To those who plan to join "traditionaltao" and those affected by it.

[Chanwu]

Dear tao bums,

 

Sorry for maybe starting a flame war the first thing I do but I believe this is of utmost importance. It is the reason why I joined, to be able to post about the things I have read here that I believe should be straightened out once and for all.

 

There's a relatively new movement around, the people in it make a lot of claims. In almost every post I have seen claims that they are the most authentic, the "only way", that they are following the "old style" where secrecy is part of that style, and where sharing means "I share the very basics that aren't even needed, with you, for 3000 USD, in a year you will have to spend 3000 more to get more basics that you don't need". All while implying this system is what gives the best results and that "you need this".

 

I have been a member in their forum, quietly observing what's happening.

 

Soon my membership there is ended because they will now charge 250 USD to allow you to even be in the forum as a spectator. All you can do as a spectator is to get news updates regarding training.

 

All this is done in the light of "we are just trying to keep the unserious people out".

 

Have you seen the double morals of a televangelist? They have fortresses and private jetplanes etc, all in the "name of the lord". It all reminds me of this very thing.

 

 

They do have very nice tactics - I have seen several people banned for only speaking their mind and raising perfectly same questions. Why? Well, everytime someone is a money-threat to them, they get kicked out immediately.

 

The tactics? Oh how can I put them all down from just my memory....

 

-If you teach others you will hurt people and get bad karma. We have immortals on our side (we'll see how immortal they are in 50-70 years) that will frown upon you if you don't follow "our ways".

 

-The system you practise now will give you kidney problems at best, or even kill you.

 

-The system you practise now doesn't give you anything, perhaps it's even dangerous.

 

-If you don't have a real teacher to give you an initiation you can forget about it all. (Nonsense, who initiated the first ones from the beginning? It's like reiki - who needs initiation to be able to heal? NO ONE). Surely a healer can help with blockages and such, but that's all there is to "initiation".

 

-A representative of this group will soon post in this thread stating that I am making a fool out of myself, that I am endangering the relationship between the west and the east - just to make all the students worried that they might get all the teachings and become enlightened or get super immortal powers. This is the worst tactic of them all, because it turns people against eachother because of EGO. This is not only evil, it is NEFARIOUS.

 

-The china trip is 7200$ but what David didn't tell some of the students is that they needed to pay even more to get initiation/healing/treatment from D's alleged master in China, otherwise the practise would not be as useful or maybe even "useless". (This involves killing big animals to steal their life force/chi).

 

-In the forum they go about the teachings as "it's now or never" "buy it now or the prices may go up soon" "take the deal now as Dr D has offered to teach this now but may not later". It's like a warehouse with special-ultra-limited-offers, buy now while you still can!

 

 

Now, do this system have something to teach? Sure it does, but it's far from secret and exclusive knowledge.

 

And you know what the best part is? Groups will form where people send money to one person and they share within the group. Wouldn't you say this is karma in a direct way? Funny how it works, isn't it?

 

Anyways, I wish D.V. would see what he's really doing here. He is not playing with respect to the old ways, the old ways were never meant to be this prostituted, nor secret like they all claim. In fact, this should be more of a open and welcomming community, which of course carefully screen their students to help them with their progress. It's not about being in the center of things and being "authorities" of who gets to teach and where only rich people can afford the teachings. This is what they have reduced theh teachings to and it is NOT honorable in the "old ways" as they so proudly say all the time.

 

This is another thing - how can David help his students with energy blockages and such that they say may arise from practise? He lives in China. The student/master relationship is one of strong bonds and friendship - and as he's the only representative that will teach these methods (according to them) - how can he have time to offer help to his students and screen their progress? No, you will have to pay 3000 USD in order to get to the next course and there he may be able to work with you.

 

Of course, being the only with authority to teach this, as D claims, is only a way to make sure no one makes the big bucks out of this teaching. It's not about helping others to make the world a better place, even if this behaviour is hidden with fancy words and xing pling plong fang gong jong-techniques to hide what's really going on.

