How to cultivate detachment?

[oak]

Would like very much to know more about your ideas, practices and experiences. Thank you.

Here's a passage from a book that already has plenty to think about and work with:

 

[rideforever]

Sounds good apart from the last bit about creating a 2nd alternative self - that is not healthy, it's the kind of thing LSD people do.

 

Some other good exercises are in the following article, the early exercises are good, as are the I wish I can I am exercises at the end.

https://www.endlesssearch.co.uk/exercises_sensing.htm

 

 

[oak]

6 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Sounds good apart from the last bit about creating a 2nd alternative self - that is not healthy, it's the kind of thing LSD people do.

 

Some other good exercises are in the following article, the early exercises are good, as are the I wish I can I am exercises at the end.

https://www.endlesssearch.co.uk/exercises_sensing.htm

 

 

 

Thank you for your contribution rideforever.

[Fa Xin]

Observation can be a useful tool for beginning. But at some point you’ll have to come back to the things your running from. 

 

Acceptance of everything, especially the stuff that makes you want to detach... the stuff like expectations from others. Your not seperate from it, it’s very much there.  Instead of detaching, try full immersion and acceptance. Dive right in and face it. Then you can observe. 

[rideforever]

No worries mate, self-observation, watching the mind thought breath and so on, initially gives you distance and space to ... create a foundation for work.   But the goal is to become yourself.   So you can't sit there forever and watch things, it's just to create a stable foundation for work .... then the work of becoming yourself must begin, like FaXin is talking about.
(Shit, Sterling just scored for City. !!!!)

Without a stable foundation for work all you have is the mess of the subconscious mind.   When you do work one must always try to have stability or you become mixed with the mess of the mind.

Edited August 12, 2018 by rideforever

[oak]

18 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

Observation can be a useful tool for beginning. But at some point you’ll have to come back to the things your running from. 

 

Acceptance of everything, especially the stuff that makes you want to detach... the stuff like expectations from others. Your not seperate from it, it’s very much there.  Instead of detaching, try full immersion and acceptance. Dive right in and face it. Then you can observe. 

 

That is usually my approach Fa Xin. However spiritual traditions in general value detachment, that's why  I'm having this need to explore it a little. Being at this moment involved in a set of not-so-pleasant circumstances the weight of the suffering is reduced and I feel that the relief from that tension may help in creating new perspectives or a more realistic and acceptable way of living and dealing with my current problems.

[Fa Xin]

4 minutes ago, oak said:

 

That is usually my approach Fa Xin. However spiritual traditions in general value detachment, that's why  I'm having this need to explore it a little. Being at this moment involved in a set of not-so-pleasant circumstances the weight of the suffering is reduced and I feel that the relief from that tension may help in creating new perspectives or a more realistic and acceptable way of living and dealing with my current problems.

I see. I understand... Uncomfortable circumstances are not fun to go through. 

 

The detachment that ive experienced hasn’t really come from any one thing, just more of a natural byproduct from the sum total of things unfolding over the years. 

 

I kind of reached a point point where I accepted it was mostly out of my hands. No matter how much I tried to change things, the chips fell where they’d fall anyway. That’s what I meant by acceptance. Some people focus this into God or Shiva or Jesus. There’s lots of power in deities. Anyways, From this letting go, a naturally detached state arose. But I did not intend for it to happen. I placed my focus on spirit, and the material stuff naturally detached. “In this world but not of this world”

 

 

 

 

[oak]

37 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

Anyways, From this letting go, a naturally detached state arose. But I did not intend for it to happen. I placed my focus on spirit, and the material stuff naturally detached. “In this world but not of this world”

 

 

You see  you've found your way of getting there and are sharing it with us. That's what I intended when it came to me the idea of starting this thread.

The passage from Jack Swartz's book was just supposed to be an example and a conversation starter. 

I want to learn something from you guys!

[Lost in Translation]

Thanks for the interesting YouTube link. Double thanks for giving a short and to the point video!

 

I find all of what has already been said to be quite valuable. One item I would note is the choice of words. People respond to the same words differently. One person's "detachment" can be another person's "apathy." It's difficult to communicate when words don't convey the same exact meaning to all people.

 

I do think that the key is to balance between observing and experiencing. Tip too far to one side or the other and things fall apart. Lean too far towards observing? End up sitting near homeless on a park bench for a year like Eckhart Tolle. Lean too far towards experiencing? Everything becomes too personal and the defensive, victim mentality starts to form.

