Several questions about practicing taoism

[Raindancer]

I will invest in two translations of the I Ching (Wilhelm and Huang) and use the translation available online of the Chuang Tzu to start with. If I have any questions I'm sure I will find answers on this forum, you've all been to great help and I am very thankful 

 

 

I agree that those seem to be very different from each other, ernobe. I will make sure to not just read, but to study what I read to make sure I avoid misunderstanding the true meaning. I'm sure this forum will be to great help with that!

 

I will keep that in mind, Apech. I know very little about the I Ching so I might understand things a bit better once I've started studying it. I have yet to learn all these words used, yaoci, gua and bagua, but I think I know what you mean.

 

Again, thank you everyone!

[wandelaar]

@ Raindancer

 

I don't think you can decide beforehand which translations would be best for you. As you study the texts you will automatically find out which texts work best for you. It all depends on what you want from it.

 

Taoism in its different forms and applications is a huge subject. It will be impossible to study let alone practice it all. As was already said before: know when to stop.

Edited July 30, 2018 by wandelaar

[Raindancer]

I'm just trying to find somewhere to start, these books are not available at the library on this island and I prefer reading/studying from books.

 

I know I will not be able to practice it all, but I want to be aware.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Raindancer

[wandelaar]

Yes - I also prefer books. Here are some basic approaches to translations:

 

- Literal translations

- Literary translations

- Translations focusing on applications

- Scientific translations with information on philological issues

- Free translations presenting a certain perspective on the text

- Translations with lots of added (ancient) commentary

- Translations with added art work

 

So it will depend on what you want from your study of the text which translations would be best. In making a choice it helps to read the commentaries en reviews on book shops and sites. It is also often possible to read a part of the book as preview. In this way your chances of buying the most appropriate translations will improve.

[Raindancer]

Thank you for the tips/information! I will take a look at that, even though I'm not exactly sure what I would prefer. I would like the texts to be translated as clearly and accurately as possible, but without losing the "soul" (not sure how to describe it), I guess commentary might be both interesting and helpful. Yeah, I will look at that.

[Lost in Translation]

2 minutes ago, Raindancer said:

I would like the texts to be translated as clearly and accurately as possible, but without losing the "soul"

 

That's a difficult task. Even translating from Chinese to Chinese is not easy, given the period of time that has elapsed and the changes in meaning of symbols and underlying culture. You end up with cryptic statements such as "the perfect square has no corners."  Meditation is your friend when this happens. Sometimes the texts act like koans and can't really be translated. The meaning (if there was one) is lost in time...

[Raindancer]

That's why I said "as possible", which I guess means that it can be quite different from the original text. As long as it stays true to the original meaning I think it's good enough. Are some texts really so cryptic that the meaning is lost? That's unfortunate, but not too surprising, given that the texts are very old.

[wandelaar]

The Tao Te Ching is a difficult work, and I doubt whether the entire book was understood even in ancient times.

[Lost in Translation]

13 minutes ago, Raindancer said:

Are some texts really so cryptic that the meaning is lost?

 

I don't know, and I suspect neither does anyone else. It's just something to keep in mind as a possibility.

[Raindancer]

That's true. Even if I would love to understand everything, there is a slight charm with things that are hard to understand (or even impossible to understand).

[AugustGreig]

On 7/29/2018 at 8:45 AM, rideforever said:

In my opinion the fundamental practice of Taoism is sitting meditation similar to Zen, but without the tension of Zen.
Becoming one with the breathing, merging with the breathing, at the dantien.
You are inside the dantien, meaning that as you sit you are not inside your forehead but inhabit your lower belly.
Resting as the belly.
Patiently dissolving, resting down from the belly.
Later, once more present in the belly, more calm, then  merging down into the Earth.
On the exhale descending down through the bottom of the bucket (dantien).
And merging with the ground of being.

The chi vital force flows upwards from the ground of being, into the dantien and then upwards into creation, then on exhalation back down; this is the rhythm of breathing.
In this practice, firstly we become one with the vital force chi, becoming one with the breathing.
Later we flow down into the source, returning.
Descending to the absolute ground.

 

It is also important to have period of just sitting just being non action. 
Meditate 5 minutes non action and  then 5 minutes with gentle guidance as above, and repeat and so on.

 

The 2nd practice and different practice is the Secret of the Golden Flower, which is at the mid-eyebrow point.  Beginning with concentration there but later surrendering flowing merging as the presence there.

The truth is inside you, that must always come first before anyone else's ideas.

This has helped me tremendously and ended my confusion. I've been studying The Secret of the Golden Flower, but have also been told I need to be sinking my light down instead of expanding it from my head, so to speak. If I try to force it down, it doesn't work.

 

Can I practice both, or should I just focus on one? I'm 40 days in BTW, doing a 30 minute Qigong routine every morning followed by 40 minutes of meditation. I'm able to reach a point where distant thoughts come and go, more like intention and awareness of what's happening, and I see lights and tunnels and colors and sometimes other things.

[rideforever]

40 minutes ago, AugustGreig said:

This has helped me tremendously and ended my confusion. I've been studying The Secret of the Golden Flower, but have also been told I need to be sinking my light down instead of expanding it from my head, so to speak. If I try to force it down, it doesn't work.