 

Do I dislike them? No. They have given into their egoistic side, it happens to the best of us. We should always be aware of this side of ourselves, the side that wants authority, power, admiration, etc. If we don't, these aspects that we all have will take over. Make no mistake about it. Even a high level practioner has to beware of this, no matter what level.

 

Of course, as I pointed out, this post will not be seen for what it is - one that is made from a pure intention of good will for each and everyone. I have a lot of respect for the masters and schools in china. But spirituality is altruistic in nature, not for the rich only. Ever heard of the stories of the great masters that started out very poor but still became one of the most powerful people around?

 

My dear dear friends, you are all part of god and we are all in this together. Everyone who does not lead astray and trust that their own path will lead them to liberation will rely on their own confidence that this can be achieved by anyone who has the right determination and dedication. You don't need to spend 50000$ to realize this, but it's hard to be confident at times. This leads to your mind seeking easier and "more correct" ways. There are no easy ways, dedication is what pays off. Start meditation today, learn how to breath, take it easy and don't strain your legs too much, stretch, read up on subjects, find an altruistic teacher. There's many books around that describe high level practises (Six yogas of naropa, clear light of bliss, Mahamudra, etc). You have resources around you, realize that and make good use of them. Don't look at people who say "our way is the only way" - when you meet such people, run as fast as you can!

 

Of course, the representative will point out that I am wrong in this, but anyone who has seen both his and the posts from this group will know what I am talking about. The slandering of all the others paths and then the double sided saying that the people who don't agree are making the situation between east and west more tense, when in fact they themselves are going about these teachings in a very disrespectful way - not only for slandering and infecting the community (which they say they want to avoid), but for prostituting these teachings to an insane degree.

 

 

Another funny thing is that both the "Xing Shen Zhuang" instructor in Denmark and in Sweden also teach "Healing tao", when this system is so heavily bashed. Oh yes, I have done my research.

 

 

Of course the group I am talking about is the "http://www.traditionaltao.com/" group.

 

 

 

 

Good resources for your consideration (not personally sponsoring these but I want to share resources):

http://www.robertpeng.com/robert_peng.html (also "the real deal")

http://www.chikung-unlimited.com/Chakra-Meditation.html (good and cheap courses, looks like a very altruistic and good-willed teacher).

http://www.wudangtao.com/store/product.cgi/57/Videos

http://www.kunlunbliss.com/books.html

http://www.universal-tao.com/article/exercises.html

http://www.alchemylab.com/golden_flower.htm (this I find important and enlightening)

 

 

There's much more of course, it is my hope that this post will reach out to as many as possible because I believe what is being done is against the spirit of the old teachings and honorable ways.

 

Of course I will be bashed, threatened, etc... but this post is because I do love you all, and I do want everyone to experience what a wonderful world we live in, full of mysteries to discover.

 

 

Thanks for reading,

Chanwu

 

Keys: Traditional tao, Xing Shen Zhuang, Sheng Zheng Gong, Foundation Training Forum

[sunshine]

Hi Chanwu,

 

I itended to stay out of topics like these because there can be no real win-win situation. It is always turning round in circles. Some say "yes", other "no", some "good", some "bad"... quite boring actually. While a student I am no fool and I am not a representative to say that clear?

 

I just wonder. What is your true intent? You won'T scare any away who do not want to be scared away and those who are with you are with you even without your posting.

 

Are you at least clear about that you leave no space for arguing productively against you, as you already pre-classify it as " a representtive who will... "bash", "threaten" etc. etc. etc." ???

 

Let me say one thing clear. You could be absolutely right and you can be downright wrong. There is no way for you to know for sure though, whatever your believes, understandings, ethics, moral or whatever.

 

THIS is important to realize!

 

And more important thing to realize: Everybody is responsible for their own decisions!