 

How does one observe while experiencing? How does one experience while observing? It takes practice, lots of practice.

[oak]

4 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

 

How does one observe while experiencing? How does one experience while observing? It takes practice, lots of practice.

 

Thanks for your contribution to this topic Lost in Translation. And yes everyone's interpretation of "detachment" is different.

What I like about Jack Schwarz was that he could demonstrate his detachment for example by sticking needles in his arms without feeling pain and self-healing immediately. He used to say that this radical demonstrations had the purpose of proving his perspective of life.

[doc benway]

3 hours ago, oak said:

Would like very much to know more about your ideas, practices and experiences. Thank you.

 

Hi Oak,

First, a few thoughts about the word detachment and its connotations.

Detachment often implies disconnection, distance, or aloofness. That is not at all what is meant in a spiritual context.

In a spiritual context, perhaps the most important characteristics we can cultivate are connectedness, openness, and warmth.

These are the polar opposites of what we often associate with detachment. 

 

Our fundamental problem is ignorance, not knowing our self at a fundamental level. 

Not knowing who we are causes us to identify with who we are not. 

We over-identify with various roles in our life which are determined by relationship - father, daughter, lover, boss, addict, religious or political identity, and so forth. When powerful feelings come up, they are a sign of that over-identification. Whatever identity we attach ourselves to is not who we are, it is simply a set of behavioral, intellectual, and emotional patterns based on circumstances. We are far more than any of those identities but who we truly are is much more subtle and elusive and does not need to be defined for this approach to be effective.

 

So in a spiritual context, detachment refers to dis-identifying with those habitual patterns related to circumstance and relationship. One still feels what one feels. One still can feel pain and fear and love very deeply, perhaps more deeply than when the false set of expectations and identification get in the way. What does change is the feeling that all of this is serious and solid. There can be more of a feeling of allowing things to be as they are, a playfulness, almost like watching a story unfold in a movie or book rather than being stuck in one of the character's bodies. There is a bit of freedom and stability, a confidence, a faith, that goes beyond the transient identification with circumstances. There is some space there, a feeling of openness and unlimited potential that can be very supportive.

 

Here are some practical suggestions -

Pay attention whenever a strong feeling or reactive behavior manifests in your life. Notice the stimulus, notice the reaction. This takes time and patience and is supported by mindfulness practice. When you are able to notice the reaction, ask yourself what role(s) in your life you are over-identifying with. Is it the father concerned for his son's well-being? Is it the employee tired of her boss's abuse? Is it the lover frustrated by their partner's behavior? Whatever... At that moment, remind yourself that this identity is just a set of expectations and conditioned behaviors based on our upbringing, our culture, our education, our biology - a set of circumstance associated with a specific relationship. It's not always a simply one to one relationship, there can be combinations of relationships and identities that can be quite complex but they are always there if you look carefully. Recognize that this role is just a limited aspect of the totality of your being. You are far more than that. You don't need to define what it is that you are to see that this limited slice of mis-identification is only a small fragment of your potential. When that insight is there, can you feel a little space? A little room to rest and simply be? Enough openness to allow things to be as they are and still feel OK? Perhaps things feels just a bit less solid and serious and maybe there is room for a feeling of playfulness and trust, even when circumstances are challenging.

 

That is how I work with detachment, at least in part. 

I hope you find that helpful.

 

Warm regards

 

edited to add - sorry, but I didn't watch the video yet...

 

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2018 by steve

[oak]

38 minutes ago, steve said:

 

Hi Oak,

First, a few thoughts about the word detachment and its connotations.

Detachment often implies disconnection, distance, or aloofness. That is not at all what is meant in a spiritual context.

In a spiritual context, perhaps the most important characteristics we can cultivate are connectedness, openness, and warmth.

These are the polar opposites of what we often associate with detachment. 

 

Our fundamental problem is ignorance, not knowing our self at a fundamental level. 

Not knowing who we are causes us to identify with who we are not. 

We over-identify with various roles in our life which are determined by relationship - father, daughter, lover, boss, addict, religious or political identity, and so forth. When powerful feelings come up, they are a sign of that over-identification. Whatever identity we attach ourselves to is not who we are, it is simply a set of behavioral, intellectual, and emotional patterns based on circumstances. We are far more than any of those identities but who we truly are is much more subtle and elusive and does not need to be defined for this approach to be effective.

