David Verdesi's credentials and research

[DentyDao]

I don't know why Sean Denty is so silent.

Sorry I didn't see this, I don't follow the TB board unless someone emails me generally these days.

 

Um, I honestly haven't inquired in great depth about David's research, but there is some info on the foundation forum. He published a few studies in China and did some consulting for Rochester University. Those are the ones that you might be able to look up. He is working on some research in Vienna, that one is pretty interesting; all the details are on the forum.

 

Some of the research is classified, like the stuff Wang Liping does researching people with special abilities for the government. He is considered the top expert in China on Qigong health and healing and does a great deal of work with cancer and aids patients. He also set up many of the standards that are now in place for qigong and TCM in general.

 

He teased us a little when we showed him some herbal prescriptions we had. He said we could ask any high government official, who is the best doctor in China and they would say Wang Liping. Then he told us all our herbs were basically a waste of money and we just need to Pan Zu (sit and meditate). I guess this is typical of the Northern School.

 

Sorry, I the research thing is not really my field or interest, next time I see David I'll ask him. David is a pretty remarkable guy, when he was like 14 or 15 he left Italy and became the apprentice of a Chinese kungfu master in Taiwan; the rest of the story is kind of one unbelievable adventure, so it probably better if I stay in my forum and keep quiet; these discussions usually just create endless gossip and bad feelings.

 

Peace, S

[Oolong Rabbit]

Sorry I didn't see this, I don't follow the TB board unless someone emails me generally these days.

 

Um, I honestly haven't inquired in great depth about David's research, but there is some info on the foundation forum. He published a few studies in China and did some consulting for Rochester University. Those are the ones that you might be able to look up. He is working on some research in Vienna, that one is pretty interesting; all the details are on the forum.

 

Pretty vague answers Sean. I am surprised you guys aren't more interested in this being his students and all. Can you explain why the PHD references were removed from the website? It does look odd to outsiders especially since Dr. and PHD was plastered all over the old forum.

 

Some of the research is classified, like the stuff Wang Liping does researching people with special abilities for the government. He is considered the top expert in China on Qigong health and healing and does a great deal of work with cancer and aids patients. He also set up many of the standards that are now in place for qigong and TCM in general.

 

Classified by the Chinese government, yet they let a westerner in on it?

 

He teased us a little when we showed him some herbal prescriptions we had. He said we could ask any high government official, who is the best doctor in China and they would say Wang Liping. Then he told us all our herbs were basically a waste of money and we just need to Pan Zu (sit and meditate). I guess this is typical of the Northern School.

 

Sorry, I the research thing is not really my field or interest, next time I see David I'll ask him. David is a pretty remarkable guy, when he was like 14 or 15 he left Italy and became the apprentice of a Chinese kungfu master in Taiwan; the rest of the story is kind of one unbelievable adventure, so it probably better if I stay in my forum and keep quiet; these discussions usually just create endless gossip and bad feelings.

 

Peace, S

 

Hmm, then when and how did he aquire his PHD if he left at 15? Have any of you guys ever met Wang Liping aside from David? There's a lot of things that don't really add up. You guys can get pissed off at people for asking these questions, but remarkable claims should have some hard proof to back them up. I think that's all Gamuret has asked for, but so far you guys have just presented fluff.

[DentyDao]

You guys can get pissed off at people for asking these questions, but remarkable claims should have some hard proof to back them up. I think that's all Gamuret has asked for, but so far you guys have just presented fluff.

I'm not upset. It would be interesting to know more about this side of David's work, but I have never bothered to ask. The PhD reference was taken from the Qigongresearch.com site which was created by some students from Turkey. David asked that we not use it for the website; not sure why, but I would assume it's because that's no longer something he wants to emphasize in the presentation or his own work. From what I have been told he made many of his connections through the research he was involved in, maybe he wants to keep those connections to himself, just a guess; he's pretty careful to protect the privacy of the masters he works with.

 

Anyway, let me know if you find anything interesting and good luck on your search.

 

Best, S

 

 

PS- yes, David's students have met Liping and, as I said, I did as well.

[Hern Heng]

Interesting. Perhaps the Universe has decided that it is time for these things to be brought up. i posted about David in another thread right before coming across this.