 

I have seen and partaken in groups who are, lets say: "double-edged"... and there is always the chance to say that in retrospect... claiming it in advance is troublesome though, although understandable. What you do here could easily explaine with specific terminology taken from pschology... no need to do it though. Just want to point out at the "double-edge" of your post as well, which was only written in the name of love...

 

no sarcasm here.

 

There are here and there bits in your post that do not represent full truth... just your interpretation of things.

 

I understand your worries. I have them myself. But an honest worry does not formulate full-fledged conviction.

 

just a few thoughts

 

call me a fool. Call me a sinner. Just don't call me representative please...

 

 

Harry

[Chanwu]

Hello Harry, thanks for the reply.

 

I agree with you. My post is a counter-weight on lady justice's scales of balance.

 

I believe it's a needed post and the points and concerns needed to be raised.

 

Good luck with your practise!

[sunshine]

[wudangspirit]

Chanwu,

 

Although your point may be a good one in respect to a lot...okay a majority of groups out there are just there to take your money, but we all need teachers or should I say guides to show us something we don't know or something that may already be in front of our noses.

 

I don't think we need to use our forum to bash other websites or forums. This is a place of learning. At least that's why I am here. To learn or listen to something or someone with some insight.

 

We can go on and on bashing others because it is obvious that there are scammers out there however we are here to have fun and talk. Do we make snide remarks sometimes..."yes". Do we seem to correct each other or debate..."yes". But our intentions are good I think. Not here to ruin other's reputation.

 

Our Tao is Our Tao and that is just for us and no one else. We have Masters or teachers to help guide us to see our own path. There are many ways to see that. Some techniques or lineages may be more efficient than others based upon our personal experiences. But that is just it! It's for ourselves.

 

In Taoism there is a saying...."We are here to be entertained by life not to entertain life." So lets just enjoy our forum!

 

Wudangspirit

 

Dear tao bums,

 

Sorry for maybe starting a flame war the first thing I do but I believe this is of utmost importance. It is the reason why I joined, to be able to post about the things I have read here that I believe should be straightened out once and for all.

 

There's a relatively new movement around, the people in it make a lot of claims. In almost every post I have seen claims that they are the most authentic, the "only way", that they are following the "old style" where secrecy is part of that style, and where sharing means "I share the very basics that aren't even needed, with you, for 3000 USD, in a year you will have to spend 3000 more to get more basics that you don't need". All while implying this system is what gives the best results and that "you need this".

 

I have been a member in their forum, quietly observing what's happening.

 

Soon my membership there is ended because they will now charge 250 USD to allow you to even be in the forum as a spectator. All you can do as a spectator is to get news updates regarding training.

 

All this is done in the light of "we are just trying to keep the unserious people out".

 

Have you seen the double morals of a televangelist? They have fortresses and private jetplanes etc, all in the "name of the lord". It all reminds me of this very thing.

They do have very nice tactics - I have seen several people banned for only speaking their mind and raising perfectly same questions. Why? Well, everytime someone is a money-threat to them, they get kicked out immediately.

 

The tactics? Oh how can I put them all down from just my memory....

 

-If you teach others you will hurt people and get bad karma. We have immortals on our side (we'll see how immortal they are in 50-70 years) that will frown upon you if you don't follow "our ways".

 

-The system you practise now will give you kidney problems at best, or even kill you.

 

-The system you practise now doesn't give you anything, perhaps it's even dangerous.

 

-If you don't have a real teacher to give you an initiation you can forget about it all. (Nonsense, who initiated the first ones from the beginning? It's like reiki - who needs initiation to be able to heal? NO ONE). Surely a healer can help with blockages and such, but that's all there is to "initiation".

 

-A representative of this group will soon post in this thread stating that I am making a fool out of myself, that I am endangering the relationship between the west and the east - just to make all the students worried that they might get all the teachings and become enlightened or get super immortal powers. This is the worst tactic of them all, because it turns people against eachother because of EGO. This is not only evil, it is NEFARIOUS.

