Being a modern Viking and the Dao

[Kongming]

So I think I've made a thread with a similar question on here before, but figured I'd ask again in a different way.

 

Over the past year or more I've been trying to turn myself into a modern Viking...not necessarily in the context of a plunderer or raider so much as turning myself into a badass warrior insofar as possible. This includes nurturing a warrior mentality, training in boxing/fighting every day,  lifting weights and growing in strength, and really just embracing that sort of Conan the Barbarian life despite its lack of utility in the modern world.

 

My question is it possible to proceed along the Daoist path (or similar spiritual paths others might follow, such as yoga, etc.) simultaneously with the above lifestyle? Can the above lifestyle come into conflict with ones cultivation or practices such as qigong/neigong and especially the potential practice of neidan?

 

Finally what do you think is the best way to integrate these two paths? For example, is it best to do neigong prior to or after exercise? Where does zhan zhuang fall? How about meditation?

 

In short I feel a strong inner urge or call to follow the warrior path, and yet I also don't want it to get in the way of what I see as life's most important or highest goal, namely spiritual cultivation aimed toward liberation and/or transcendence?

 

Please feel free to share whatever insights or recommendations you may have.

[rene]

19 minutes ago, Kongming said:

So I think I've made a thread with a similar question on here before, but figured I'd ask again in a different way.

 

Over the past year or more I've been trying to turn myself into a modern Viking...not necessarily in the context of a plunderer or raider so much as turning myself into a badass warrior insofar as possible. This includes nurturing a warrior mentality, training in boxing/fighting every day,  lifting weights and growing in strength, and really just embracing that sort of Conan the Barbarian life despite its lack of utility in the modern world.

 

My question is it possible to proceed along the Daoist path (or similar spiritual paths others might follow, such as yoga, etc.) simultaneously with the above lifestyle? Can the above lifestyle come into conflict with ones cultivation or practices such as qigong/neigong and especially the potential practice of neidan?

 

For me, there is no conflict - but it depends on one's perspective towards the two seemingly (but not, imo) different ways; nor do I see a "lack of utility" for either path in the modern world.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Kongming said:

 

Finally what do you think is the best way to integrate these two paths? For example, is it best to do neigong prior to or after exercise? Where does zhan zhuang fall? How about meditation?

 

Others might speak to this - my exercise is chopping wood, moving rocks, hauling water, shoveling snow. The integration, for me, comes naturally.

 

19 minutes ago, Kongming said:

In short I feel a strong inner urge or call to follow the warrior path, and yet I also don't want it to get in the way of what I see as life's most important or highest goal, namely spiritual cultivation aimed toward liberation and/or transcendence?

 

This depends on what you are trying to transcend or liberate yourself from.

IMO - the highest virtue is to be true to who you are.

If it is in your spiritual nature to follow the warrior path - you might find liberation when you do just that.

 

 

[Stosh]

"Now as to your five-bushel gourd, why did you not make a float of it, and float about over river and lake? And you complain of its being too flat for holding things! I fear your mind is stuffy inside."

Chuang from Terebess 

[rene]

Both, same time - has many manifestations.

 

 

[Starjumper]

Every bit of knowledge that becomes power has death as its central force. Death lends the ultimate touch and whatever is touched by death indeed becomes power.

 

A man who follows the paths of sorcery is confronted with imminent annihilation every turn of the way, and unavoidably he becomes keenly aware of his death. Without the awareness of death he would be only an ordinary man involved in ordinary acts. He would lack the necessary potency, the necessary concentration that transforms one's ordinary time on earth into magical power.

 

 

Thus to be a warrior a man has to be, first of all, and rightfully so, keenly aware of his own death. But to be concerned with death would force any one of us to focus on the self and that would be debilitating. So the next thing one needs to be a warrior is detachment. The idea of imminent death, instead of becoming an obsession, becomes an indifference.

 

Now you must detach yourself; detach yourself from everything. Only the idea of death makes a man sufficiently detached so he is incapable of abandoning himself to anything. Only the idea of death makes a man sufficiently detached so he can't deny himself anything. A man of that sort, however, does not crave, for he has acquired a silent lust for life and for all things of life. He knows his death is stalking him and won't give him time to cling to anything, so he tries, without craving, all of everything.

