LMP, SonOfTheGods, Mercury Fire Blood and Honey

[Forwards]

3 hours ago, kondensation said:

 

If you do your thing and you're honest about it, it shouldn't bother people. I saw some back and forth... but honestly, I don't know what the conflict is about.

 

 

In what sense are you anti-taoist?

Easiest way to think about it is that if it is a religion or established belief system we don't like it.  The specifics and whys probably don't matter much if you're not considering joining or are a member.

 

That's only if you're considering joining, though.  We don't walk the streets at night looking to burn taoists or lynch christians.  Although if one of our members turns out to be THE antichrist we'd probably organize a get together to celebrate.  Maybe do some pickup mma bouts or have a bake/protein sale for an animal based charity. 

[Earl Grey]

11 minutes ago, Forwards said:

Easiest way to think about it is that if it is a religion or established belief system we don't like it.  The specifics and whys probably don't matter much if you're not considering joining or are a member.

 

That's only if you're considering joining, though.  We don't walk the streets at night looking to burn taoists or lynch christians.  Although if one of our members turns out to be THE antichrist we'd probably organize a get together to celebrate.  Maybe do some pickup mma bouts or have a bake/protein sale for an animal based charity. 

 

This hearty attitude is why I enjoy the Loneman Pai fellows. I don't practice it, but I sure would love to grab a beer with them and party in the vein of the Beastie Boys. 

[lifeforce]

18 minutes ago, Forwards said:

Easiest way to think about it is that if it is a religion or established belief system we don't like it.  The specifics and whys probably don't matter much if you're not considering joining or are a member.

 

That's only if you're considering joining, though.  We don't walk the streets at night looking to burn taoists or lynch christians.  Although if one of our members turns out to be THE antichrist we'd probably organize a get together to celebrate.  Maybe do some pickup mma bouts or have a bake/protein sale for an animal based charity. 

 

This statement suggests a belief system.

[Fa Xin]

8 minutes ago, lifeforce said:

 

This statement suggests a belief system.

Semantics get tricky, but you do have a point worthy of consideration. When someone says they don’t believe in God - I always tell them that is still a belief. 

[Forwards]

39 minutes ago, lifeforce said:

 

This statement suggests a belief system.

Spot on!  Everyone believes things (...i hope haha) but are they the boss or are you?

 

I use beliefs, methods and theories like I use tools.  If I'm building a house its different tools than baking a pie ( again i hope )

 

Again, we are a magick based lineage.  I believe in many gods, spirits, entities, etc. But none as a figure of worship.

[Forwards]

51 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

This hearty attitude is why I enjoy the Loneman Pai fellows. I don't practice it, but I sure would love to grab a beer with them and party in the vein of the Beastie Boys. 

We always talk about get togethers but we're usually busy or solitary.

 

If we do end up having a get together that isnt closed down for members only I'll buy you a beer bro haha

[Nungali]

On 09/04/2019 at 12:09 AM, Forwards said:

Spot on!  Everyone believes things (...i hope haha) but are they the boss or are you?

 

I use beliefs, methods and theories like I use tools.  If I'm building a house its different tools than baking a pie ( again i hope )

 

Again, we are a magick based lineage.  I believe in many gods, spirits, entities, etc. But none as a figure of worship.

 

I could be mistaken but I think you are the only person here  that thinks like that ... or at least, expressed it that way .

 

I sparked up when I read that, I often write stuff like that myself and try to explain it to people when the question of belief arises, but I usually get no response or a strange look.

 

Yes ! Belief should be part of one's 'tool kit'. Like the mind should be .   One's beliefs can change due to trauma - like a blow to the head, so what does that say about any 'objective reality' for our beliefs. I studied some Comparative religion at Uni and the first units where about belief and the nature of belief, the lecturer made its dynamics pretty clear, but really, only me and two others in a class of around 35 got it .  The lecturer said that was normal. Oh yes, every one ELSE had beliefs but their own  beliefs ( a lot  of them where Christian and doing the course as a preliminary to seminary studies .)  where fact, revelation, or divinely inspired    ... and they could not understand why the others thought that was funny. 

