So Many Qigong Traditions : How To Approach ?

[rideforever]

Many Qigong teachers who are expositing some teaching, talk of Grandmasters living in remote mountains, ancient lineage, fantastic effects and son on.  And there really is no way to check any of this.

 

And I wonder often where teachers actually come up with their Qigongs.   Okay maybe they met a grandmaster once, but .... then they start developing new bits, and add ons and so on.   How much of it is just their idea ?    Maybe the grandmaster himself doesn't know, the Chinese are expert at bragging about the ancient heritage form the 39th descendant of the Wudang hermit Kermie and so  on.

 

And btw where do these teachers whilst working in presumably full-time jobs, where do they get time to travel the cloud topped mountains looking for ancient hermits.

 

And if said teacher feels energy .... and then what ?   It's not so easy to know what this energy will do.   Is it.   It could do anything long-term.

 

So how to approach this ?

 

Isn't it a bit dry and lifeless to follow the supposed best teacher with the most powerful form.   What do you want power for anyway.   Isn't it better to be yourself, rather than be a powerful; non-yourself ?

 

Perhaps if you have the inkling to do Butterfly Qigong because hey I always like butterflies .... maybe you should do that, just because.   Don't ask me why.

 

And I wonder if some of these teachers are dancing round their living room and deciding that they have invented an amazing qigong ..... well maybe you should do that too on your own ?

 

Do we really want power or health .... or do we just want ourselves.   Isn't being ourselves the real power and health ?

[ernobe]

What is Qi anyway?  Sounds like some watered down version of Tao.  Best to just read your Tao Te Ching and shut up.

[Fa Xin]

I do Qigong because it gets me moving ... it gets me twisting and turning, massaging my organs and helping with digestion and stretching the body. It gets me breathing deeply, helping the lungs to clear stuff. I also feel centered and relaxed when I finish. It’s a nice start to my day. 

 

I try not to concern myself with what others are doing - or why. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Fa Xin

[Wu Ming Jen]

“The Supreme Medicine has three distinctions:
Ching [essence], Qi [vitality]. and Shen [spirit],
Which are elusive and obscure.  

Keep to nonbeing, yet hold on to being.
And perfection is yours in an instant.

When the distant winds blend together,
In one hundred days of spiritual work
And morning recitation to the Shang Ti,
Then in one year you will soar as an immortal.

The sages awaken through self-cultivation;
Deep, profound, their practices require great effort.

Fulfilling vows illumines the Heavens.

Breathing nourishes youthfulness.

Departing from the Mysterious, entering the Female,
It appears to have perished, yet appears to exist.
Unmovable, its origin is mysterious.

Each person has Ching.
The Shen unites with the Ching,
The Shen unites with the Qi,
The breath then unites with the true nature.
Before you have attained this true nature,
These terms appear to be fanciful exaggerations.  

The Shen is capable of entering stone;
The Shen is capable of physical flight.
Entering water it is not drowned;
Entering fire it is not burned.

The Shen depends on life form;
The Ching depends on sufficient Qi.
If these are neither depleted nor injured
The result will be youthfulness and longevity.

These three distinctions have one principle,
Yet so subtle it cannot be heard.

Their meeting results in existence,
Their parting results in nonexistence.

The seven apertures interpenetrate
And each emits wisdom light.

The sacred sun and sacred moon
Illuminate the Golden Court.
One attainment is eternal attainment.

The body will naturally become weightless.
When the supreme harmony is replete,
The bone fragments become like winter jade.

Acquiring the Elixir results in immortality;
Not acquiring it results in extinction.

The Elixir is within yourself,
It is not white and not green.

Recite and hold ten thousand times.
These are the subtle principles of self-illumination.”

–  The Jade Emperor’s Mind Seal Classic.

[Spotless]

Qi Gong practiced properly is everything Indian Yoga is (as opposed to Western "Yoga").

 

The quality of the teacher and the practice is not nearly as important as the approach to it.

 

If it is for personal power and health - the quality of the teacher and the practice are minor items - personal power and health are relatively easy things to come forward with in even the most mundane of these practices.

