What is the most straight forward path to enlightenment

[falcon]

Hello bums,

 

Given that there are no short cuts, some paths tend to be a little less vague, covered in scripture, history, dogma, etc.

 

Quite a vague question to ask, but as most may agree, all paths lead towards the same realization. I was hoping to get sum Bum perspectives on what some of you may think (or believe) by your own knowledge and experience, to be the most straight forward path. A lot of room for interpretation, but given your answer perhaps you could fill that interpretation with your own 2 cents as to why.

 

Feel free to comment.

 

 

[rene]

The most straight forward path is to stop seeking it.

The more you chase it - the farther away it will go.

 

[Starjumper]

25 minutes ago, falcon said:

but as most may agree, all paths lead towards the same realization.

 

Disagree.  Um, and realization is the wrong word to use with enlightenment.

 

Some paths meander around the foorhills of the mountain and drop you off at a cliff or where some other path begins.  Some other paths do go up the mountain, but have lots of switchbacks and tourist cafes along the way, and they drop you off way before the summit.  Far fewer are the hidden paths which start at the base of the mountain and take you straight to the top, and this is what those are:

 

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Starjumper

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, falcon said:

no short cuts

 

Hi falcon,

 

So - no straight forward path.

Period.

 

- LimA

Edited July 31, 2018 by Limahong
Correct errors.

[dwai]

1 hour ago, falcon said:

Hello bums,

 

Given that there are no short cuts, some paths tend to be a little less vague, covered in scripture, history, dogma, etc.

 

Quite a vague question to ask, but as most may agree, all paths lead towards the same realization. I was hoping to get sum Bum perspectives on what some of you may think (or believe) by your own knowledge and experience, to be the most straight forward path. A lot of room for interpretation, but given your answer perhaps you could fill that interpretation with your own 2 cents as to why.

 

Feel free to comment.

 

 

 

 

[Marblehead]

Walk, don't run.

 

In other words, don't forget to live while you are walking your path.

 

[Limahong]

5 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Walk, don't run.

 

 

[Marblehead]

I figured you wouldn't bypass that opportunity I offered you.

 

[Fa Xin]

I’d say the straightest path is your own path... but don’t take my word for it. 

[silent thunder]

for me... the path within

 

as within, so without

as below, above

[Marblehead]

2 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

for me... the path within

 

as within, so without

as below, above

As left, so right?

 

[Limahong]

14 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

for me... the path within

as within, so without

as below, above

 

12 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

As left, so right?

 

Is when Yinny and myself are in deep intimate embrace as intended in Nature:

 

[doc benway]

4 hours ago, falcon said:

Quite a vague question to ask, but as most may agree, all paths lead towards the same realization.

This statement could make for a good debate but I don't want to derail the thread.

 

 

4 hours ago, falcon said:

I was hoping to get sum Bum perspectives on what some of you may think (or believe) by your own knowledge and experience, to be the most straight forward path. A lot of room for interpretation, but given your answer perhaps you could fill that interpretation with your own 2 cents as to why.

I'll bite -

I think one of the more straightforward paths one can follow is Dzogchen.

The basis of Dzogchen is that there is nothing to be done to achieve realization, you are already there, you're just distracted.

It is simply a matter of resting body, speech, and mind enough to recognize the truth; and then stabilizing that realization so that it can be a part of every waking, sleeping, and dying moment. 

It's not at all easy, it's not for everyone, but it is very straightforward.

[Gerard]

Enjoy life!

[Aetherous]

4 hours ago, falcon said:

but as most may agree, all paths lead towards the same realization

There are different types of enlightenment, and also different realizations.

Which one are you into?

[Lost in Translation]

[silent thunder]

56 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

As left, so right?

 

Not so much as I'm speaking of the concept, but I guess, if applied to forms in animals and most organisms yea that does seem to be the case.

 

My intended meaning is more experiential... awareness and beingness based though.

 

The universe of form reflects from micro to macro.  The curvature of my ear is the same ratio as the spiral of galaxy arms and the seed patterns in sunflowers.  To gain access to the great mysteries of the external... do I need to travel to the other galaxies?  Or does the same tao/anchor/source reside within my own form as well? 

