Buddha Did Not Know

[Fa Xin]

22 hours ago, rideforever said:

The Lotus Sutra is quite amazing.  The Buddha gives a radical new presentation of the spiritual path.   

 

At one point 5,000 monks and Bodhisattvas leave in disgust.

 

 

 

Whats your take on the Heart Sutra? That one is my focus lately.

[rideforever]

5 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

Whats your take on the Heart Sutra? That one is my focus lately.

 

Shakyamuni Buddha like many teachers once he attained liberation was extremely happy and initially he taught that he was emptiness, nothing was real, nothing was to be done and so on, and this is what the heart sutra says.   But the Lotus sutra is from later in his life, there is addresses a vast group of monks, bodhisattvas, and other realised entities.   There he says that realised being come through diligent long-term practice to their tradition, and that they work patiently and tirelessly.

 

So I see the heart sutra as being from somebody who has not matured in his understanding, but with a beautiful spirit seeks to say something beautiful which the heart sutra is.   I believe that most teachers including Jesus, Osho, Krishnamurit, and many others, they go through the same phase of jubilation after liberation, but later as they mature they understand things better, for instance they start to understand that people are not "all free" and cannot "just wake up" and that they are not god.

 

If you are going to treat it like a devotional path then I suggest that when you chant it you throw yourself into the Sun, and try to do long hours of it and believe in it.

 

The development of a sincere intelligence, like the intelligence of a child or farmer, is one of the most critical factors.   And you must use this intelligence on the path.   If you try the devotional approach give it 100% commitment, and then after some time ask if it works.

 

Buddha says that realised beings come through many paths but whichever path full long-term commitment was given.

 

Although I am not a Buddhist scholar and find the material quite difficult to read because 90% of it is bragging about the million billion eons kalappas bodhisattvas .... and it is quite tiresome to extract his actual understanding and instructions.

 

My understanding is Soto Zen is the best path that is generally available.   

 

Spiritual knowledge has to be conveyed slowly carefully by excellent teachers sitting very close to you.  It is not easy to write anything useful on a forum.

 

But, as Buddha says in the Lotus Sutra, faith is critically important, faith that you are Real.   D.O and such philosophies come from a deep distrust of life, and wishing to be told that suicide intellectual or otherwise is just fine.   It is not fine.

You are real and part of a miracle that we call life.   Living on the coarse culture of Earth we are prey to terrible darkness and harshness, it is a difficult world.   Nevertheless you are Real, and can become a Buddha.   One must try to become, to become, to become.

 

When feeling the inner states, it can be of exceptional relief, and one might think that one is empty or has died or is God .... and that is okay, just continue and fall deeper into the mystery.   Practice diligently with faith, and precision.    Do not stop.

 

What I have seen is that in many traditions people have a vision of not existing, and of course this becomes an excuse to not practice to not check to not use intelligence, after all what for if you are dead.

Non-existence is the wrong word.    We find an existence at a deeper level that takes over our being.   Our old self fades away like a bad memory, and we emerge into the Light.    For the first time we have a real existence on the light-soul-spirit.

 

And Buddha says in the Lotus Sutra that ... "young" seekers need to be pressured and pushed into their practices because they do not really comprehend their suffering and danger.   Probably when people read that they think .... "oh I am beyond that".   But are you ?   Maybe you still need pressure and pushing, maybe you should seek that out, maybe your should willingly look for a situation of pressure because maybe you don't really understand the danger either.

 

And finally, in every sutra, Buddha says "and here is the final new and improved teaching".   5 years later he says the same thing in a new sutra, and again and again.

 

This reminds me of software development where you make many versions of software; you learn quickly not to use names like "NEW".   Because in 5 months time you will have yet another new version.   It is better to use Version 2, Version 3, and so on.

 

The Lotus Sutra is meant I believe for seekers who have gone deep into the path but need a wider more universal vision to free themselves more.

Edited August 12, 2018 by rideforever

[rideforever]

 

[Fa Xin]

Thanks for answering my question and sharing your views. 😊 I don’t do much debating on scriptures. But you raise some interesting points. It’s always unfolding isn’t it? We’re never really “done”. 😊

 

My experience has pointed to the “emptiness” experience, and it’s hard to deny such a thing once you’ve seen it. But I have no investment in emptiness, and have no desire to try and change your view. Cheers! 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Fa Xin

[ion]

I have difficulty with most of the sutras due to all kallapas, alpacas, koopa troopas, sand in the galaxy etc, too.

 

The diamond Sutra for instance was provably the most surprising thing I ever read. two paragraphs of teachings stretched out into several chapters.

 

the numbering things is simply to help remind people what it is they're supposed to remember, like the 4 truths, and 8 fold path. if your trying to remember that stuff it's helpful to count on your fingers if you got them all.

 

At this point I would suggest to anyone really interested in Buddha's teaching to read the verses of Nagarjuna, not the sutras. 

 

in fact reading Nagarjunas verses probably gives us a better idea of how Buddha spoke when he was alive.