 

In any event, let me add my thoughts (you're getting them either way )

 

Some of the research is classified, like the stuff Wang Liping does researching people with special abilities for the government. He is considered the top expert in China on Qigong health and healing and does a great deal of work with cancer and aids patients. He also set up many of the standards that are now in place for qigong and TCM in general.

 

Really? i have a Shrfu (i have several lineages), who worked on remote viewing in Army Intel decades ago. He had no problem showing us credentials of this, though naturally none of us expected names or specifics of cases. He should be able to produce some documentation that he works with the Italian government on such projects. Beyond that, you seem to be only speaking about Wang, Li-Ping; who is not in question here. KNOWING Wang, Li-Ping, and introducing someone to him, is far different than being a disciple of him or being able to introduce you to him in the capacity of a "grandson."

 

He teased us a little when we showed him some herbal prescriptions we had. He said we could ask any high government official, who is the best doctor in China and they would say Wang Liping. Then he told us all our herbs were basically a waste of money and we just need to Pan Zu (sit and meditate). I guess this is typical of the Northern School.

 

Herbs are plants. Plants are food. Herbs are potent food. Is food a waste of money? The logic here is silly. You are not at the point where you can balance your body purely through meditation. i guarantee it. If you were then what is the longest time you have fasted and trained without hindrance to your training energetically?

 

Sorry, I the research thing is not really my field or interest, next time I see David I'll ask him.

 

i once knew a Hare Krishna devotee who would always say "Let me ask my Guru next time i see him" whenever he was backed into a corner. It mildly amused me then as much as it does now.

 

David is a pretty remarkable guy, when he was like 14 or 15 he left Italy and became the apprentice of a Chinese kungfu master in Taiwan; the rest of the story is kind of one unbelievable adventure, so it probably better if I stay in my forum and keep quiet; these discussions usually just create endless gossip and bad feelings.

 

Isn't your forum a subscription based forum? Doesn't this mean that people have to pay hundreds of dollars if they want to hear about David's Grand AdventureTM?

 

Come on now.

 

Anyway, studying from a "Chinese Kungfu master in Taiwan" is utterly UNremarkable. Seriously. What master? How long did he study? Did he go through Bai Shi or receive a Dao name? MOST Kungfu masters fled to Taiwan. i don't see what is remarkable about studying Kungfu in Taiwan when you are a teenager.

Edited February 5, 2008 by Hern Heng

[DentyDao]

Hern,

 

I see. Again, I haven't read through all of what you wrote, but would just like to say I don't think I can add much more to the discussion. If people aren't impressed with David or my knowledge about David, then that is really their issue to work out.

 

I will say that David is Tu Di disciple of Wang Liping. They have lived together, and David studies with him year round in China. I and others among David's students have received closed door training with Liping through David. So, for those who know something, there's not much more to say really.

 

The website is a work in progress, so maybe those who created it will add more info in future.

 

Cheers, S

Edited February 5, 2008 by seandenty

[Gamuret]

Edited February 5, 2008 by Gamuret

[Gamuret]

When appearing in public and thereby becoming a public figure making claims of prominence and excellence David Verdesi must reckon with the fact that he will be asked such questions.

 

I truly don't understand why there is so much to hide. I'm not asking any personal questions about his private life, I'm not seeking any secrets of his school or masters, I'm in fact not passing any kind of judgement about him as a person, his tradition, his masters, etc.

 

G.

Edited February 5, 2008 by Gamuret

[Pietro]

Ok, so I suppose I need to add something. And I better do it asap, before having to read the whole divine commedy of all the posts pro and against David.

 

Hi Pietro,

 

thank you for clearing up (at least somewhat) the confusion regarding Italian academic degrees! I hope that also some students of David Verdesi will be able to offer answers on this and other relevant questions.

 

The interesting thing though is that David Verdesi has been consistently referred to as a Dr. Verdesi or with a Ph. D. behind his surname.

 

Just to give you some examples:

 

Ian Baker's website http://www.rarejourneys.com/Events.htm

 

A Turkish magazine containing an article of his in Turkish http://ww.astrolojigazetesi.com/cemsen.pdf

 

Although the old Verdesi-website cannot be accessed anymore via the Internet Archive service I was able to digg up the old introduction of his credentials somewhere saying:

 

"BIOGRAPHY

David Verdesi (Shen) BC. MT. PhD

 

Born in Rome, David has dedicated his life to the study of human potential, mainly through the Chinese tradition ranging from Shamanism through the main schools of Daoism including recent research in universities and hospitals. Dr Verdesi has spent the last three years travelling around the globe to complete his research in anthropology and comparative religion.