 

In my experience yes, definitely.  So for me, the most direct access point to the mystery of the experience of the Unity of All... lies right here within.  *thumps chest*

 

As I experience what lies within 'me', my awareness, that which seems to lie outside of 'me' is reflected continually and brings deeper understanding experience of the unity, reflected nature and connectedness of all forms to each other, which results in a living awareness, a living experiential beingness of unity with all that is and all that is not. 

 

Whether this fits the bill of enlightenment I have no idea.  Lately that word has pretty much lost its usefulness for me, too many layered and subjective/personal meanings to be used effectively any longer.  Like that other term God... ugh,  how to ever know what someone else means when they speak it?  

 

But for me, unity and connectedness seem to convey that which I understand as enlightenment or awakening.

 

Among the non form, the reflection is even more direct and simple to observe... emptiness is emptiness on every level that I have encountered .

 

Lately I experience my process of internal awareness exploration as an unfolding.   Or like an onion, unpeeling.  Unpeeling layers of illusory beliefs, assumptions, monkey mind, subjective notions of should and should not... When peeling the last layer, what is revealed at the center of an onion?  Emptiness is revealed.  This emptiness within, is reflected everywhere in the previously seeming 'without'.  Unity consciousness flows in through this experience, awareness of the profound inter=connectedness resonates with unified awareness and bliss.  The experience of it is vivid, clear and vital.  But is still readily fogged over by lesser detailed side paths of monkey mind and life in the human shaped world.  So far it's not full abiding, but it's a nice window that often opens when I'm quiet inside... and the view is spectacular.

[falcon]

 

 

Silent Thunder thank you for taking the time to explain your recollections.

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

This emptiness within, is reflected everywhere in the previously seeming 'without'.  Unity consciousness flows in through this experience, awareness of the profound inter=connectedness resonates with unified awareness and bliss.  The experience of it is vivid, clear and vital.  But is still readily fogged over by lesser detailed side paths of monkey mind and life in the human shaped world.  So far it's not full abiding, but it's a nice window that often opens when I'm quiet inside... and the view is spectacular.

If you don't mind me asking what particular (meditative) practices do you commit to?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rene]

2 hours ago, steve said:

I think one of the more straightforward paths one can follow is Dzogchen.

The basis of Dzogchen is that there is nothing to be done to achieve realization, you are already there, you're just distracted.

It is simply a matter of resting body, speech, and mind enough to recognize the truth; and then stabilizing that realization so that it can be a part of every waking, sleeping, and dying moment.

 

Steve, hi (-:

 

If there is any path that may lead to this, what you describe might be the most effective - because it moves from the complex to the elegant simplicity. I especially like this: "..and then stabilizing that realization so that it can be a part of every waking, sleeping, and dying moment."  It's what I call "Both, same time".

 

warmest regards

[falcon]

 

Hi Aetherous,

 

2 hours ago, Aetherous said:

There are different types of enlightenment, and also different realizations.

Which one are you into?

 

Good question. I left this open to interpretation to see what kind of responses I would get.

 

But anything close to or similar to the enlightenment of buddhahood. That is to end the cycle of karma, realizing the emptiness of inherent existence, achieving the diamond body empowered with the 10 powers and 4 fearlessnesses.

 

For my sake, I'm interested in attaining selflessness and maintaining innermost awareness as described in dzogchen. It gets messy when trying to relate different realizations of different paths, but you could also say comparatively becoming one with all that is, the source, tao, do I dare say god?

 

 

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

7 hours ago, falcon said:

Hello bums,

 

Given that there are no short cuts, some paths tend to be a little less vague, covered in scripture, history, dogma, etc.

 

Quite a vague question to ask, but as most may agree, all paths lead towards the same realization. I was hoping to get sum Bum perspectives on what some of you may think (or believe) by your own knowledge and experience, to be the most straight forward path. A lot of room for interpretation, but given your answer perhaps you could fill that interpretation with your own 2 cents as to why.

 

Feel free to comment.

 

 

It's like King of the Hill - if someone has a "straight path" everyone else around them will freak out so much and put all their effort into trying to drag that person back down to the bottom of the hill. So if you are trying to learn what the straight path is - you are going to find it difficult to see this person who knows the straight path since he/she will be covered by the mob trying to pull him/her back to the bottom of the hill. You will instead see this mob of confusion - and it will be called "thedaobums" website. haha.