 

So in a spiritual context, detachment refers to dis-identifying with those habitual patterns related to circumstance and relationship. One still feels what one feels. One still can feel pain and fear and love very deeply, perhaps more deeply than when the false set of expectations and identification get in the way. What does change is the feeling that all of this is serious and solid. There can be more of a feeling of allowing things to be as they are, a playfulness, almost like watching a story unfold in a movie or book rather than being stuck in one of the character's bodies. There is a bit of freedom and stability, a confidence, a faith, that goes beyond the transient identification with circumstances. There is some space there, a feeling of openness and unlimited potential that can be very supportive.

 

Here are some practical suggestions -

Pay attention whenever a strong feeling or reactive behavior manifests in your life. Notice the stimulus, notice the reaction. This takes time and patience and is supported by mindfulness practice. When you are able to notice the reaction, ask yourself what role(s) in your life you are over-identifying with. Is it the father concerned for his son's well-being? Is it the employee tired of her boss's abuse? Is it the lover frustrated by their partner's behavior? Whatever... At that moment, remind yourself that this identity is just a set of expectations and conditioned behaviors based on our upbringing, our culture, our education, our biology - a set of circumstance associated with a specific relationship. It's not always a simply one to one relationship, there can be combinations of relationships and identities that can be quite complex but they are always there if you look carefully. Recognize that this role is just a limited aspect of the totality of your being. You are far more than that. You don't need to define what it is that you are to see that this limited slice of mis-identification is only a small fragment of your potential. When that insight is there, can you feel a little space? A little room to rest and simply be? Enough openness to allow things to be as they are and still feel OK? Perhaps things feels just a bit less solid and serious and maybe there is room for a feeling of playfulness and trust, even when circumstances are challenging.

 

That is how I work with detachment, at least in part. 

I hope you find that helpful.

 

Warm regards

 

edited to add - sorry, but I didn't watch the video yet...

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Steve!

 

Thank you so much for taking your time in explaining thoroughly your approach on detachment. Great contribution.

I will give these thoughts the time and attention they need to be grasped.

 

Blessings my friend.

 

[oak]

2 minutes ago, oak said:

 

 

Blessings my friend.

 

 

Lol,

Blessings friend!

[Small Fur]

6 hours ago, oak said:

Would like very much to know more about your ideas, practices and experiences. Thank you.

Here's a passage from a book that already has plenty to think about and work with:

 

 

 

 

 

The direct process to detachment is not one of learning more skills from which to hone and thus ‘cultivate’ an understanding from per se, rather it is the stripping away of or continual loss of what was once thought to be known.  

 

Detachment happens not because we force, supress, reject or attempt to get rid of desire, rather it is through increasing insight and experiential embodiment of profound understandings that we come to realize the true impracticality and futility of desire.

 

When the courage to know the truth becomes the actual experience of embodying those truths, then true understanding results in a profound harmonious indifference- one that recognizes the unity already inherent in all things and thus requires no desire to fulfill, as well as the simultaneous non-existence of things from which there is nothing to fulfill.

 

The best practices are rooted in the foundation of a self-sincerity in courage to know truth.  Mustering the strength to bear an idea or concept of what you think is truthful is not necessarily the condition I am pointing to. Real courage and real truth, is a resolved understanding in experience- it has no resistance, takes no effort, relinquishes striving and effort, and is afforded through absolute willingness in faith to witness. 

 

The best beginning practice that prepares us for this is meditation. Though meditation as a practice is foundationaly healthful for all in most any regard, not all meditations are the same. Thus, understanding and practicing a method of meditation that through diligence and focus can instill stillness in silence, this is the meditation best suited to realizing detachment.

 

And one of the most useful lifestyle methods I could suggest to accompany this practice in still silence, is to strip yourself of all concepts, ideas and even things. Thus be mindful of all forms of consumption; reduce and remove as many as forms of consumption as possible. Purify your body, your mind, your heart, your home and environment; in short, leave little left to be pondered. Look, see, feel and experience without prior idea, without words, without concepts. When you can do this- when you can witness without even a sound of movement in your system, you will begin to know what belies form. You will begin to touch into what is formless. 

 

In the light of nothing, detachment becomes the vital state to profound peace.

 

 

 

[oak]

21 minutes ago, Small Fur said:

 

 

 

 

The direct process to detachment is not one of learning more skills from which to hone and thus ‘cultivate’ an understanding from per se, rather it is the stripping away of or continual loss of what was once thought to be known.  

 

Detachment happens not because we force, supress, reject or attempt to get rid of desire, rather it is through increasing insight and experiential embodiment of profound understandings that we come to realize the true impracticality and futility of desire.