 

David has studied traditional Chinese Qi Gong, Daoism and Shamanism focusing on communication and codification of myth, mysticism and spirituality in the development of this system of knowledge. Such research lead him to study with a number of exponents of traditional Chinese culture and related systems in Asia and South America. Among his main teachers in relation to the Chinese tradition in chronological order."

 

Please pay close attention to the acronyms behind his name i. e. BC. MT. PhD. Would you mind explaining them in the light of academic degrees as used in the Italian educational system?

 

I have't got a clue.

 

You said you knew D. Verdesi way back when you were both still in Italy. Do you perhaps know which university did he attend? Both for undergraduate as well as postgraduate studies (if he did any)?

 

 

He was't at the university yet. I think at the time he didn't even had a high school diploma. But I heard from a common friend that he ended high school without telling anyone about those studies. I have no problems believing this story. I don't generally ask my friends a formal CV.

 

You also mentioned David Verdesi teaching a course at a Swedish university. Do you perhaps remember the name of it?

I was never told, nor I cared enough to ask.

 

Finally it is interesting to note that the phrase "Dr. Verdesi" was frequently used in the public introduction of the "Foundation Training"-forum, but this has now been removed over night and there is not even a trace of "Dr. Verdesi" or "David Verdesi Ph. D" (the same goes for his new website). Just to back my claims, please take a look at the following links and see for yourself:

...

 

 

It looks like someone made an error, and when you started investigating they wanted to correct it. I would exclude David from all this since my understanding is that David is the ultimate non geek type. He has students who are more than willing to set up a forum for him, and take care of the day to day situation.

 

I guess that... oh no, you said just facts.

 

You see, the problem is that people have been concentrating too much on the philosophical or spiritual side of the whole affair. These things are most difficult to verify. How can you know for sure if the stories about all these "great" masters are true? You cannot say they are true, neither that they are false, because you were not there. Therefore let people check the things that can be checked (see the questions in my original post) - perhaps with some effort, but still.

 

There's been too much mud-slinging offering ground for spin-doctoring from all accross the spectrum of Verdesi's adherents as well as his detractors. Let's just try to find out the good, plain ol' facts.

 

I have no problems with you trying to understand the facts. I told you about a common friend? Well, he was also in Castaneda stuff, and he evntually found who was the supervisor of Carlos, when he did his thesis. He then went to read the books of Carlos' supervisor, and he found there all (or most) of the ideas that were being presented as Don Juan personal teachings. They were just written in a very hard to digest form.

 

G.

 

P. S. Pietro, it's been said on the Verdesi-website (http://www.traditionaltao.com/index.html/html/site-section/ID/1) that:

 

"Over fifteen years of personal research as an anthropologist in China and Asia, including collaborative research with major universities and hospitals in China and the United States, have culminated in unprecedented access to some of the most sought after teachers and Daoist schools in China."

 

Has it perhaps come to your ears with which "major universities and hospitals" in China and the US D. Verdesi has been doing his "collaborative research"?

 

I haven't got a clue. But a few things I can tell:

I exlude categorically that they had anything to do with the italian government. The italian government have hardly the money to pay for the toilet paper in its universities, it surely isn't sponsoring secret studies on chi.

 

Gamuret also asked me some question through PM. I told him that I was not prepared to answer personal questions on David, especially since he insisited on keeping his anonymity. But a few of the least personal I can try to answer.

 

You've are Italian and have been in personal contact with D. Verdesi for a period of time. What's your opinion about him? What are your experiences with him? What kind of person is he? [...]

 

I don't know enough of David to answer all those questions, but a few things I can say. When I first met him he was in a martial art school. I was there as well, but we were in different years, and we both left pretty soon. I don't know of any Taiwan master, but soon he was under the protection of Chia, learning more than the rest of us, and being sent by Chia to meet other teachers. He would then come back and report. This is how Chia got some of his practices. David always put his practice before everything else, up to the point to be willing to jump in the dark, if he felt it was the right thing to do. An example? he would order a plane ticket for a place he had the feeling he had to see, even though he did not had the money at the time to buy the ticket. All because he felt that the money would just arrive at the right time. And inevitably the money would arrive. He also fucked up things royally when a friend asked him to organise her workshop, and he esentially didn't do anything. In a sense it was inevitable, he never had to do anything to organise his workshops. Somehow they got organised for him. Either by the universe, or by one of his students. But he never had to sweat to get students. When he tried to apply the same procedure on his friends it didn't work. He then retracted behind a: "it means that it didn't had to happen". His friend wasn't happy.