 

If you think reading and studying will take you far - they will - they will at some point take you to the understanding that you need to put the books on the shelf and begin practice. In practice you will find that you misunderstood everything you read - but you will begin to see a glint of the real teaching. Hopefully you will not forget that you misunderstood a great deal initially - and begin to see that holding on to ones "understanding" is not helpful - it is willfulness.

 

Initially it is difficult to fathom "years of practice" and hard to see an extra 2-4 hours to be found in ones day.

Yet when you have tasted the way - time will lose its way with you.

 

"years" are a projection 

 

There is no miraculous recounting of what is possible that is remotely capable of transmitting what IS - all the books on earth are simply a door mat that says Welcome.

 

 

[CityHermit!]

The post takes up a lot of space if I try to copy paste the quote I wrote elsewhere so I'll just copy paste the text itself instead:

 

"Lots of people fell to the Cultural Revolution in China, didn't they? Who is left from the purge of the Qigong movement?"

 

It helps to look into the history of these things.

Edited August 13, 2018 by CityHermit!
awkward copy paste

[voidisyinyang]

Fire (spirit shen) under Water (jing) makes Steam (Qi).

 

[LAOLONG]

8 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

Fire (spirit shen) under Water (jing) makes Steam (Qi).

 

It is HEX 63

END OF THE WAY

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by ONE

[voidisyinyang]

21 minutes ago, ONE said:

It is HEX 63

END OF THE WAY

 

cool! https://daykeeperjournal.com/aarch07/0710oct/bkrev.shtml
 

Quote

 

In the I Ching, fire above water signifies hexagram #64, “Before Completion,” and water above fire signifies hexagram #63, “After Completion”.

Yes, you read the hexagram numbers right! “After” comes before “Before” in the I Ching. That oddity forces one to notice that these two hexagrams make a pair. The before/after reversal suggests the fanciful notion that the way one visualizes the future leads one back to the path that leads up to that future. In any event, this pair of hexagrams, #63 “After Completion” and #64, “Before Completion” complete the I Ching.

According to Mantak Chia, Li (fire) and Kan (water), the trigrams that form hexagram #63 and #64, are emanations of yang and yin energies in and around physical bodies. His examples of bodily-derived yang and yin energies within fire and water are: chi, a Chinese concept; emotions; temper; and sexual energy.

But two other trigrams that are used for the I Ching contain pure yang and yin energies. These are Ch’ien (heaven) and Kun (earth). Heaven and earth, when doubled, create the pair of hexagrams that begin the I Ching:  #1, “The Creative” and #2, “The Receptive.”

Through the doubled energies of pure yang and yin in “The Creative” and “The Receptive” flow “the 10,000 things” that are born from the mysterious Tao. Thus, one glimpses that the I Ching is, among many other things, a cosmic system of pairs of hexagrams that flow from birth through death, and perhaps, back around again.(1)

 

 

[exorcist_1699]

On 2018/8/14 at 9:48 AM, voidisyinyang said:

Fire (spirit shen) under Water (jing) makes Steam (Qi).

 

 

Fire is the key for our cultivation .

 

At first, we use post-heavenly  fire ( "paying-attention-to-your-dantian");  at a later  stage, we use pre-heavenly fire ( "mindless-mind");

 

Sometime we use strong fire , sometime we use  weak fire ..etc;

[JohnC]

On 8/8/2018 at 7:08 AM, rideforever said:

So how to approach this ?

 

 

 

Pick who you are drawn to. Be clear what you want, then select someone that provides that.

 

Teacher and practice are very important, as the teacher and system imparts it's energy to you. It's important to pick a solid system as good living lineages provide a lot to their practitioners, such as protection and guidance.

 

My understanding is that you should be careful that you select wisely in that you can pick up the blockages of the teacher.

 

As you practice and develop, you will receive insight and gifts.... of say a new movement, insight or way of practicing. This is how qigong and practice can develop.

 

Best of luck.

 

John

[beingnature]

The hexagram peace has heaven under earth... and whats also interesting that you also have the special case where the heaven hexagram turns into the earth hexagram when all lines are sixes.

[rideforever]

Many traditions and forms are clinically deceased.   

And if they aren't growing or moving, then they are dying.

