Buddy Posted February 2, 2008 I'm gonna have to chew on this one a while. Good stuff. I've been equating it with the Sanskrit "Sanatana Dharma." Any thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted February 2, 2008 Interesting. Keep going with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted February 2, 2008 I like it very much. Since you've mentioned a bit about what Daoists believe about the Dao, you may want to mention the concept of wu wei. I think this is really a common belief among Daoists that one goes with rather than against the Dao and would have a role in a general introduction of Daoism if I were writing one. Just my $.02. I look forward to seeing more of your work. I plan to order a copy of your book on training manuals at some point - it looks interesting. Steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Procurator Posted February 3, 2008 Beyond that, it is hard to say for certain what Daoists think about the Dao. This is not quite correct. The texts contain definitions of Dao that are numerous, precise and to the point. They are opaque to the modern reader, yes. But that is a different matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Todd Posted February 3, 2008 Hi Brian, It seems that you are trying to set up a platform from which you might explore the broad specrum of what is called Daoism. The definition you give serves that purpose well, but I do not feel that it is accurate with regard to the Dao that is referred to in the Daodejing. First off, the Dao is not singular. The Dao is before singularity. (Chapter 42) Also, the Dao is not an order. It is not a theory. It does not explain things. It is not of the realm of knowledge. If it was any of those things, then it could be described. It could be given a name. Beyond the obvious Chapter 1, I would refer you to Chapter 21. The order aspect of the Dao might fall under Dao as an image, which is just inside of Dao as a thing. Inside of the image is a creature, and inside that is an essence, and inside that is a heart. I know, it doesn't make sense, but it points to one thing. Know further. Know deeper. Don't settle for any thing, or for anything just beyond things. What would Dao as a creature be like? Dao, the heart of the essence, has no qualities. Thats not to say that we can't explore Dao as a creature, or an image, or a thing. Thats fine, but if we don't know the heart of the essence, then it is vain to claim that we know anything. The heart of the essence is the basis of all our knowledge. All that said, I think there is a very good reason why the word Dao was chosen for this mystery. It is a direct pointer to the most simple teaching. Dao means path. Have any of us ever not been on a path? Have we ever stopped moving? What a wonderful joke. My two cents, of course. Todd (Sorry, I won't be able to continue this conversation for a couple weeks, or maybe a bit sooner if I decide to be irresponsible.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eric23 Posted February 3, 2008 I've read Alan Watts The Watercourse Way and think he had a pretty good grasp of the Tao. He says you can talk about what Tao does, describe it's effects, compare it to other things that are similar to it, but you can never really write a definition for it. Henrick's description of Tao in the introduction to his translation of the TTC is a perfect example. After reading it, you have a very good concept of Tao, but at no point did Henrick actually define Tao, he describes it in a metaphorical sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian L. Kennedy Posted February 4, 2008 Hi folks, thanks for the input. I appreciate you all taking the time to write. Xuesheng, thanks for reminding me about the wu wei aspect. I will include that as a separate "presumption", in the same sense that "te" ("virtue") is a slightly different concept from Dao. In a very rough sense "dao" is the thing and te and wu wei is how it operates in the world humans see. It is an interesting cross cultural problem, because I strongly suspect that as a white American born in the 1950s I am going to have trouble seeing the "Dao" in the same sense that a Han Chinese born in the early or middle part of Chinese history saw it. You see it with a lot of concepts that try and cross cultures; oftentimes they get "corrupted" or "twisted" somehow. I see it with criminal law concepts (I teach American criminal law in Taiwan) and with martial arts concepts. take care, Brian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