 

I tried to explain it recently to someone ;   I have a set of beliefs about what happens when I die ; I believe  ... this or that belief ...and it has changed over the course of my life. But if someone asks me what do I think will actually happen when I die   ................ dunno  .        

 

That just seems to confuse most people .

 

Gee !  One day, people might start realising the same thing about their emotions.

 

We need to see our tools as tools and not our identity or let them  loose place in the hierarchical structure of our being  -  and this of course implies that something is 'the king' of all these forces 'that are not us'  :ie. the seat of identity or what should be regulating our whole 'internal orchestra' ;.

 

The body is our tool , most get that.  The , mind is usually given the place of 'Master Controller', but it should not be, it is third in hierarchy. I already mentioned, the emotions, another tool.

 

As we rise up the internal hierarchy of forces they become more subtle, harder to control and more difficult to realise as 'tools'  (as ; where does identity lie, if not in the body, the mind or the emotions ? ) . Then we get to the level of 'spirit' ,  one's essential nature, whatever we bring with us into life, including our genetic coding .   Now it starts getting more complex, so I will leave it there.

 

In Exo-psychology the 'master controller' is in circuit 7 - the neuro - electric circuit. In magick, it is symbolised by  the magician  wearing his crown, with wand and sword ( master and king of the forces in himself and of evocation and invocation).

 

But talk about these concepts to most, and you loose them .

 

A note on 'worship' ; you can use worship in the same way as belief ; it can supply a need ( perhaps its two way ? ) to those parts of the self that thrive on it.  Its one of the main 'paths'   ;

 

Gnana-Yoga.	Union by Knowledge.
Raja-Yoga.	Union by Will.
Bhakta-Yoga.	Union by Love.
Hatha-Yoga.	Union by Courage.
add Mantra-Yoga.	Union through Speech.
Karma-Yoga.	Union through Work.

 

The Holy Qabalah.	Union by Knowledge.
The Sacred Magic.	Union by Will.
The Acts of Worship.	Union by Love.
The Ordeals.	Union by Courage.
add The Invocations.	Union by Speech.
The Acts of Service.	Union through Work.

 

( and their negative manifestation ;

 

If this idea be any but the Supreme and Perfect idea, and the student lose control, the result is

insanity,

obsession,

fanaticism,

 paralysis and death

 addiction to gossip

incurable idleness.

 

- 'Postcards to Probationers'. )

 

 I have found it very beneficent , if understood,  but risky ..... like love and relationship, one needs to commit and feel it and dissolve , then one can feel wonderful and get all sorts of energy and benefit, but one can 'fall' into it, loose control somewhat ... get 'sucked in', then one's magical ritual of worship can become 'religion'.  LIke how the Hare Krishna's practice 'Bhakti Yoga'  but are totally tied up into 'religion' . You have to 'give' but not too much so you dont 'fall' but you cant really get full benefit UNLESS you fall .   Tricky .

 

Crowley said it was the MOST dangerous path of magick  ( due to similar reasons to the above  )

 

As a form of magic, I have found that it   works REALLY  well .

 

On that note and the use of worship in  (higher) Magick , Liber Astarte    has  some great observations in it ;

 

" This is the Book of Uniting Himself to a particular Deity by devotion. ....

 

.https://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib175.htm

 

 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Nungali

[Forwards]

On 4/9/2019 at 4:51 PM, Nungali said:

 

I could be mistaken but I think you are the only person here  that thinks like that ... or at least, expressed it that way .

 

I sparked up when I read that, I often write stuff like that myself and try to explain it to people when the question of belief arises, but I usually get no response or a strange look.

 

Yes ! Belief should be part of one's 'tool kit'. Like the mind should be .   One's beliefs can change due to trauma - like a blow to the head, so what does that say about any 'objective reality' for our beliefs. I studied some Comparative religion at Uni and the first units where about belief and the nature of belief, the lecturer made its dynamics pretty clear, but really, only me and two others in a class of around 35 got it .  The lecturer said that was normal. Oh yes, every one ELSE had beliefs but their own  beliefs ( a lot  of them where Christian and doing the course as a preliminary to seminary studies .)  where fact, revelation, or divinely inspired    ... and they could not understand why the others thought that was funny. 