That goes for all of life.
The most important thing is to the green shoots of new growth whatever you are doing.
If you are making love to your wife of 50 years.   Same !!!
Many monkeys just repeat what the old guy ( cue grandmaster sifu guru srisrisrisri maha ) was doing.
And I suppose the original purpose of this was to guarantee that the tradition was alive.
But it can also be a way to disguise the death of the tree.
Stick with the living spirits.

[Wu Ming Jen]

8 hours ago, rideforever said:

Many traditions and forms are clinically deceased.   

And if they aren't growing or moving, then they are dying.

That goes for all of life.
The most important thing is to the green shoots of new growth whatever you are doing.
If you are making love to your wife of 50 years.   Same !!!
Many monkeys just repeat what the old guy ( cue grandmaster sifu guru srisrisrisri maha ) was doing.
And I suppose the original purpose of this was to guarantee that the tradition was alive.
But it can also be a way to disguise the death of the tree.
Stick with the living spirits.

Why so sad? This is a living art. If I imitated my teacher he would say that is a dead art>When art and life  are the same it is yours and alive. It can not be taken from you. The green shoot comes from something very ancient before heaven and earth began,the foundation of creation.    You need not be a monkey and go along with creation. Take creation into your own hands and be responsible.

 

Now who's fault  is it that the traditions are clinically deceased? I say  you  are

 

 

.

 

 

 

[silent thunder]

living art

 

this!

[whitesilk]

@rideforever get acupuncture at the dragon's gate

Edited August 29, 2018 by whitesilk

[thelerner]

The practice/tradition you choose, should mold you.  Odds are you won't become the teacher, but you will become similar to their students.  So look at them closely.  The integrity of your practice will decide whether you become like their best.. or worst. 

 

 

[AugustGreig]

On 8/8/2018 at 9:21 AM, Fa Xin said:

I do Qigong because it gets me moving ... it gets me twisting and turning, massaging my organs and helping with digestion and stretching the body. It gets me breathing deeply, helping the lungs to clear stuff. I also feel centered and relaxed when I finish. It’s a nice start to my day. 

 

I try not to concern myself with what others are doing - or why. 

Three days ago, I finally learned how to move qi during meditation and how to breath. I have been doing Qigong and meditation every day for 52 days now, although I do spend more time meditating, I have difficulty with qigong. Any advice? How do I breath? Right now I am breathing naturally and silently, focusing on the lower Dan Tien. But I find it difficult to maintain this awareness during some of the movements, especially the stretches and massages. Any help would be truly appreciated.

 

Thank you.

Edited September 18, 2018 by AugustGreig

[AugustGreig]

On 8/8/2018 at 9:44 AM, Wu Ming Jen said:

“The Supreme Medicine has three distinctions:
Ching [essence], Qi [vitality]. and Shen [spirit],
Which are elusive and obscure.  

Keep to nonbeing, yet hold on to being.
And perfection is yours in an instant.

When the distant winds blend together,
In one hundred days of spiritual work
And morning recitation to the Shang Ti,
Then in one year you will soar as an immortal.

The sages awaken through self-cultivation;
Deep, profound, their practices require great effort.

Fulfilling vows illumines the Heavens.

Breathing nourishes youthfulness.

Departing from the Mysterious, entering the Female,
It appears to have perished, yet appears to exist.
Unmovable, its origin is mysterious.

Each person has Ching.
The Shen unites with the Ching,
The Shen unites with the Qi,
The breath then unites with the true nature.
Before you have attained this true nature,
These terms appear to be fanciful exaggerations.  

The Shen is capable of entering stone;
The Shen is capable of physical flight.
Entering water it is not drowned;
Entering fire it is not burned.

The Shen depends on life form;
The Ching depends on sufficient Qi.
If these are neither depleted nor injured
The result will be youthfulness and longevity.

These three distinctions have one principle,
Yet so subtle it cannot be heard.

Their meeting results in existence,
Their parting results in nonexistence.

The seven apertures interpenetrate
And each emits wisdom light.

The sacred sun and sacred moon
Illuminate the Golden Court.
One attainment is eternal attainment.

The body will naturally become weightless.
When the supreme harmony is replete,
The bone fragments become like winter jade.

Acquiring the Elixir results in immortality;
Not acquiring it results in extinction.