 

Can I practice both, or should I just focus on one? I'm 40 days in BTW, doing a 30 minute Qigong routine every morning followed by 40 minutes of meditation. I'm able to reach a point where distant thoughts come and go, more like intention and awareness of what's happening, and I see lights and tunnels and colors and sometimes other things.

 

When you say both, I assume you mean the breathing-dantien practice and the GF-mid-eyebrow practice ?

Well you should have a primary practice for your meditation, make that your priority and try to go deeper into it every day for the full 100 days.
Then near the end for 10 mins you can add in a gentle exploration of the GF-mid-eyebrow practice, in a gentle way, whilst maintaining the primary practice, gentle adding it to your primary practice.   And continue like that for the 100 days.   Afterwards you can decide yourself what is best.
The breathing-dantien practice, you should BE down there.  Meaning identity is down in the belly, surrendering merging with the primal void below, gently settling down and down.  Letting go of yourself.
As this part of you becomes natural and permanent, then when you work with the eyebrow centre it will be much easier as you are very grounded and as the eyebrow centre opens it will be steady and it can naturally settle down as well.  As the eyebrow centre opens you will eventually be seated in the middle of conscious intelligence you will take your seat there and thoughts will happen with you and not doing their own thing.   But this is a large change, and it is good to have a lot of ground down in the belly.   Prioritise the ground which is its own journey.
It is good to have a let it flow-non doing-freewheeling period interspersed with the guiding periods.  5 mins on, 5 mins off.
And of course you are to become awake, sensing existence and not be too technical.

 

[AugustGreig]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

 

When you say both, I assume you mean the breathing-dantien practice and the GF-mid-eyebrow practice ?

Well you should have a primary practice for your meditation, make that your priority and try to go deeper into it every day for the full 100 days.
Then near the end for 10 mins you can add in a gentle exploration of the GF-mid-eyebrow practice, in a gentle way, whilst maintaining the primary practice, gentle adding it to your primary practice.   And continue like that for the 100 days.   Afterwards you can decide yourself what is best.
The breathing-dantien practice, you should BE down there.  Meaning identity is down in the belly, surrendering merging with the primal void below, gently settling down and down.  Letting go of yourself.
As this part of you becomes natural and permanent, then when you work with the eyebrow centre it will be much easier as you are very grounded and as the eyebrow centre opens it will be steady and it can naturally settle down as well.  As the eyebrow centre opens you will eventually be seated in the middle of conscious intelligence you will take your seat there and thoughts will happen with you and not doing their own thing.   But this is a large change, and it is good to have a lot of ground down in the belly.   Prioritise the ground which is its own journey.
It is good to have a let it flow-non doing-freewheeling period interspersed with the guiding periods.  5 mins on, 5 mins off.
And of course you are to become awake, sensing existence and not be too technical.

 

This, as I'm sure you know, is incredibly helpful. If I just let go, I go through one of those tunnels I see and then it feels like consciousness expands before me. But I'm not grounded yet, and that's what I was worried about. Should I bring my intention back to the Dan then when this happens? In TSotGF, there is an image of a man ripping his belly open with a little man sitting in there, so I presumed that I should be doing what you talk about. But when I try to guide my awareness there, I lose what I had going on between my eyes. Is that okay? That's my real question, is that what I should be doing?

 

You may have already answered. I guess I could do 5 minutes aiming at the tan Tien and 5 minutes letting go... But how do I judge time? Also, Qigong has helped tremendously with grounding. I'm starting to really improve my balance and really improving moving from the Dan Tien. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[Robert]

Hello,

Yang, Jwing Ming has written an new book Dao de Jing a Qigong Interpretation that is vey good if you like or are familiar with his style.

[rideforever]

Just to reiterate the GF practices include working with 2 areas, the belly breathing (BB) at the dantien, and the mid-eyebrow centre (MEC).

 

Working With Multiple Centres 
Why when working with the MEC do you lose the BB ?   Simply because the BB has not become permanent yet.  Must work more on it.   It is important not to divide your work 50/50, or you will keep losing the other centre and get nowhere.   
Better to work 80/20 on the BB/MEC.
Stabilise your recognition of the BB and add the MEC work on top.

 

Why Start With BB ?
The MEC once actualized will fully stabilize the mind and you will find your soul which is the ultimate goal of the GF.   However MEC is so close to the wild human mind that it cannot be approached directly.   Firstly you need to find a deep stability in BB and use this as foundation for further work up at the MEC.

 

How To Meditate On The Centres
In the GF there is a guide for working with both areas.   Follow that carefully.  However you might like to add the following rhythm during meditation practice :
10 mins : guide the practice according to the GF instructions
10 mins : release th guidance (effort) and enter relaxed naturalness with the centre
10 mins : merge with the centre so that the rest of the world disappears, try to submerge yourself in the being of the centre

All these things become more clear as you practice.

 

Recognition
The work is not just energetic or concentration.   Permanence of your attainment actually comes from Recognition.   That means you feel your identity wake up in the centre and that identity becomes permanent in the centre.   
Hence it says that the little man wakes up in the belly ... well this means as you walk down the street you feel that you are in the belly and see from the belly, rather than from your head.  It happens quite naturally, you suddenly feel you are in the belly.  It is important to maintain that sense of identity.
Likewise in the MEC.

Edited November 15, 2018 by rideforever