 

-The china trip is 7200$ but what David didn't tell some of the students is that they needed to pay even more to get initiation/healing/treatment from D's alleged master in China, otherwise the practise would not be as useful or maybe even "useless". (This involves killing big animals to steal their life force/chi).

 

-In the forum they go about the teachings as "it's now or never" "buy it now or the prices may go up soon" "take the deal now as Dr D has offered to teach this now but may not later". It's like a warehouse with special-ultra-limited-offers, buy now while you still can!

Now, do this system have something to teach? Sure it does, but it's far from secret and exclusive knowledge.

 

And you know what the best part is? Groups will form where people send money to one person and they share within the group. Wouldn't you say this is karma in a direct way? Funny how it works, isn't it?

 

Anyways, I wish D.V. would see what he's really doing here. He is not playing with respect to the old ways, the old ways were never meant to be this prostituted, nor secret like they all claim. In fact, this should be more of a open and welcomming community, which of course carefully screen their students to help them with their progress. It's not about being in the center of things and being "authorities" of who gets to teach and where only rich people can afford the teachings. This is what they have reduced theh teachings to and it is NOT honorable in the "old ways" as they so proudly say all the time.

 

This is another thing - how can David help his students with energy blockages and such that they say may arise from practise? He lives in China. The student/master relationship is one of strong bonds and friendship - and as he's the only representative that will teach these methods (according to them) - how can he have time to offer help to his students and screen their progress? No, you will have to pay 3000 USD in order to get to the next course and there he may be able to work with you.

 

Of course, being the only with authority to teach this, as D claims, is only a way to make sure no one makes the big bucks out of this teaching. It's not about helping others to make the world a better place, even if this behaviour is hidden with fancy words and xing pling plong fang gong jong-techniques to hide what's really going on.

 

Do I dislike them? No. They have given into their egoistic side, it happens to the best of us. We should always be aware of this side of ourselves, the side that wants authority, power, admiration, etc. If we don't, these aspects that we all have will take over. Make no mistake about it. Even a high level practioner has to beware of this, no matter what level.

 

Of course, as I pointed out, this post will not be seen for what it is - one that is made from a pure intention of good will for each and everyone. I have a lot of respect for the masters and schools in china. But spirituality is altruistic in nature, not for the rich only. Ever heard of the stories of the great masters that started out very poor but still became one of the most powerful people around?

 

My dear dear friends, you are all part of god and we are all in this together. Everyone who does not lead astray and trust that their own path will lead them to liberation will rely on their own confidence that this can be achieved by anyone who has the right determination and dedication. You don't need to spend 50000$ to realize this, but it's hard to be confident at times. This leads to your mind seeking easier and "more correct" ways. There are no easy ways, dedication is what pays off. Start meditation today, learn how to breath, take it easy and don't strain your legs too much, stretch, read up on subjects, find an altruistic teacher. There's many books around that describe high level practises (Six yogas of naropa, clear light of bliss, Mahamudra, etc). You have resources around you, realize that and make good use of them. Don't look at people who say "our way is the only way" - when you meet such people, run as fast as you can!

 

Of course, the representative will point out that I am wrong in this, but anyone who has seen both his and the posts from this group will know what I am talking about. The slandering of all the others paths and then the double sided saying that the people who don't agree are making the situation between east and west more tense, when in fact they themselves are going about these teachings in a very disrespectful way - not only for slandering and infecting the community (which they say they want to avoid), but for prostituting these teachings to an insane degree.

Another funny thing is that both the "Xing Shen Zhuang" instructor in Denmark and in Sweden also teach "Healing tao", when this system is so heavily bashed. Oh yes, I have done my research.

Of course the group I am talking about is the "http://www.traditionaltao.com/" group.