 

[falcon]

 

Hi Rene,

4 minutes ago, rene said:

 

Steve, hi (-:

 

If there is any path that may lead to this, what you describe might be the most effective - because it moves from the complex to the elegant simplicity. I especially like this: "..and then stabilizing that realization so that it can be a part of every waking, sleeping, and dying moment."  It's what I call "Both, same time".

 

warmest regards

I was just about to comment on this too! I love the simplicity and effectiveness Dzogchen entails. It is known as the doctrine free from exertion, the great completeness.

 

I'm a little distraught however, because from what I have picked up on about it is that the realization of rigpa cannot be first be introduced without a qualified lama. 

 

However, I am skeptical of this claim because we all inherently have buddhahood within us "so they all say" 

 

Steve, Care to bite again?

3 hours ago, steve said:

I'll bite

 

 

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

Quote

do I dare say god?

 By chance - if you read Karen Armstrong's book "The History of God" - she does not even give the ETYMOLOGY of the word! Too funny. This is how deep our ideologies go.

But if you do consider the word God as etymology - what do you find? It has the same root as Brahman - both are from Bull.

Quote

The Germanic Gott and the English God come from another Indo-European root, Go, which surprisingly means "the bull".

 

p. 49, Gods of Love and Ecstasy: The Traditions of Shiva and Dionysus by Alain Danielou.

 

Suddenly you wonder if your "straight forward path" question has gotten misdirected! How could this possibly be pointing to a "straight path."?

But you question appears to belie your "bias" - with Buddhism as a reform religion of Brahmanism, just as Christianity was a reform religion of Abrahamism.

Too funny!

And so you consider "Jnana yoga" to be the straight path? Without realizing that it relied on the caste system? haha. But this is the great assumption of Western Buddhism, isn't it.

Can you sit in full lotus for example?

As Vivekananda points out - Jnana Yoga is the most difficult yoga. Sure it may be the "straight" path - but - for example Ramana Maharshi went 9 years in samadhi, taking just one teaspoon of food a day, and he refused to see his own Mom, when she showed up. The traditional Brahmin priest training requires 3 days of purification if EYE CONTACT is made with a female. Such are the requirements of the "straight path" of Jnana yoga. haha.

Westerners are easily fooled - but these are the days of Postmodern Global enlightenment right!

Now back to your God comment - when the Tibetan monks fled into India - guess what happened?

They all got this stomach bacteria that is not found in Tibet - why? Because the bacteria is from Wheat monocultural farming that spread into India (again God means Bull, as in plow-based wheat monocultural farming).

 

So how you gonna have your Straight Path now? haha.

 

[Aetherous]

14 minutes ago, falcon said:

But anything close to or similar to the enlightenment of buddhahood. That is to end the cycle of karma, realizing the emptiness of inherent existence, achieving the diamond body empowered with the 10 powers and 4 fearlessnesses.

 

For my sake, I'm interested in attaining selflessness and maintaining innermost awareness as described in dzogchen. It gets messy when trying to relate different realizations of different paths, but you could also say comparatively becoming one with all that is, the source, tao, do I dare say god?

 

Based on that, my opinion is that the most straightforward path is training under a reputable Tibetan lama...focusing on practice rather than on debates about anything or any other stuff, doing it by the book and not shirking any requirements. Do everything above and beyond.

[voidisyinyang]

Consider for example the book "Yogis of Ladakh" - as is noted - very few monks have the real Tummo abilities. And tummo is just the foundation of the real training! - and that book was from a while back. As Helena Norberg-Hodge notes - WEsternization has destroyed most of Ladakh very rapidly - aka "Little Tibet."

 

So maybe there is some tibetan monk somewhere with these abilities. I looked into joining a Tibetan monastery. But first of all you spend years just studying the material. My friend was financially supporting one monk - as he did his study work for years. Then he died suddenly - can't remember the cause - before he did any real meditation work. And now the monks all have cell phones, etc. with tons of Western distractions.

 

Like I said - this website is a great example. People on here claim celibacy is not necessary - and then post all sorts of low frequency cult type comments - and then readers are susceptible to such gaslighting manipulations. Then the moderators have no idea what's going on.

 

And you find the same problem even in Tibetan monasteries - or in say Bhutan or Thailand - lots of abusive scenarios.

But on the other hand - all I can say is "good luck."

I could give you positive information - but as I said - if I did - then a mob of people would clamor to pull me back down. haha.