 

I tried to explain it recently to someone ;   I have a set of beliefs about what happens when I die ; I believe  ... this or that belief ...and it has changed over the course of my life. But if someone asks me what do I think will actually happen when I die   ................ dunno  .        

 

That just seems to confuse most people .

 

Gee !  One day, people might start realising the same thing about their emotions.

 

We need to see our tools as tools and not our identity or let them  loose place in the hierarchical structure of our being  -  and this of course implies that something is 'the king' of all these forces 'that are not us'  :ie. the seat of identity or what should be regulating our whole 'internal orchestra' ;.

 

The body is our tool , most get that.  The , mind is usually given the place of 'Master Controller', but it should not be, it is third in hierarchy. I already mentioned, the emotions, another tool.

 

As we rise up the internal hierarchy of forces they become more subtle, harder to control and more difficult to realise as 'tools'  (as ; where does identity lie, if not in the body, the mind or the emotions ? ) . Then we get to the level of 'spirit' ,  one's essential nature, whatever we bring with us into life, including our genetic coding .   Now it starts getting more complex, so I will leave it there.

 

In Exo-psychology the 'master controller' is in circuit 7 - the neuro - electric circuit. In magick, it is symbolised by  the magician  wearing his crown, with wand and sword ( master and king of the forces in himself and of evocation and invocation).

 

But talk about these concepts to most, and you loose them .

 

A note on 'worship' ; you can use worship in the same way as belief ; it can supply a need ( perhaps its two way ? ) to those parts of the self that thrive on it.  Its one of the main 'paths'   ;

 

Gnana-Yoga.	Union by Knowledge.
Raja-Yoga.	Union by Will.
Bhakta-Yoga.	Union by Love.
Hatha-Yoga.	Union by Courage.
add Mantra-Yoga.	Union through Speech.
Karma-Yoga.	Union through Work.

 

The Holy Qabalah.	Union by Knowledge.
The Sacred Magic.	Union by Will.
The Acts of Worship.	Union by Love.
The Ordeals.	Union by Courage.
add The Invocations.	Union by Speech.
The Acts of Service.	Union through Work.

 

( and their negative manifestation ;

 

If this idea be any but the Supreme and Perfect idea, and the student lose control, the result is

insanity,

obsession,

fanaticism,

 paralysis and death

 addiction to gossip

incurable idleness.

 

- 'Postcards to Probationers'. )

 

 I have found it very beneficent , if understood,  but risky ..... like love and relationship, one needs to commit and feel it and dissolve , then one can feel wonderful and get all sorts of energy and benefit, but one can 'fall' into it, loose control somewhat ... get 'sucked in', then one's magical ritual of worship can become 'religion'.  LIke how the Hare Krishna's practice 'Bhakti Yoga'  but are totally tied up into 'religion' . You have to 'give' but not too much so you dont 'fall' but you cant really get full benefit UNLESS you fall .   Tricky .

 

Crowley said it was the MOST dangerous path of magick  ( due to similar reasons to the above  )

 

As a form of magic, I have found that it   works REALLY  well .

 

On that note and the use of worship in  (higher) Magick , Liber Astarte    has  some great observations in it ;

 

" This is the Book of Uniting Himself to a particular Deity by devotion. ....

 

.https://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib175.htm

 

 

We seem to have some similar ideas here.  You're obviously dangerous...

 

When ive tried to help people work with and use emotions as tools, masks and helpers i normally just received confusion.   So its usually easier to try and use more buzzword ideas like disassociation and similar to tell people you dont have to be lead by an idea or feeling.  No one likes to hear that as they believe youre placing judgement, unless of course youre dealing with people being torn apart by the stuff and then they love it.

 

Thats hilarious about the uni class because it is the norm. Everyone is delusional but me.

 

Which reminds me of a joke thats the exact same idea that i love telling parents.

 

What's the difference between brats and an angels?   Brats are somebody else's kids.  

 

I get some mixed reactions there... haha