Good resources for your consideration (not personally sponsoring these but I want to share resources):

http://www.robertpeng.com/robert_peng.html (also "the real deal")

http://www.chikung-unlimited.com/Chakra-Meditation.html (good and cheap courses, looks like a very altruistic and good-willed teacher).

http://www.wudangtao.com/store/product.cgi/57/Videos

http://www.kunlunbliss.com/books.html

http://www.universal-tao.com/article/exercises.html

http://www.alchemylab.com/golden_flower.htm (this I find important and enlightening)

There's much more of course, it is my hope that this post will reach out to as many as possible because I believe what is being done is against the spirit of the old teachings and honorable ways.

 

Of course I will be bashed, threatened, etc... but this post is because I do love you all, and I do want everyone to experience what a wonderful world we live in, full of mysteries to discover.

Thanks for reading,

Chanwu

 

Keys: Traditional tao, Xing Shen Zhuang, Sheng Zheng Gong, Foundation Training Forum

[Chanwu]

I understand, Wudangspirit, but I believe my post is important to help people find their way, and take other things into consideration, other than the words from the people involved in "traditionaltao" as they are biased.

 

It's not meant for "Bashing". I don't believe I will "win" an argument - I am posting so that people who are thinking about joining them, think one extra time and consider my perspective. Surely, truth is subjective, I don't believe anyone in "traditionaltao" is teaching to hurt others.

 

This post will naturally not be pleasant for this group, but they are making a lot of claims that I cannot, and will not, just stand by and watch without replying.

 

As I said, I have read a lot on this forum before posting here, and I have done my research and gotten MY view of things.

 

Take my subjective advice and research as you will, I do raise valid concerns and I know that this will affect people who are thinking of joining this group.

[sunshine]

I am curious Chanwu:

 

tell me the claims you have trouble with and maybe I am able to give a sensible response.

 

 

Harry

[wudangspirit]

Chanwu,

 

Point taken. I am always pro "truth". We are all, I think, searching for "truth" whatever that may be.

I guess you just want people to think about it before they join.

Sunshine has a point too. What problems do you have with their claims? what claims do they make?

 

 

 

I understand, Wudangspirit, but I believe my post is important to help people find their way, and take other things into consideration, other than the words from the people involved in "traditionaltao" as they are biased.

 

It's not meant for "Bashing". I don't believe I will "win" an argument - I am posting so that people who are thinking about joining them, think one extra time and consider my perspective. Surely, truth is subjective, I don't believe anyone in "traditionaltao" is teaching to hurt others.

 

This post will naturally not be pleasant for this group, but they are making a lot of claims that I cannot, and will not, just stand by and watch without replying.

 

As I said, I have read a lot on this forum before posting here, and I have done my research and gotten MY view of things.

 

Take my subjective advice and research as you will, I do raise valid concerns and I know that this will affect people who are thinking of joining this group.

[Chanwu]

Their claims? If the teachings are good or not? I believe they have a lot to teach, but their approach raise many concerns regarding me, I have described these above.

 

Anyone who wants to reach these levels, anyone seeking enlightenment need only to relax, concentrate/meditate and breathe correctly.

 

I have a friend who has meditated 6 years, he's a Christian but he believes he can get closer to god by meditation. He is describing very high level (key) experiences only by doing this for one hour each day for 6 years. Don't for one second believe that this isn't a natural process that you can undertake anytime you wish, you just need dedication and to enjoy every minute of your time in meditation.

 

You don't need to spend all your savings for this, I want that to be perfectly clear.

 

 

 

Chanwu,

 

Point taken. I am always pro "truth". We are all, I think, searching for "truth" whatever that may be.

I guess you just want people to think about it before they join.

Sunshine has a point too. What problems do you have with their claims? what claims do they make?

Edited February 1, 2008 by Chanwu

[gendao]

Soon my membership there is ended because they will now charge 250 USD to allow you to even be in the forum as a spectator. All you can do as a spectator is to get news updates regarding training.