 

 

A detached man, who knows he has no possibility of fencing off his death, has only one thing to back himself with: the power of his decisions. He has to be, so to speak, the master of his choices. He must fully understand that his choice is his responsibility and once he makes it there is no longer time for regrets or recriminations. His decisions are final, simply because his death does not permit him time to cling to anything.

 

And thus with an awareness of his death, with his detachment, and with the power of his decisions a warrior sets his life in a strategical manner. The knowledge of his death guides him and makes him detached and silently lusty; the power of his final decisions makes him able to choose without regrets and what he chooses is always strategically the best; and so he performs everything he has to with gusto and lusty efficiency.

 

When a man behaves in such a manner one may rightfully say that he is a warrior and has acquired patience. When a warrior has acquired patience he is on his way to will. He knows how to wait. His death sits with him on his mat, they are friends. His death advises him, in mysterious ways, how to choose, how to live strategically. And the warrior waits! I would say that the warrior learns without any hurry because he knows he is waiting for his will; and one day he succeeds in performing something ordinarily quite impossible to accomplish. He may not even notice his extraordinary deed. But as he keeps on performing impossible acts, or as impossible things keep on happening to him, he becomes aware that a sort of power is emerging. A power that comes out of his body as he progresses on the path of knowledge. He notices that he can actually touch anything he wants with a feeling that comes out of his body from a spot right below or right above his navel. That feeling is the will, and when he is capable of grabbing with it, one can rightfully say that the warrior is a sorcerer, and that he has acquired will.

 

A man can go still further than that; a man can learn to see. Upon learning to see he no longer needs to live like a warrior, nor be a sorcerer. Upon learning to see a man becomes everything by becoming nothing. He, so to speak, vanishes and yet he's there. I would say that this is the time when a man can be or can get anything he desires. But he desires nothing, and instead of playing with his fellow men like they were toys, he meets them in the midst of their folly. The only difference between them is that a man who sees controls his folly, while his fellow men can't. A man who sees has no longer an active interest in his fellow men. Seeing has already detached him from absolutely everything he knew before.

 

  ~ Castaneda

Edited August 6, 2018 by Starjumper

[rene]

2 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

Every bit of knowledge that becomes power has death as its central force. Death lends the ultimate touch and whatever is touched by death indeed becomes power.

 

A man who follows the paths of sorcery is confronted with imminent annihilation every turn of the way, and unavoidably he becomes keenly aware of his death. Without the awareness of death he would be only an ordinary man involved in ordinary acts. He would lack the necessary potency, the necessary concentration that transforms one's ordinary time on earth into magical power.

 

 

Thus to be a warrior a man has to be, first of all, and rightfully so, keenly aware of his own death. But to be concerned with death would force any one of us to focus on the self and that would be debilitating. So the next thing one needs to be a warrior is detachment. The idea of imminent death, instead of becoming an obsession, becomes an indifference.

 

Now you must detach yourself; detach yourself from everything. Only the idea of death makes a man sufficiently detached so he is incapable of abandoning himself to anything. Only the idea of death makes a man sufficiently detached so he can't deny himself anything. A man of that sort, however, does not crave, for he has acquired a silent lust for life and for all things of life. He knows his death is stalking him and won't give him time to cling to anything, so he tries, without craving, all of everything.

 

 

A detached man, who knows he has no possibility of fencing off his death, has only one thing to back himself with: the power of his decisions. He has to be, so to speak, the master of his choices. He must fully understand that his choice is his responsibility and once he makes it there is no longer time for regrets or recriminations. His decisions are final, simply because his death does not permit him time to cling to anything.

 

And thus with an awareness of his death, with his detachment, and with the power of his decisions a warrior sets his life in a strategical manner. The knowledge of his death guides him and makes him detached and silently lusty; the power of his final decisions makes him able to choose without regrets and what he chooses is always strategically the best; and so he performs everything he has to with gusto and lusty efficiency.

 

When a man behaves in such a manner one may rightfully say that he is a warrior and has acquired patience. When a warrior has acquired patience he is on his way to will. He knows how to wait. His death sits with him on his mat, they are friends. His death advises him, in mysterious ways, how to choose, how to live strategically. And the warrior waits! I would say that the warrior learns without any hurry because he knows he is waiting for his will; and one day he succeeds in performing something ordinarily quite impossible to accomplish. He may not even notice his extraordinary deed. But as he keeps on performing impossible acts, or as impossible things keep on happening to him, he becomes aware that a sort of power is emerging. A power that comes out of his body as he progresses on the path of knowledge. He notices that he can actually touch anything he wants with a feeling that comes out of his body from a spot right below or right above his navel. That feeling is the will, and when he is capable of grabbing with it, one can rightfully say that the warrior is a sorcerer, and that he has acquired will.