 

Is Verdesi truly genuine and all the high prices and hidden costs for his seminars just some kind of tests and in perfect accordance with the Chinese way - you know, the whole "if you don't have metal (i.e. money) you can't make the elixir"-stuff?

 

Or is he simply a smoth-talking shyster trying to get money out of people with some "Sweating to the Oldies"-Qi Gong ripped off from old David Carradine videos?

 

Now you ask me if David school is a good one? I suspect so. One things I think is that David believes his own stories? It is not up to me to jude if they are true or not. Stories of immortals, teachers, high level... fuck do I know? But I don't think he is lying, knowing that he is lying. He might be wrong but I believe he is wrong in good faith.

 

As for the money, he is free to put the price he wants. You are free not to go. This is a free market society, remember?

 

Since you're an Italian tell me, where and how could one start checking Verdesi's academic credentials? Where to start?

 

I haven't got a clue, again. IF he did it in Rome, you would have to check with the Universities in ROme. There are 3 of them (La Sapienze, Tor Vergata, Roma 3). You would need to speak italian (no I am not available to do it) and ask at the antropology department. Some departments put on internet some of the people who got their Laurea. I tried to make a search for

Davide Verdesi antropologia

but nothing of interest came out. As I said Italy is much behind in how much information is on the internet, so this hardly means anything.

 

EDITED: Adding the colors, since the quote do not appear

Edited February 5, 2008 by Pietro

[Gamuret]

Thanks for the post, Pietro! It's truly awesome. A well balanced and good written testimony of a person who personally knew David Verdesi.

 

Thank you also for addressing my questions from my private PM to you!

 

You wrote:

 

"I haven't got a clue. IF he did it in Rome, you would have to check with the Universities in ROme. There are 3 of them (La Sapienze, Tor Vergata, Roma 3). You would need to speak italian (no I am not available to do it) and ask at the antropology department. Some departments put on internet some of the people who got their Laurea."

 

Don't worry Pietro. I'm able and and in fact always do my own research.

 

G.

[Pietro]

...

I am not quite sure why Pietro can not carry his title. I am pretty sure he can. When I leave my country and I actually carry the degree I carry the degree.

...

Hi Harry,

you are right about carrying the degree. Regards the title I am not sure. And in any case I see the title as a shortcut to let people know what studies you have done. Since people in different countries would assume something wrong, it does not work that well. So yes, legally I might be entitled to use them. But ethically I don't feel like. And being in Academia the titles are quite important (beside I now do have a PHD ).

 

Some years ago I was advertising some chi nei chang practise, and I signed Dr. (I had just got my Laurea). My father looked at the ads and commented: is nearly a scam. Meaning that people would expect me to be a medical doctor, not to have a basic degree in maths. Totally unrelated to the massage practice.

[Gamuret]

Pietro, I hope you'll continue posting here and elsewhere. I like the no-nonsense, cut-the-chase style you have.

 

And you try to offer a balanced view - this is the most important.

Edited February 5, 2008 by Gamuret

[mantis]

turns out david verdesi isn't as high and mighty after all, bummer

[sunshine]

Some years ago I was advertising some chi nei chang practise, and I signed Dr. (I had just got my Laurea). My father looked at the ads and commented: is nearly a scam. Meaning that people would expect me to be a medical doctor, not to have a basic degree in maths. Totally unrelated to the massage practice.

 

I agree Pietro. Titles can be misleading. In Germany the differences are made by prefixes like:

Dr. med.

Dr. phil.

 

Dr. whatever....

 

if I remember correctly in Germany the Dr. actually is part of the name, so usually one would have to say: Dr. Jenson, Dr. whoever...

 

Nobody would address anybody by using the other prefix.

 

So. Dr. is Dr. and people often get confused when the have doctors without the Dr. in front of their name. The tile is just the degree showing they did some kind of study work ad wrote a thesis. It does not tell if you are an MD or not.