So, even people who are members now will be banned if they don't pony up $250?

 

That is quite a large sum to pay for forum access - which is generally free..

 

While I understand teachings cost money, I have to admit that such fees also seem rather exorbitant to me and have given me some reservations about the marketing of that path. Although the path itself may well be very powerful and legitimate. But who knows, maybe I'm just not "serious" enough yet?

[sunshine]

>>Anyone who wants to reach these levels, anyone seeking enlightenment need only to relax, concentrate/meditate and breathe correctly.<<

 

See Chanwu. You put that out AS IF it were THE truth. To me it is just a simple belief and as simply: I just don'T share it. We can raise the question who of us is right, but we hardly can answer it in a definite way. I sure believe that there is an objective truth, but at the level I am I can not say if my personal truth is closer to it than yours or not.

 

>>You don't need to spend all your savings for this, I want that to be perfectly clear.<<

 

Nobody ever claimed that!

 

>I have a friend who has meditated 6 years, he's a Christian but he believes he can get closer to god by meditation.<

 

Some already know the story, but I want to repeat it:

at one seminar a girl asked during the question and answer section:

"Why do I need all this. I believe and trust in God that I am saved." (or similar)

 

and David answered: "You are lucky if you have that strong of a believe. In that case you are right." (or similar as taken from memory)

 

All others though...

 

>>So, even people who are members now will be banned if they don't pony up $250? <<

 

not quite. But it does not have to be outlined here as it does not really belong here I feel.

 

>>That is quite a large sum to pay for forum access - which is generally free..<<

 

"generally free". Don't you think there are groups out there who have "closed-parties" without ever having been public? The public forum is simply getting less public and more private. Instead the new webpage is online now with some information shared. Am I happy about the change? I have my troubles but it simply is not up to me and I understand the reasons for the steps being taken.

 

>>While I understand teachings cost money, I have to admit that such fees also seem rather exorbitant to me and have given me some reservations about the marketing of that path.<<

 

Well. The sad aspect is that the impression exists - and I fully sense why - that it is a "marketed path".

 

 

Harry

[Chanwu]

I never write as if I have THE truth, as the saying goes - "there's as many truths as there are people", I am extremely flexible with my beliefs and views. I don't take offense if you would make opposite claims, it is your right to do so.

 

I have aired my feelings about it all. I have read through countless pages from one very active forum participant in particular, one who goes through great lengths to make himself heard and his views heard. This is a direct response to the very hardlined approach this man has.

 

I believe they have given in to their ego, this is my view, and this is not "the old way" to do things. The "Old way" isn't a secret one, it's one that is earned, not through who can afford it, but through dedication.

 

That is my view and all I wanted with this post is to get out both sides of the coin, on the net.

[sunshine]

>>I have aired my feelings about it all. I have read through countless pages from one very active forum participant in particular, one who goes through great lengths to make himself heard and his views heard. This is a direct response to the very hardlined approach this man has.<<

 

Then it is a pretty personal thing... and allow me to be honest: to air your feelings the moment you "seem" to get excluded is a little... hmmmmmmmmmm...

 

>>I believe they have given in to their ego, this is my view, and this is not "the old way" to do things. The "Old way" isn't a secret one, it's one that is earned, not through who can afford it, but through dedication.<<

 

"They" is pretty far fetching especially as it is not clear whom you actually mean. And believe me. A lot of us can not really afford it but are actually VERY dedicated and thereby work on making it possible...!!! The old way clearly is a secret one in many instances... taking your example: How much is "dedication" in order for "the old way" to open?

 

>>That is my view and all I wanted with this post is to get out both sides of the coin, on the net.<<

 

Your view is welcome, just that I think everyone who knows of one side should naturally consider the other...

 

 

Harry

PS: got to go to bed now...

[Buddy]

It will come as no shock to anyone that I feel this sort of caveat emptor is commendable.

