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Notes On The Lack of Intelligence in Internal Arts

 

The energetics of many styles and lineages seem to be lost.

I noticed this when I learned Dayan Wild Goose Qigong.  After practicing it for a while I bought some reference manuals which purported to show the energetics but they didn't.  What they had was when the hand goes down in front it's the conception channel and every time the centre of the palm happens to be adjacent to somewhere it said that the Laogong was stimulating some point.  But this is all baloney. 

Probably 

18 minutes ago, rideforever said:

They simply don't know what the purpose is.

Or won't tell. 

18 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

It did not feel safe to do Wild Goose anymore /...... /and they were also asymmetric which is strange for a medical qigong.  

What if Wild Goose did not evolve as a medical qigong, but as a spiritual gong? 

In that scenario, assymetrical is logical. 

[rideforever]

17 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

What if Wild Goose did not evolve as a medical qigong, but as a spiritual gong? 

In that scenario, assymetrical is logical. 

I had a reading that it was a spiritual gong ... I practiced it for several months seriously but I felt it was not right internally, the effect was not correct.  It did various things but there was not a integrated result and it began to feel dangerous as if there were pieces missing.  When I do Dragon and Tiger, have been for a long time, you can clearly feel the total integration of your body in a natural unforced way. 

My body said no to Wild Goose ... but it is an attractive style, animal styles are, but I have to be honest.  There are certain rather strange moves that don't feel good, and the sequence also doesn't feel good ... in the first third of the first form I felt there were problems.
Also in general not knowing what it was meant to do limited what you can do with it ... you can't deepen the effect if you don't know what the effect is.  In D&T there are 2 books the second has clear technical guidance for the flow of qi ... which is quite simple and not alchemical.

[ReturnDragon]

On 2/18/2020 at 12:12 PM, rideforever said:

Help needed for enthusiastic Mandarin translators !

This teacher purports to demonstrate the basic principles of LHBF in the following video, perhaps someone would care to translate a bit a the beginning so we can get the flavour ?

 

 

@1.31 There are two stances: Static and dynamic stands
First one: Breathing stand
@ 1:53 Static stand demo
@ 2:11 stand with feet together; toes point toward the front; body straight with head's up
Lower chin goes inward; eyes look straight forward;
lips slightly closed; lock the teeth slightly; breathe with nose
Mainly is abdominal breathing; require the sacrum and coccyx to be center with vertical;
shoulders relaxed; elbows down to the sides of the buttock;
thumbs toward the front; palms facing inward;
sink body slightly downward; left foot move toward the left;
feet parallel at shoulder width; body sink downward with knees bent.
 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by ReturnDragon

[Earl Grey]

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

Notes On The Lack of Intelligence in Internal Arts

 

The energetics of many styles and lineages seem to be lost.

I noticed this when I learned Dayan Wild Goose Qigong.  After practicing it for a while I bought some reference manuals which purported to show the energetics but they didn't.  What they had was when the hand goes down in front it's the conception channel and every time the centre of the palm happens to be adjacent to somewhere it said that the Laogong was stimulating some point.  But this is all baloney.  They simply don't know what the purpose is.

 

As Cleansox said, they [probably] won't tell. In my lineage, when someone refuses to do due diligence for their assignments, complains, has so many ideas about what internal arts should be versus what they actually are, hops from teacher to teacher or learns from ten systems at once, and talks about how much they know while begging to know more without humility (which describes everything that you're doing right now ), this is one thing they do: talk about the correct method, but show them the wrong method. This is a deliberate action, which requires two things: 1) the teacher has to know what they're doing, 2) the student/whiner has to be a disappointment or someone whom they don't trust to give the skill. 

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

Some medical qigongs like BKF's Dragon & Tiger have a particular energetic method like first wake up the LDT, then connect the legs to the LDT, then the upper body, then ... and so on.  Which is why I do D&T.   It is well designed and also a natural qigong.

 

It did not feel safe to do Wild Goose anymore because the movements didn't seem to make sense, there was not a particular point to it. and they were also asymmetric which is strange for a medical qigong.  And I noticed that a lot of big talking Western teachers had grey hair, I ended up learning it through Grandmaster Hui Liu from Vancouver ( I think ) because she seemed healthy and also painted beautiful traditional Chinese paintings.  But I dropped it when I realised that it wasn't a sound practice, like with many things you have to invest a lot of time to realise it is not good, although there are many beautiful things about Wild Goose.  Shane Lear also has a good soulful style.

 

Mixing practices is often not a good idea, but the caveats to it are if they have synergy rather than contradict each other. Normally, one must build a foundation in their practice to know when they can add or if what they are adding is detrimental. Seems like you're still trying to build your foundation. 

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

With regards LHBF, I have just had another look at Helen Liang (Vancouver)'s DVD with the energetics purported to be on it ... but again it is the same kind of thing.  If the palm happens to be round about the head then Laogong feeds the Upper Dantien.  This seems like Baloney.  Although she comes from lineage so she probably does know inside what is going on ... I assume anyway.  When the palm happens to be at head level you can't say Laogang feeds upper dantien ... and get away with it; that is certainly not the point of the movement that's just a silly coincidence.