 

 

Harry

 

>>Sean, do you want to say that you don't even know at which university your own teacher studied?<<

 

To answer from my position. I don't know and I am not interested. And Sean and I for the time being share the same teacher.

 

 

Harry

 

>>turns out david verdesi isn't as high and mighty after all, bummer<<

 

If you actually ever thought/believed that it tells more about you than about the person themselves

 

Harry

Edited February 5, 2008 by sunshine

[Hern Heng]

Hern,

 

I see. Again, I haven't read through all of what you wrote, but would just like to say I don't think I can add much more to the discussion. If people aren't impressed with David or my knowledge about David, then that is really their issue to work out.

 

I will say that David is Tu Di disciple of Wang Liping. They have lived together, and David studies with him year round in China. I and others among David's students have received closed door training with Liping through David. So, for those who know something, there's not much more to say really.

 

The website is a work in progress, so maybe those who created it will add more info in future.

 

Cheers, S

 

Well there are a few problems, for one your forums, where you link for more information requires a $250 membership fee. So if someone wants to see any evidence of what you are saying they have to pay first. This is preposterous, to say the least.

 

Also, what do you mean by "Tu Di?" Di as in "God" or "Lord?" What do you mean (honestly i don't know).

 

Also, so David lives in China? You said he studies with him "year round." This means "all year." Is this correct?

 

How much have you trained with Wang and why do you refer to levels from the Mo Pa'i tradition and not Wang, Li-Ping's lineage's ranking system instead?

 

Lastly (for now), what documentation is there of this? Any pictures of you and David in Wang's home (i.e. in a less than public setting)? Any letter or accreditation of any sort from Wang? Asking for credentials is not asking anything more than what is expected in all circles.

 

As well, i read here that "Doctor" Verdessi has a degree more than a Bachelors but less than a Masters. You should not call him a Doctor to non-Italian audiences. The world of academia would not consider him a doctor and you should not refer to him by a title understood the world around as meaning something different than what it means in his context.

[sunshine]

Hi again Hern Heng. I will soon stop replying to these discussions ones again as they are pretty time consuming and tiring, especially because most of it has been actually discussed to death. Please do your research first:

 

>>Well there are a few problems, for one your forums, where you link for more information requires a $250 membership fee. So if someone wants to see any evidence of what you are saying they have to pay first. This is preposterous, to say the least. <<

 

For one: this happened somewhere in the last 2 weeks or so. The forum has been freely accessaible for quite some time. So just because you seem to have become aware of it just right now is simply bad luck (or more esoteric: Heaven's will possibly?)

 

>>How much have you trained with Wang and why do you refer to levels from the Mo Pa'i tradition and not Wang, Li-Ping's lineage's ranking system instead? <<

 

Simply because David has been studying with a different master he is still studying with. It is important to make distinctions as they are not the same!

 

>>Lastly (for now), what documentation is there of this? Any pictures of you and David in Wang's home (i.e. in a less than public setting)? Any letter or accreditation of any sort from Wang? Asking for credentials is not asking anything more than what is expected in all circles. <<

 

I leave that to Sean... Still: Do you know Master Liping in order to know from a picture if he were it or not?

 

>>As well, i read here that "Doctor" Verdessi has a degree more than a Bachelors but less than a Masters. You should not call him a Doctor to non-Italian audiences. The world of academia would not consider him a doctor and you should not refer to him by a title understood the world around as meaning something different than what it means in his context.<<

 

Have you read what I stated about titles? If he has a title he has a title. Simple as that. Otherwise I will start to inquire that no American should be allowed to write Phd. in front (or behind) her/his name when coming to Germany, as most of us have no clue what it is.

 

The sad bit is. Writing all this I realize that I lose my inner balance right now writing this. thankx for your presence pointing out this weakness in me. Got to stop. Practice to do.

 

 

Harry

[Hern Heng]

For one: this happened somewhere in the last 2 weeks or so. The forum has been freely accessaible for quite some time. So just because you seem to have become aware of it just right now is simply bad luck (or more esoteric: Heaven's will possibly?)

 

Yes, Heaven's will indeed! Seeing that you charge $250 to access a forum with information that is highly critical of others (e.g. Chia, Winn), and absolutely rejects ANY critical look at the David sparked me to write. It is no doubt that T'ien itself has willed this to come to pass as it has.