[Chanwu]

>>I have aired my feelings about it all. I have read through countless pages from one very active forum participant in particular, one who goes through great lengths to make himself heard and his views heard. This is a direct response to the very hardlined approach this man has.<<

 

Then it is a pretty personal thing... and allow me to be honest: to air your feelings the moment you "seem" to get excluded is a little... hmmmmmmmmmm...

 

 

Oh, this is not because I have been excluded, I never intended to join, nor did I do more than just listen to the conversations on the foundation forum. This training is far from exclusive, anyone who wish to attend the courses can go - do they seem to be selective to you? They are not. The only thing that makes it exclusive is the money involved, and the prices above are just for the courses, you need someplace to live and something to eat while there too. And flight tickets. You're in for a lot of spending.

 

I feel that a lot of people will be mislead by all this and believe this is their only shot at a deeper spiritual life - it's right in front of everyone to pick up and start experiencing. I am afraid that many will live on noodles for 2 years to spend hard earned money on something they would eventually attain with dedication, anyways.

 

I don't mention full names or anything here because I don't want this to become directed to someone in particular.

 

I think the approach needs to change a bit, but hey - who am I to judge someone for how they do BUSINESS?

 

According to a man in the forum, he said "I don't care about the cost, apparently _business_ is good. I am only happy this is available to us through the masters." or something like that.

 

Yes, it's a business.

 

When you are working with spiritual matters and call yourself a "master" or "teacher" there is a very important factor: you can BE a teacher, as in it's not your profession, you ARE a teacher, or you can WORK as one, and make it your JOB.

 

It's a different thing.

 

And of course, again, this is my view of things.

 

I invite you to think otherwise - my intention here is to raise a little flag of warning as to what people are in for and that, in my experience, it is not needed at all because all it takes is dedication on your part.

 

Meditate an hour every day, breathe deep abdominal breathing, develop concentration/focus/blankness of mind and things will come to you, you will change on a very deep level, and after a couple of years even more so.

 

If you want to spend 10000 dollars to learn these basics you are of course free to do so :-)

 

Oh here's another good resource, and be sure to check the ones I provided above if you are looking for more knowledge:

http://www.kundaliniawakeningprocess.com/

 

 

I found it in the foundation forum - the guy got banned for simply asking questions regarding the approach of the group and the money involved, he's one of the teachers there. Worth checking out imo.

Edited February 2, 2008 by Chanwu

[Buddy]

I looked at the guy you called "the real deal." I always wonder why these guys need to prove themselves with magic tricks.

[Chanwu]

I looked at the guy you called "the real deal." I always wonder why these guys need to prove themselves with magic tricks.

 

 

I read a story about him in another forum, plus his testimonials on his site are convincing... if you refer to the dollar bill through the pen I do believe in such things.

 

A friend of mine have direct experience with being thrown by chi force alone, so a bill through a pen is not so hard for me to believe in.

 

We all come from different places and have different views based on that.

 

I take stories from people I trust as personal confirmation.

 

Like when my life partner talks about haunted houses and such, I don't even need to question the experiences when confronted with them.

 

That's another story.

 

I do believe Robert Peng is the real deal... maybe I'll book a session with him in the future and report here ;-)

Edited February 2, 2008 by Chanwu

[Oolong Rabbit]

Chanwu,

 

No need to defend yourself friend. Your points were well reasoned, well expressed and respectful. The modus operandi of this group and their representatives is to try and nullify your points with sophistry, rhetoric and spin doctoring. Have you noticed how Harry has subtly made you into the "bad guy" and tried to put you on the defensive with his comment:

 

Then it is a pretty personal thing... and allow me to be honest: to air your feelings the moment you "seem" to get excluded is a little... hmmmmmmmmmm...