The Elixir is within yourself,
It is not white and not green.

Recite and hold ten thousand times.
These are the subtle principles of self-illumination.”

–  The Jade Emperor’s Mind Seal Classic.

What specifically is recitation to the Shang Ti? I am on day 57 of my first 100 days of spiritual work, and I've been doing everything suggested, but hadn't heard this before? Is it prayer? Because I do that. I pray every morning and every night at least, giving thanks and asking that "God's" will, not mine, be done, and to help others, stay patient, compassionate, simple, honest, open minded, willing and grateful. This would be extremely helpful, thanks.

[Fa Xin]

1 hour ago, AugustGreig said:

Three days ago, I finally learned how to move qi during meditation and how to breath. I have been doing Qigong and meditation every day for 52 days now, although I do spend more time meditating, I have difficulty with qigong. Any advice? How do I breath? Right now I am breathing naturally and silently, focusing on the lower Dan Tien. But I find it difficult to maintain this awareness during some of the movements, especially the stretches and massages. Any help would be truly appreciated.

 

Thank you.

Your going to have differing opinions so this is just my way to do it. 

 

I dont focus on the dan tien. I just relax and FEEL the whole body. Let your awareness expand naturally. Breathe like you’d always breathe. Let things take care of themselves, and focus on relaxing. 

[Spotless]

 

52 minutes ago, AugustGreig said:

Three days ago, I finally learned how to move qi during meditation and how to breath. I have been doing Qigong and meditation every day for 52 days now, although I do spend more time meditating, I have difficulty with qigong. Any advice? How do I breath? Right now I am breathing naturally and silently, focusing on the lower Dan Tien. But I find it difficult to maintain this awareness during some of the movements, especially the stretches and massages. Any help would be truly appreciated.

 

Thank you.

When you move your head to the side in a posture - really move it. If you are to move your eyes to the side as well - the do so.

 

When you raise your arms above - do not have them leaning forward - they should be straight up otherwise the channels along the side of the head will not be moved.

 

The fingers should be parted

 

Grab the floor with your feet

 

Breath deep breaths into the LDT (lower dan tien) often

 

In meditation find the center of your head - notice the tendency to be in the forward part or even outside the head a few inches.  Be in the LTD and grow from there and you will come to find the heart and the head joined in the trunk of awareness.

Breath into the center column of your body being from the root - the LDT 

 

Breath into the LDT  - feel the ground deep beneath your feet, the leg channels, the channels along the sides of the main channels in your torso. In the postures grab the ground and be in the LDT and breath good solid breath.

 

As always - watch Diet - it will change as unfolding takes place.

 

 

[AugustGreig]

1 hour ago, Spotless said:

 

When you move your head to the side in a posture - really move it. If you are to move your eyes to the side as well - the do so.

 

When you raise your arms above - do not have them leaning forward - they should be straight up otherwise the channels along the side of the head will not be moved.

 

The fingers should be parted

 

Grab the floor with your feet

 

Breath deep breaths into the LDT (lower dan tien) often

 

In meditation find the center of your head - notice the tendency to be in the forward part or even outside the head a few inches.  Be in the LTD and grow from there and you will come to find the heart and the head joined in the trunk of awareness.

Breath into the center column of your body being from the root - the LDT 

 

Breath into the LDT  - feel the ground deep beneath your feet, the leg channels, the channels along the sides of the main channels in your torso. In the postures grab the ground and be in the LDT and breath good solid breath.

 

As always - watch Diet - it will change as unfolding takes place.

 

 

This helps a lot. For a while I was stuck up there in the forward part of the head, o outside of it. But just now,I tried to recreate what I got the two previous days, and completely ignored my head, and what happens there, and tried to focus like a Lazer on the ldt and it don't work as well,LOL.

 

One more question. During qigong, I feel it in my spine and hands and feet and sometimes legs, but not in the ldt. At least not the tremendous energy I feel in the ldt during meditation, where it feels like consciousness is expanding from there. Is this normal for a beginner, and if so, what are the stages of progression. This is what I find most difficult to get information about, what progress feels like and what's supposed to be happening.