 

As I haven't seen Helen Liang, I can't comment on it, but in general, DVDs are marketed to the masses, and there is both misinformation and disinformation, the former coming from being taught for public shows rather than for skill or by teachers whose teachers didn't know or didn't teach what was good, and the latter a deliberate act. 

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

And then there are the very many "Tai Chi" people who do formless arm wafting and just don't care.  Like I said earlier, my body refuses to do BS, it won't let me.  It seems for many people that the more unknown the movements are the better.

 

That's because most people who do Tai Chi aren't actually doing Tai Chi, but fancy arm waving. So when Glenn here explains it, people are surprised, and he is only teaching martial Taijiquan, but he has Tai Chi the skill and understands completely both the philosophy and has healing ability, which he will never show publicly. 

 

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

Rooting : many practitioners talk all the time about rooting and the kwa.  I sense that this is because they don't truly know the energetic intent behind each movement or the style as a whole.  Rooting is not the point.  The point of internal styles is not to transmit the root into activity, that is a prerequisite and not the point of a style.  And I cannot be sure that Rooting is appropriate in all styles either as the root can be taken from the LDT.

 

Bullshit! Rooting is a skill that displays whether or not someone knows what the hell they're talking about, and you obviously don't, either.  

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

FaJin : some spend a lot of time smashing younger students against a mattress with FaJin.  What is this about ?  Does it come down to FaJin power in the end ?  Well if so, just disregard the style and work on FaJin ... for instance FaJin from a distance, or knife FaJin ... you could study FaJin as it's own style.  But mostly the FaJin is pretty boring.  Does FaJin work in combat, do MMA use it?  Why can't you FaJin from a distance ? 
Perhaps all people want is a trick then they sleep well.

But I sense that people simply refuse to practice intelligently so that the rest of the movements become useful in combat.  That's why so may people revert to kickboxing when in combat.
Well I am not sure what to make of all this, but doesn't smell good.

 

Since you're obviously referring to the video of Grandmaster David demonstrating Fa Jin, you are making an unsubtle jab at him, which I will reply with a simple, "You don't have it or understand it, so it's easier to dismiss it as crap and call it BS than to work hard or humble yourself in order to learn it." 

 

Or, more bluntly: it's easier to call something bullshit and tell everyone it's bullshit because you failed to achieve what you wanted. Whether through your attitude (likely the case) or your lack of understanding (definitely a big part at least), you won't ever achieve it without humbling yourself. 

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

And the same can be said for Taoist Alchemy in general, although there are so many wild ideas that I can't be completely sure, but as I have said becoming enlightened at the LDT is possible and requires no alchemy, it requires recognition and intelligence.  And doesn't require a lot of qi.

 

Big NOPE here. For someone who is ranting, you sure speak with a lot of self-authority. 

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

Many alchemical methods and Qigongs I have seen create qi structures that are unnatural obstructions in my opinion, and would have to be dissolved in order to enter the natural state which will take a long time.

 

Seems like you've mostly seen the mass market crap.

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

Other ideas like you can regulate your entire being from the basement in the LDT do not seem sound either as a roof requires its own tools to fix it.

 

They are indeed bullshit because they're incomplete information and again, disinformation.  

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

And the idea that you will be "physically immortal" is a strange one because there is only one world and you would certainly be mad to wish to revisit the human realm.  Also as I have bored people with ... many senior-type teachers say that enlightenment is Awareness as in Indian spirituality which means they do not really understand Taoism.  But that's fine.

 

Or you haven't encountered the people who know what they're talking about and again have made your own conclusions from what is publicly available that only scratches the surface.

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

Also, in terms of the Secret of the Golden Flower.  In the book the author specifies a practice, he tries to be unusually clear about it mentioned many points in the body to use as reference points.  Well ... as it turns out there are many people studying the Secret of the Golden Flower and they are doing different practices that come from their "teachers".  This is incredible.  Perhaps somebody is making jam Golden Flowers sandwiches somewhere.

 

 

Many people who claim to do it actually don't know what it is, but look for results described in the book or others' experiences.

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

Through my travels I have noticed many people failing because their ideas are incorrect.  And I am also sure that if you have correct ideas then you will succeed.

 

You can have correct ideas, but you still need to treat them as a blueprint and then have the materials and tools to put them together into something.

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

Also the TTC is not a text that points the way to Indian type realisation, it is written by someone on the road to a LDT realisation.  Also I don't really know what the heart-mind is, but there is a centre of feeling in the sternum that is commonly known as the "heart".  It is not a Dantien.  The heart centre is one thing, the middle Dantien is another.  

 

This is correct. The heart chakra, the physical heart, and the MDT are all different.

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

Okay, well I am pretty sure this will not make any difference to anyone, but there it is.

 

 

That's because it's a rant.  

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

And I suppose we celebrate 2000 year old teachers because 99.99999% of people are wafting.

And that's just fine !  Well, it's gonna have to be.