 

This is to change the subject, so that it's not about them anymore. It's now about you. His next manoeuvre will be to make the whole thread into a debate about the epistomology of knowledge and the nature of "Truth". Oh wait, he has already done that:

 

See Chanwu. You put that out AS IF it were THE truth. To me it is just a simple belief and as simply: I just don'T share it. We can raise the question who of us is right, but we hardly can answer it in a definite way. I sure believe that there is an objective truth, but at the level I am I can not say if my personal truth is closer to it than yours or not.

 

Now there is no point in even debating the subject, because who can really know "truth" anyhow. It's all relative, although maybe the "masters" are much closer to such a thing. Just trust in them, and trust in the wisdom of David because truth is beyond our ability to grasp.

 

Harry, I am calling bullshit.

[Buddy]

Are you channeling me?

 

Chan,

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bc26cBkBxpM&feature=related

 

[Chanwu]

Are you channeling me?

 

Chan,

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bc26cBkBxpM&feature=related

 

 

 

Yeah clearly it's done by using your index finger. But lets leave Robert Peng out of this thread and keep to main topic please :-)

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Chan

 

I think maybe David is charging alot of money so he can stay in China to keep learning and paying for accomidation and spending money. I have been a member of there forum for a long time and it all sounds fasinating i just dont think it should be so much money to learn. I also feel that there probably wont be so much different to what i already know or do anyway.

 

I was invited to go to the Australian seminar but its so expansive and it isnt what is taught as Lei Shan Do its other stuff, but i only wanted to see what this group does as i have my own path and practices.

 

All can be attained through proper meditation and energy cultivation i dont believe you have to kill or sacrafice a bull or chicken, burn turtles though.

 

WYG

[dunbar]

i've been a member of david verdesi's forum for several months and it is full of information you can't get anywhere else. the guy is a tu di disciple of wang liping and close student of john chang; he has reached the level four of the lei shan dao...

 

intelligent people can decide for themselves whether he is an exceptional person or not and if what he offers has value... just read through the website, it's got sound information and is presented in a mature and responsible way, and it's free...

 

my experience is basically very positive at the forum and i felt the money for membership to the forum was well worth it... i really don't think it's worth being angry about. either your drawn to it or not, simple.

 

PS it was clear that the website was just for members to view... man that is really disrespectful to post it all over some other forum... shows a lot about your character to pull something like that...

[Wun Yuen Gong]

I agree David has knowledge and can also write very well and this helps bring in more students, i feel that 250 is too expansive especially living in Australia with the currency as well the money spent on visiting David and his teachers in euro's will cost the aussies alot more.

 

If i was rich i wouldnt think twice to visiting china ive been there 6 times already and to meet Wang Li Ping would be an honor for me. Im not really interested in learning there system though just to witness and experiecne the chi abilties is what im after.

 

WYG

[mwight]

I agree David has knowledge and can also write very well and this helps bring in more students, i feel that 250 is too expansive especially living in Australia with the currency as well the money spent on visiting David and his teachers in euro's will cost the aussies alot more.

 

If i was rich i wouldnt think twice to visiting china ive been there 6 times already and to meet Wang Li Ping would be an honor for me. Im not really interested in learning there system though just to witness and experiecne the chi abilties is what im after.

 

WYG

 

 

Verdesi has the market cornered, and he knows it. He charges accordingly. Its simple economics. I wonder if he ever achieves enlightenment if he will drop his prices a little. Just a thought.

[Smile]

You have 3 options:

-you are drawn to it, pay the money and dedicate all your free time to training.

-you are not drawn to it and you move on with your life.

-you are drawn to it but have no money, so you get a part time job to earn the extra cost because you have dedicated your life to a Daoist path and are serious about it.

 

Complaining how expensive the teachings are is like going to a Ferrari dealership and crying about how you can't afford a fancy sports car. It's very common for spiritual seekers to think that somehow because it's about spiritual cultivation, they are entitled to teachings for free or a very low cost.

 

There are good options available for poor seekers. Zen, Vipassana, Kunlun are excellent practices and they don't cost much.

Take care, Max