 

A man can go still further than that; a man can learn to see. Upon learning to see he no longer needs to live like a warrior, nor be a sorcerer. Upon learning to see a man becomes everything by becoming nothing. He, so to speak, vanishes and yet he's there. I would say that this is the time when a man can be or can get anything he desires. But he desires nothing, and instead of playing with his fellow men like they were toys, he meets them in the midst of their folly. The only difference between them is that a man who sees controls his folly, while his fellow men can't. A man who sees has no longer an active interest in his fellow men. Seeing has already detached him from absolutely everything he knew before.

 

Every action and non-action is one of equal creation and destruction;

Every moment that passes is one of equal life and death.

This cannot be avoided - why would one want to avoid it?

One's life and one's death are already here; such is the way.

Those who see know this.

 

It's what we choose to do in the space between these moments - that makes life fun.

 

[rene]

1 hour ago, Kongming said:

Please feel free to share whatever insights or recommendations you may have.

 

Kongming - you might find some of your questions answered here -

 

https://thewisdomwarrior.com/2018/05/25/journey-beyond-the-ordinary-be-extraordinary-bohdi-sanders/

 

He's marketing his books, for sure - but there may be some useful information in his blogs as well.

 

[Starjumper]

The spiritual path of the warrior is a fast path.  The Way has been separated by many into two separate paths, spiritual or martial, but really they go best together and each is greatly diminished by not being combined with the other.

[Aetherous]

You can do anything you set your mind to. If you want to be more of a warrior, and if you have an interest in transcendence and liberation...no problem. You will be able to tell when different things you're cultivating are conflicting.

[CityHermit!]

More or less it should be ok, probably helps to balance Yin and Yang aspects, activity and quiescence, etc.

[rene]

More needs to be said, I think, to the OP's valid questions.

 

Speaking only for myself.

Unlike Odin - I don't 'feed' my dark wolf in the same manner he suggests.

What I do - is to not give it more power by spending energy trying to kill it, or suppress it, or deny it's existence.

In the rare times it howls - I let it cycle through of its own accord, feeding it no attention or importance - other than a casual observation. Soon, it returns to the dark corner in which it dwells and I go about my day.

Neither of my wolves are very hungry; they co-exist naturally and I leave them to it.

 

[doc benway]

I combined the two paths for many years and they did integrate well for me.

I reached a point where I felt that the martial training and mindset no longer served me and seemed to be compromising my spiritual practice so I abandoned the martial path and have not regretted it for a moment.

I recommend you do what is in your heart and don't look back.

[falcon]

Sounds fun, but also seems like a tremendous amount of your every day:

 

 

Meditation 

Fighting

Resistance training

Qigong/neigong

 

Lets say you spend an hour on each, thats 4 hours in a given typical day. Not to mention other time that would consist of:

 

Learning

Transportation/commuting

Eating

 

And most importantly the means for your survival (job, offgrid self provider, etc.) This typically for a given person in modern society is around 10 hours (1 hr lunch, 1hr commute, and bare minum standard of 8 hours on the clock)

 

 

Also when you get serious in spiritual development, 1 hour is not enough to meditate, or practice internal alchemy. Some people are doing horse stance for hours before they even sit down.

 

But also what about time for:

 

Family & Community

Professional or business developement

Buying/growing food

Shelter maintenance

 

Im not saying it isnt possible. Prioritizing time helps you structure your day. This is very important so you can be in flow state and move from one thing to the next without thinking, anxiety, etc. Just consider that a lot of society, family, and community influence affect your actions, time, and decisions. All the more important to allocate time for each endeavor and stick to it so you can evolve. 

 

 

 

I mention all this because I have gone through physical phases of warrior training and as certain aspects in my life gain more importance and precendence I shift the majority of my energy towards those engagements.

 

 

 

[Starjumper]

1 hour ago, falcon said:

Meditation 

Fighting

Resistance training

Qigong/neigong

 

Lets say you spend an hour on each, thats 4 hours in a given typical day. Not to mention other time that would consist of:

 

Also when you get serious in spiritual development, 1 hour is not enough to meditate, or practice internal alchemy. Some people are doing horse stance for hours before they even sit down.