 

There is also the teaching on te 4 noble truths and the 8 folks path which includes the teaching of consciousness arising/dependent origins of consciousness,  the five heaps and the body not having self etc.

 

There's very little religious mumbo jumbo in either of the texts but lots to contemplate, it's all stuff that expands in the mind.

 

Much better than the sutras if you're actually interested in stuff other than religious crap that might as well be Hinduism with all of its elaboration.

 

I actually find the whole framework used in the sutras as against the Buddha's teaching with all those religious stuff and extreme comparisons.

Edited August 18, 2018 by ion

[rideforever]

12 hours ago, ion said:

 

 

I will look up the Diamond Sutra.

 

I love Buddha and his journey and always think of it, however it has become quite a religion.   There are many Buddha's in India, great powerful teachers like Astavakra.   Wow I have done some very deep powerful light filled meditations listening to Astavakra.

 

In general mankind's spirituality involves just picking up the energy from the master and thereby sort of instinctively feeling what to do inside.

 

But actually all the words and explanations are very weak bunk and very little of practical use.

 

However I have met some teachers who give detailed instructions and once you see that .... the lights come on backstage at the show.

 

Many people read the Lotus Sutra hoping that just the reading will fix things.
But how many noticed that Buddha says that all the arhats and Bodhisattvas arrived where they are through great diligent detailed lengthy arduous work on their paths.
Most people don't notice such information.
Because there are the instructions.

 

Yah, it's particularly the alpacas that get me !!!!

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by rideforever

[rideforever]

12 hours ago, ion said:

 

 

10 mins of the Diamond Sutra later.

 

Well, it's just all the same.   Buddha just repeats that these marks or those marks are not signs of the Tathagata.
This is just useless rubbish.
Means nothing.
The truth is that those monks who got enlightened simply sat with him until they caught the light.
From time to time someone asked Buddha something and he replied with some rubbish which meant nothing.
Mostly he talked of the great merit great bodhisattva great service great god great hamburger.
Great anything, because that's what human monkeys like to be told.
You are good you are great just sit with me.

 

I think mankind must evolve beyond this crap. 

For a start we have to recognize the centres inside the body, this is what gets enlightened.
Buddha speaks generally he never talks of the inner structure or its relationship to enlightenment.
When Buddhists talk of love compassion heart it is more like aspiration or poetry.
But what of the heart chakra.
Er ... don't know.

Well you should know.

[rideforever]

What I have noticed recently is that many light beings higher beings .... from the stories and testimonies, also their knowledge is no different to buddhas.   It is all the same.
Meaning that many high beings although they are in realised states even very high states, have little technical understanding of what is happening which means their intelligence is lagging way behind their state.
Which is quite strange to see.
Basically we have to do it.   

[Mudfoot]

On 2018-08-19 at 12:38 PM, rideforever said:

 

10 mins of the Diamond Sutra later.

I didn't get neither the Lotus or the Diamond sutra myself, for some of the reason you have put forth. Others here find them profound and useful so it might be just me that is thick. 

 

Have you tried Satipathana Sutra? 

That is more of a manual, lots of training tips, maybe that is up your alley? 

 

Or, if you like to work with the energy body first and take insight later, there are some wonderful tantric work out there. 

 

And by all means the Daoist Canon, although that road will present other challanges. 

[rideforever]

1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

Have you tried Satipathana Sutra? 

 

In fact I was awakened in a minor way in previous incarnations - I know this circumstantially because of what I came in with.  I don't "remember" anything of past lives, but I can see that when I was born it was already there.
But after years of struggling and searching, I have now been with a teacher for about 7 years and he both transmitted consciousness to me in a face to face, and then gave me highly accurate technical guidance on what to do, as well as incredible inspiration, as well as orientation in this world - what it means and what to do, as well as great insight into existing spiritual traditions.

As for the Satipathana Sutra, all I can say is that inside I intuitively understand what I need and what I am looking for, no matter which tradition I am in.   For instance when I was practicing vipassana years back I had several large awakenings.  How ?  Firstly I worked hard listened carefully and tried very hard and long hours.   Secondly I knew that being a robot was not what it was about, it was about feeling being learning life light truth reality lightning, and so my inner feeling was not robotic at all.  It was inspired desperate religious patient and many things.   In other words I just really needed it really wanted it and did everything I could in every way to make the best of the retreats I was on.   It was very difficult sometimes, but there is nothing else to do anyway, soon we'll all be very quiet and under the ground.   Why not try and do the absolute best that you can.  Why not ?   Soon we will be relieved from duty anyhow.

 

 

[lifeforce]

"Let your mind be unattached, clinging to nothing" - The famous line from the Diamond Sutra which caused The Sixth Patriarch Huineng to awaken, could just as well have come from the mouth of Zhuangzi. In it I see no difference between Daoism and Buddhism. Maybe your current level of wisdom doesn't allow for an understanding of the Diamond Sutra. That's perfectly fine. We all find paths and teachings suited to us.