[Spotless]

40 minutes ago, AugustGreig said:

This helps a lot. For a while I was stuck up there in the forward part of the head, o outside of it. But just now,I tried to recreate what I got the two previous days, and completely ignored my head, and what happens there, and tried to focus like a Lazer on the ldt and it don't work as well,LOL.

 

One more question. During qigong, I feel it in my spine and hands and feet and sometimes legs, but not in the ldt. At least not the tremendous energy I feel in the ldt during meditation, where it feels like consciousness is expanding from there. Is this normal for a beginner, and if so, what are the stages of progression. This is what I find most difficult to get information about, what progress feels like and what's supposed to be happening.

 

Continue to focus on the LDT

 

The info on the head region is good to know and habituate to when there: you can notice in mind looping noise that the tendency is forward in the head or just outside - most people are generally in trance and this is where they are most of the time.

 

What is "Normal" for a beginner is that they practice once a week and feel good for a bit and think it's great.

In general students often do not feel the LDT or and DT for some time. Most do not feel the feet and spine - quite a few can feel the hands.

 

It is very safe to say that you are progressing energetically very well however take real care on Diet and in working on inner refinement.

In each practice and in your prayers and meditation - bring to mind what you wish to work on - simply bring it to mind and then let it go - do not focus on it. Such things as quick to anger or strong willfulness or hatred or entrenched positioning, if it is from a clear example use that - each time you bring it up prior to a practice the energetic pattern vivifies and the practice breaks it down. 

 

Regarding the diet - you are transforming - this changes relationships.  This can be an incredibly difficult aspect but it does not have to be. Part of what you will work toward is more humility - it is needed - sharp wits may not find your changes any more than targets.

It is truely a time you feel more in touch with everything and more alone than ever - work with your throat and allow your communication to be in everything you do and with everything you see and touch and feel.

 

You are approaching practice from the intent to Awaken in a spiritual life - this is a life path - you have the worlds before you in this and can become what ever is your calling - the spiritual life as Householder or however. Refinement in the path is to your diligence and patience. Without patience refinement will be compressed and premature - with patience time will come to cease.

 

How you progress in Qi Gong is very much up to where you started from - you are a very sensitive embodiment - much more so than most. If you proceed without pushing the general unfolding is:

 

Feeling in the LDT and then a localized general awareness of it - if you are breathing into it and being in it and practicing regularly not as a personal power practice but one of general refinement - the taiji pole will begin to be felt. This will grow to be a very main feature of awareness. The leg and side channels will become noticed and at some point become a cohesive part of the general sensing of the channels during and outside of practice. 

 

Somewhere in these levels you may become bouyant and have a floating sensation while firmly grounded - it may never leave you from this point on.

 

At some point the channels will becoome very large and tubular and you may feel like "the Michelin Man" - these will then fuse into one.

The MCO will rise to become an incredible rotating column and then it to will subside and blend into the energetic systems. You may feel the great upper and lower areas beyond the head and below the waist appear - before this the head may have many happenings and this may be for many years.

 

As the head fully lights a great column from the base of the spine will take place and join the head - this will not be a great blasting of Kundalini - it will be the simple opening and pouring of it up the great back / inner back column. This will also pour into the heart and it ,will fill it like warm water the entire width of the chest. 

 

As all of this happens - you will generally find that tic's will develop during practice - the energy is so intense and is working through the bodies transformations. Tics meaning twitches. You may experience watery eyes or an endlessly runny nose.

 

You will find sickness comes and goes almost unnoticed and often it will stop completely during practice and then resume afterward.

 

Your scheduling needs to be attended to if you will be out and about or working - take care to sip in the incredible energies and be certain to have this with your body/being. The intention should not be to override anything in willfulness in order to expand and refine and grow - you will need sleep and sometimes you will need to change a practice schedule to meet with your needs. 

 

However - a regular practice schedule is very helpful.

 

I hope this has been of some help - all the best

 

 

 

[dosa]

When we turn the biogas into electricity by practising qigong, it creates heat, which we also store.
We need heat And if that’s all they wanted, that’s great.

[windwalker]

On 8/8/2018 at 7:08 PM, rideforever said:

So how to approach this ?

 

 

One might start by taking responsibility for thier own practice. 

 

Stop being concerned about what others do and focus  one's own body mind awareness.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by windwalker