 

It's not necessary to be so hard on yourself.  For example, real nei kung taught in the traditional complete way includes sitting meditation after the moving exercises.  Any nei kung taught without including the sitting as an integral part of the system, and including the hundreds of different types of sitting meditation, has been bastardized.  

 

So the moving exercises are meditation, include resistance training and replace the standing meditation, you do them all at once, so you get your three hours of training including meditation, resistance training, and nei kung in one hour rather than three.  Then you add the sitting meditation for another 45 minutes to an hour.    Three times a week is enough, you don't need to do it every day, but a little bit of sitting in bed before going to sleep or on waking up is a good thing to do each day.  

 

The fighting is not needed, a warrior mentality does not necessarily mean physical fighting, in fact the real systems usually do not allow fighting and you'll get kicked out if you do get in fights.  The fighting is for the much more pathetic sporting martial arts, and those types may not be warriors at all.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Starjumper

[TomBrad]

Kongming,

 

Do you have anything to do with this?

 

http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/stav.html

 

[rene]

40 minutes ago, TomBrad said:

Kongming,

 

Do you have anything to do with this?

 

http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/stav.html

 

 

TomBrad - that's an excellent link!

I've had it bookmarked for years; it's my online go-to for all things rune.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

I dont know, i’m pretty sure you’re badass you but i’ve developed an allergy towards warriorhood as people have tried to sell me some sort of warrior ideal and identity repeatedly and over time i’ve seen them eat themselves in their struggle to embody the Warrior. It comes with baggage and my feeling is when it is shed in the motion of transcendence it leaves more baggage behind... your regimen sounds awesome and all power to you however, dont get me wrong.

 

But a warrior?

A warrior does war. Are you at war? I’d mos def empower my warriorhood if i were in a war. But in times of peace? Nope. What do warriors do when there is no war?

 

Vikings traveled far and wide and made most of their connections through exchange and trade. Raids were for more desperate times, but a lot of the seafarers left their homes because their family or their land couldnt support them.

I love the sagas and history, being a Swede it’s part of my cultural heritage and society back then seems fascinating.

 

But what about the black wolf? You feed it when you feed yourself, it is because you are.

The white wolf too!

 

”Do not recitepoetry to one who is not a poet. If you meet a swordsman, draw your sword.”

Warrior at war, scholar at learning, student of all and master of you.

 

A warrior could be someone who has lived and survived war. That brings out stuff in people, like trauma, clarity of purpose, self reliance and whatnot. Those are survival and thriving skills. But they are not always appropriate... 

 

idk, does it make any sense?

[rene]

23 minutes ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

I dont know, i’m pretty sure you’re badass you but i’ve developed an allergy towards warriorhood as people have tried to sell me some sort of warrior ideal and identity repeatedly and over time i’ve seen them eat themselves in their struggle to embody the Warrior. It comes with baggage and my feeling is when it is shed in the motion of transcendence it leaves more baggage behind... your regimen sounds awesome and all power to you however, dont get me wrong.

 

But a warrior?

A warrior does war. Are you at war? I’d mos def empower my warriorhood if i were in a war. But in times of peace? Nope. What do warriors do when there is no war?

 

Vikings traveled far and wide and made most of their connections through exchange and trade. Raids were for more desperate times, but a lot of the seafarers left their homes because their family or their land couldnt support them.

I love the sagas and history, being a Swede it’s part of my cultural heritage and society back then seems fascinating.

 

But what about the black wolf? You feed it when you feed yourself, it is because you are.

The white wolf too!

 

”Do not recitepoetry to one who is not a poet. If you meet a swordsman, draw your sword.”

Warrior at war, scholar at learning, student of all and master of you.

 

A warrior could be someone who has lived and survived war. That brings out stuff in people, like trauma, clarity of purpose, self reliance and whatnot. Those are survival and thriving skills. But they are not always appropriate... 

 

idk, does it make any sense?

 

Makes sense to me, Rocky.

 

And a hearty Welcome to the Longtable!...oops, wrong thread!!.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

19 hours ago, rene said:

 

Makes sense to me, Rocky.

 

And a hearty Welcome to the Longtable!...oops, wrong thread!!.

 

Well good and thank you! Down the mead and lets not tarry since Valhalla awaits, skål för Oden och Tor!