 

Marketing and advertising cultures.  

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

And there's more.

Most of the breathing practices I have seen are extremely harmful imo.  Breathing is the lowest function you have that naturally takes you to the source.  Any interference with it whatsoever will destroy your journey home.  Playing with your breath is an easy fun game that gives you a sense that you have done something ... but this is not the way to become one with the breath ... that would require sensitivity and inner feeling and time.  Feel the breath inwardly at the belly, merge with it, merge with it more ... until you are not more : no adjustment necessary : do not do it from the head.  

 

Most. Not all. Suburban yoga studio breathing is crap for deep level practices, real techniques or natural breathing are rare. Yes, natural breathing is rare if you live in the city.

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

Flying Phoenix from what I have seen, like many qigong styles, uses a lot of this breathing work and in my opinion is a style that is done from the forehead ... in other words it is a style of awareness control of your functions and not taoist at all.  Control is always attractive because it quickly give s you a sense of doing something, and you can force things and do 30,000 repetitions and really torture yourself so that you are head of the class.

But all this alas has nothing to do with Taoism.

And nothing to do with spirituality.

 

Ah, that's right, you came to troll our thread a couple years back without understanding a thing at all about the system and were telling people not to worry about breathing patterns and breath control.

 

It's like an old English geriatric inserting himself into a conversation on a subject he knows nothing about and trying to make himself an authority, much like a bricklayer talks about gold and its value or Bitcoin because he read it on Facebook and saw it on YouTube, made a little money, lost a lot more money, so everyone else talking about something that eluded him are wasting their time because he wasted his own time..except we aren't talking about gold or Bitcoin, but our return on investment for our particular niche of, oh, let's say...organic tea.

 

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

The problem with control methods is that they give results.  But ... they are not the droids you are looking for.

 

The biggest control methods are the ego and the know-it-alls who know nothing. 

 

This is about the best summary of your little rant:

 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Earl Grey

[Cleansox]

9 hours ago, rideforever said:

I had a reading that it was a spiritual gong ... I practiced it for several months seriously but I felt it was not right internally, the effect was not correct.  It did various things but there was not a integrated result and it began to feel dangerous as if there were pieces missing. 

Likely that pieces was missing. 

I once spent six full days learning the six symmetrical movements of Gods playing in the sky, and the teacher said that there were much more to learn. 

Isn't Wild Goose a really long form (128?), with more complex external movements? 

 

9 hours ago, rideforever said:

When I do Dragon and Tiger, have been for a long time, you can clearly feel the total integration of your body in a natural unforced way. 

It is supposed to be straight forward, at least that is what I have heard. 

9 hours ago, rideforever said:

There are certain rather strange moves that don't feel good, and the sequence also doesn't feel good ... in the first third of the first form I felt there were problems.

Yes, if you are sensitive, working with the basic layer of a complex form might feel like it is lacking. 

And if it the form actually work with reversals, that in it self might feel unnatural in the beginning. 

9 hours ago, rideforever said:

Also in general not knowing what it was meant to do limited what you can do with it ... you can't deepen the effect if you don't know what the effect is.  

Or, you can't deepen the effect if you don't know the intricacies of the method. The effect is the result, not the doing in it self. 

[rideforever]

3 hours ago, Cleansox said:

the six symmetrical movements of Gods playing in the sky

 

You mean from BKF ? 
Michael Winn does a version of this with only one movement, he says that he and BKF learnt it from the same Chinese teacher and there is only one movement ... his version is on youtube.  

That's another thing the need to monetize has created .... the usual situation on this planet, where it's difficult to find a good plumber.

[rideforever]

12 hours ago, ReturnDragon said:

@1.31 There are two stances: Static and dynamic stands

 

Thanks for that, I appreciate it !

[Cleansox]

4 hours ago, rideforever said:

 

You mean from BKF ? 
Michael Winn does a version of this with only one movement, he says that he and BKF learnt it from the same Chinese teacher 

BKF learned that from a teacher that only had two students, which make this really unlikely. MW must mix this up with another form, perhaps primordial qigong which a handful of US teachers had the chance to learn? 

[rideforever]

48 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

BKF learned that from a teacher that only had two students, which make this really unlikely. MW must mix this up with another form, perhaps primordial qigong which a handful of US teachers had the chance to learn? 

 

I am relating some of MW's statements of Gods Playing in the Clouds correctly.  Perhaps you might say that he is insincere or confused.  Personally I don't think so.

[Cleansox]

13 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

I am relating some of MW's statements of Gods Playing in the Clouds correctly.  Perhaps you might say that he is insincere or confused.  Personally I don't think so.

MW: Gods play in original chi. 

So: Different methods. 

[rideforever]

On 20/02/2020 at 2:55 PM, Cleansox said:

MW: Gods play in original chi. 

So: Different methods. 

 

Actually it is the same ; but I am mistaken in that MW has a 2hr DVD with 6 movements on it same as BKF, it's $30 physical or $45 download.  He says he added in some alchemical kan li elements.  I might get it actually.