 

>>How much have you trained with Wang and why do you refer to levels from the Mo Pa'i tradition and not Wang, Li-Ping's lineage's ranking system instead? <<

 

Simply because David has been studying with a different master he is still studying with. It is important to make distinctions as they are not the same!

 

Right. That's my point. Why all the hijacking of Mo Pa'i terminology for a non-Mo Pa'i lineage? i still don't get it but it seems we agree that a distinction should be made (and David should stop promoting himself via Sean, through the context of a system he is not a part of).

 

>>Lastly (for now), what documentation is there of this? Any pictures of you and David in Wang's home (i.e. in a less than public setting)? Any letter or accreditation of any sort from Wang? Asking for credentials is not asking anything more than what is expected in all circles. <<

 

I leave that to Sean... Still: Do you know Master Liping in order to know from a picture if he were it or not?

 

i refuse to answer a question that was posed as a question answer to my question. In other words, answer my question and i will answer your's. In any event, i will tell you enough that if you show me a picture of Wang, Li-Ping with Sean and David in his house then i will be able to verify whether or not it is him. The ball is in YOUR court; so do not ask me to return it when you have not served it back yet

 

>>As well, i read here that "Doctor" Verdessi has a degree more than a Bachelors but less than a Masters. You should not call him a Doctor to non-Italian audiences. The world of academia would not consider him a doctor and you should not refer to him by a title understood the world around as meaning something different than what it means in his context.<<

 

Have you read what I stated about titles? If he has a title he has a title. Simple as that. Otherwise I will start to inquire that no American should be allowed to write Phd. in front (or behind) her/his name when coming to Germany, as most of us have no clue what it is.

 

You having no idea what PhD means in Germany is pure fantasy. Within the realm of German academia "PhD" is a recognized title. If "Shrfu" means "advanced beginner" in Russian Martial Arts (a clearly fictitious example), but means "Master Father" in the rest of the world, then this is something that Russian Martial Artists would need to point out. Calling a man who has not completed Master Level education a "Doctor" is a hustle.

 

The sad bit is. Writing all this I realize that I lose my inner balance right now writing this. thankx for your presence pointing out this weakness in me. Got to stop. Practice to do.

 

You are most welcome dear friend.

[Uncle Fester]

.

Edited September 19, 2021 by darebak

[sunshine]

I am out Hern Heng. Not because I am not willing to have a good and straight discussion. Read through all the messages written about David and all else and I hope you will realize. But I realize as well that it leads absolutely nowhere to continue. One thing I can tell you for sure. I haven't been in Wang Liping's home and have therefore no photo to show. One more thing is sure: Had I been and were there a photo in my hands I very likely would still refrain from showing. Sean. If you like to continue. I have lost the sense for it.

 

Take care.

 

 

Harry

[Hern Heng]

Absolutely silly. Why would you refrain from showing a picture of people with their teachers. David is so elusive that you cannot even show a picture of him with the man he is claiming is his Shrfu? Ridiculous and unparalleled in ridiculousness. Kosta shows him with Chang. Everyone shows himself with his Shrfu. i leave you - as well - with your ridiculous grand finale; underlining the preposterousness of your claims about David.

[DentyDao]

Sean. If you like to continue. I have lost the sense for it.

I'm good.

[Hern Heng]

I'm good.

 

One of the neatest quotes in all of religious traditions is "Truth is manifest from falsehood."

 

i find this to be one of the most plain and profound statements capable of being formed into words.

 

i (and many others), ask for some demonstration that your teacher is a capable teacher before shelling otu money to him and to you simply for contact with him. You refuse to provide so much as a picture of him with the man that you are both claiming to learn from.

 

Secrecy is for people with secrets to keep. If you wish to keep secrets then you don't flood Daoist oriented forums with promotional ads (some overt and some subtle), for your teacher (who is being promoted as a gateway to masters that we have no proof he has even spoken to, let alone been given permission to teach on behalf of).

 

Bringing this to the attention of the readers of this site is not something that you should take offense from. It is the "put up or shut up" moment, and you have chosen (wisely), to shut up.

[DentyDao]

i (and many others), ask for some demonstration that your teacher is a capable teacher

Request denied.

 

Cheers, S

[Taoist81]

It seems that the $250 forum fee is turning some people away. Have you ever considered that maybe this is the point? I don't know if it is but it would sure make sense.

