The Self, Does it Exist?

[ion]

3 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I've been through all that here before.  Keep in mind I am a Materialist and a Physicalist.

 

There really are some instincts woven into our brain.  They can be over-come but it is very difficult to do so.

 

Self:  Everything that is and what has become a part of this animal called "Marblehead".  No, I cannot put my finger on my "Self".  That is because it is not just one thing.

 

For sure the "Self" is dependent on many things.  The air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat, etc.  We are not self-sustaining objects.  Nothing is, really, except for Dao.  But then, that's not a thing so it doesn't apply.

 

A physicists you should know our only instinct is to assimilate the beliefs and ways of the culture you were born into. All thoughts and emotions are the byproduct of that assimilation of culture.

 

Anthropologist will tell you that its a fact that if you took a Caucasian baby born in middle America to a tribe that lived in the jungle of Papaya New Guinea to be raised there by them with no contact with its "mom & dad" it would grow up as one of them with nothing at all in common psychologically with what they would have become if it grew up in the states. It would not identify with its birth family at all.

 

Things like this have happened and been documented, where as the opposite has not happened.

 

We arent born with any other instinct. And if we were and those "went away" they could not be called self.

 

Ifa self is not an individual like you say, that it's,made up of a combination of things, how is it a self?

[SirYuri]

The inner and outer world only exist because we believe and other people believe it too. Therefore, you are where your attention and interest is. Because all you are is consciousness.

Edited July 27, 2018 by SirYuri

[Limahong]

Just now, Marblehead said:

"How the fxxk would I know?"

 

Don't be crude because I think I am not crude.

[ion]

So the self does,not exist in the 4drealityand is dependent only on magic? Maybe God makes selves?

 

what are they made out of ?Even God has dependencies, the principle of infinity for one

 

nothing exist in this world or others that is not dependent.

[Marblehead]

2 minutes ago, ion said:

Anthropologist will tell you that its a fact that if you took a Caucasian baby born in middle America to a tribe that lived in the jungle of Papaya New Guinea to be raised there by them with no contact with its "mom & dad" it would grow up as one of them with nothing at all in common psychologically with what they would have become if it grew up in the states. It would not identify with its birth family at all.

You are here speaking of acculturation.  I have no disagreement with this.

 

However, the instinct for survival, the instinct of fight or flight, the instinct to drink and eat when thirsty and hungry, even the instinct of fear of the unknown.

 

But the self, the "all that I am" individual, is always a combination of everything that it has encounter even before its birth.  Not a thing in and of itself but a combination of countless things including what is fed to its body as well as what is fed to its mind.

 

 

 

[Marblehead]

7 minutes ago, SirYuri said:

The inner and outer world only exist because we believe and other people believe it too.

Hehehe.  Good try.  I don't buy that though.  The outer world existed before there were any humans to define it.  4.5 billion years ago; the "homo" animal is at most only 4 million years.

 

[Limahong]

4 minutes ago, ion said:

nothing exist in this world or others that is not dependent.

 

Nature.

[Marblehead]

7 minutes ago, Limahong said:

 

Don't be crude because I think I am not crude.

I am crude and that is who/what I am.  It's okay for you to not be crude though.

 

[SirYuri]

1 minute ago, Marblehead said:

Hehehe.  Good try.  I don't buy that though.  The outer world existed before there were any humans to define it.  4.5 billion years ago; the "homo" animal is at most only 4 million years.

 

 

 

Well for the logical mind it will not make sense. But beyond the mind exist something higher of it.

[Marblehead]

7 minutes ago, ion said:

nothing exist in this world or others that is not dependent.

100% agreed.  I used to argue this point but I finally realized that my argument had no substance.

 

[Marblehead]

1 minute ago, SirYuri said:

 

 

Well for the logical mind it will not make sense. But beyond the mind exist something higher of it.

Hehehe.  You changed the subject on me.

 

Man follows Earth,

Earth follows Heaven,

Heaven follows Dao,

Dao follows itself.

 

But remember, Dao is not a thing.

 

[Limahong]

3 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I am crude...

 

But not crude - thankfully.

[Limahong]

6 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Dao is not a thing.

 

The Dao spoken is not the eternalness [of the Dao].

[Limahong]

11 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

... my argument had no substance.

 

It is now 0%?... aligned conceptually with wu-wei and The Void?

[Marblehead]

1 minute ago, Limahong said:

 

It is now 0%?... aligned conceptually with wu-wei and The Void?

Pretty much.  I pride myself on being able to take care of myself without the help of others.  As I age my abilities weaken.

 

Aligned with wu wei, I would say, but not with void.

 

 

[Limahong]

17 minutes ago, SirYuri said:

Well for the logical mind it will not make sense.

 

Dear Sir,

 

Whose mind is logical?

 

Illogical => not make sense.

 

- LimA

 

[Limahong]

3 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

As I age my abilities weaken.

 

Please try and not to think like that...

 

[lifeforce]

On 25/07/2018 at 4:06 PM, ion said:

Buddhist doctrine is clear that there is no self. In fact it is one of the 3 marks of existence.

 

Not necessarily. See my link above.

[Marblehead]

Just now, Limahong said:

 

Please try and not to think like that...

 

Oh, my body just keeps reminding me.  No matter how much I try to not think about it I am naturally reminded.

 

The oldest woman on the planet died yesterday at the age of 117(?).  Now there's a new oldest woman.

 

Once again proof that time is linear.

 

[Limahong]

On 7/25/2018 at 11:06 PM, ion said:

Buddhist doctrine is clear that there is no self.

 

But when I break the law - the police will catch me.

[Limahong]

13 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I would say, but not with void.

 

I forgot - you have avoided The Void before.

[Marblehead]

4 minutes ago, Limahong said:

 

But when I break the law - the police will catch me.

Only if they see you or learn about you in some other way.

 

Otherwise no one did anything that broke a law.

 

 

[Limahong]

7 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Once again proof that time is linear.

 

 

[Limahong]

3 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Only if they see you or learn about you in some other way. Otherwise no one did anything that broke a law.

 

When I was in military service I pride myself thus - I could do anything and I was not caught.

 

 

[Marblehead]

Some people are natural "Sneaky Petes".