If David was bent on profit that would not be a smart move, would it?

 

Some people get off on ripping a public stranger. Look at TMZ. Look at the tabloids. And even TMZ does a better job at fact checking than many of you who are attacking David, Max, probably others. These kind of uninformed personal attacks against a person, whether it be David, Max or anyone else, are just a product of fear. Just another way of chasing your tail. How do I know? I've done it too! And I've learned my lesson.

 

I have some suggestions: don't be afraid. There is nothing to defend guys. Get over your sense of entitlement. Go do something you love instead of wasting your time showing people how good you are at attacking without information or provocation. Life is too short for this shit.

 

Disclaimer: The following post is not meant to imply that David (whom the poster does NOT know personally or professionally) is anything other than what he and his students claim. It is only to point out a fact that should always be kept in mind...

 

It would make perfect sense to charge for the forum if profit were the goal. Every cult that has existed has demanded some sort of monetary donation, if not a donation of most/all of one's possessions. This sacrifice (often of amounts that increase as one becomes more immersed) adds to the indoctrination because the person remembers how much they gave up and thereby alter their beliefs to see it as something valuable. After all, for them to have given up so much it must have been worth it. Another common method of mind control is controlling of sexual impulses. If a persons sexual behavior is dictated (be it the chastity of Mormonism, the avoidance of "perversions" of Scientology, etc.) then again, a subconscious plant is made that if the person/group is able to dictate one's sexuality they must be worthy of listening to. This is one reason that skepticism is so important in the modern world.

[Gamuret]

Friends, Romans, Countrymen (oops, the wrong speech!)

 

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen................... and that fat Chinese cat from Sichuan sitting in the last row -

,

 

the whole discussion originally intended to be sober and fact-oriented is more and more devolving into a discussion heavily tainted by personal sentiment. We are all humans, but I on my part tried to keep the personal part as much as I was able to in check, while posting here in the public.

 

Let me again repeat my questions and fervently pray to the mighty Gods that they will be answered at least until the coming of Saoshyant - the Great Deliverer or perhaps sooner i. e. the Second Coming our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

QUOTE

 

"From which university and when exactly did D. Verdesi get his doctorate?

 

What was the subject and title of his thesis?

 

What academic area inside anthropology did he do his Ph. D. in? Medical anthropology, cultural anthropology?

 

It's also been stated that D. Verdesi is collaborating with the Chinese government as far as his forthcoming book is concerned. His masters are mentioned to be respectable members of the community holding official posts.

 

With which branch of the Chinese government does David Verdesi co-operate? The Ministry of Science and Technology, the Ministry of Culture? State Administration for Religious Affairs?

 

What kind of official positions do D. Verdesi's masters hold? And with which institutions?

 

At the new Traditionaltao website it's also being said (http://www.traditionaltao.com/index.html/html/site-section/ID/1):

 

"Over fifteen years of personal research as an anthropologist in China and Asia, including collaborative research with major universities and hospitals in China and the United States, have culminated in unprecedented access to some of the most sought after teachers and Daoist schools in China."

 

With which major universities and hospitals in China and the US exactly did David Verdesi do his collaborative research? Where can one access the results of these researches i. e. peer-reviewed journals, etc.?"

 

To the above questions I'd like to add the following:

 

At which university or universities did David Verdesi engage in his undergraduate and postgraduate studies respectively? In which period of time?"

 

END OF QUOTE

 

PLEASE READ CAREFULLY THE FOLLOWING FEW SENTENCES (AGAIN A QUOTE)!!!

 

Finally I'd like to show you how a truly renowned scholar's CV looks like. Did you ever hear of Michael Saso, one of the pioneers in the field of Daoist studies? He is also an ordained Zheng Yi priest and did 10 years of field work in the Taiwanese Daoist community. He speaks fluently Chinese, Japanese and also has mastered classical Chinese. Take a look at his biography at Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Saso . By the way Michael Saso like David Verdesi is an anthropologist. Yet Michael Saso doesn't seem to have any problems with letting people know where he obtained his Ph. D.

 

END OF QUOTE

 

Yours truly retreating again into the background,

 

Gamuret

Edited February 5, 2008 by Gamuret

[Hern Heng]

Request denied.

 

Cheers, S

 

Accordingly, my support, money and complicity in your scam is also denied