 

When the courage to know the truth becomes the actual experience of embodying those truths, then true understanding results in a profound harmonious indifference- one that recognizes the unity already inherent in all things and thus requires no desire to fulfill, as well as the simultaneous non-existence of things from which there is nothing to fulfill.

 

The best practices are rooted in the foundation of a self-sincerity in courage to know truth.  Mustering the strength to bear an idea or concept of what you think is truthful is not necessarily the condition I am pointing to. Real courage and real truth, is a resolved understanding in experience- it has no resistance, takes no effort, relinquishes striving and effort, and is afforded through absolute willingness in faith to witness. 

 

The best beginning practice that prepares us for this is meditation. Though meditation as a practice is foundationaly healthful for all in most any regard, not all meditations are the same. Thus, understanding and practicing a method of meditation that through diligence and focus can instill stillness in silence, this is the meditation best suited to realizing detachment.

 

And one of the most useful lifestyle methods I could suggest to accompany this practice in still silence, is to strip yourself of all concepts, ideas and even things. Thus be mindful of all forms of consumption; reduce and remove as many as forms of consumption as possible. Purify your body, your mind, your heart, your home and environment; in short, leave little left to be pondered. Look, see, feel and experience without prior idea, without words, without concepts. When you can do this- when you can witness without even a sound of movement in your system, you will begin to know what belies form. You will begin to touch into what is formless. 

 

In the light of nothing, detachment becomes the vital state to profound peace.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your contribution Small Fur!

[Marblehead]

I think detachment is still rooted in "letting go".

 

But let's not let go of everything.  You would no longer have a purpose.

 

[oak]

52 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I think detachment is still rooted in "letting go".

 

But let's not let go of everything.  You would no longer have a purpose.

 

 

I've heard that's the only way to understant Dao's purpose for us, not to have any purpose. Well, only spiritual athletes get that far anyway...

[oak]

58 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I think detachment is still rooted in "letting go".

 

But let's not let go of everything.  You would no longer have a purpose.

 

 

And believe me, right now I wouldn't mind changing my life for the life of a jellyfish!

 

[Marblehead]

5 minutes ago, oak said:

 

I've heard that's the only way to understant Dao's purpose for us, not to have any purpose. Well, only spiritual athletes get that far anyway...

Yeah, if we had no body what worries would we have?

 

No physicality means nothing to hold on to.  How much fun would life be without physical existence?

 

 

 

[Marblehead]

3 minutes ago, oak said:

 

And believe me, right now I wouldn't mind changing my life for the life of a jellyfish!

 

I laughed because I know that feeling too.

 

But nothing lasts forever.  And sometimes if we give a little push things start rolling.

 

[rene]

2 hours ago, oak said:

 

And believe me, right now I wouldn't mind changing my life for the life of a jellyfish!

 

Aw..you just need to get to Denmark. Any word yet?

[Marblehead]

10 minutes ago, rene said:

Aw..you just need to get to Denmark. Any word yet?

Yes, I think life returns to most men who visit the Nordic countries.

 

[Lost in Translation]

17 hours ago, Small Fur said:

we come to realize the true impracticality and futility of desire

 

17 hours ago, Small Fur said:

true understanding results in a profound harmonious indifference

 

I believe these two phrases contain much wisdom. Often (too often, IMHO) we "do spirit" rather than simple "be spirit." It's hard to "do" something that tells you to "not do."

 

 

 

[oak]

1 hour ago, rene said:

Aw..you just need to get to Denmark. Any word yet?

 

Working on it (meanwhile I'm moving to the south of England near the salty sea). If things don't get better here, hopefully I'll manage to move to vikingland still this year. Thanks for the push rene 

[silent thunder]

The Sage is in the world, but not of it. 

 

This phrase changed my experience of life when it saturated awareness.  Being present in the world, without trying to carry it.  Participating fully without taking it personally. 

 

The Sage veritably dances through the world, dancing the dance, connected, healing, working, playing, fully present, yet not entirely invested, in the end, it's still only a dance.  No matter what occurs our essential nature is spotless, unstainable, never cracked, broken or marred by the dance of life. 

 

When dancing, I move through the music across the floor, there is no predestined time or place to arrive.  Unless I manufacture one.  I dance through the music (environment) and movement (decisions/actions) arises in natural expression of connected presence.  When releasing a need to end up in a particular spot on the floor (condition in life), I am able to release more fully into presence.  When present without taking it personally (thinking things should be different), I am utterly, perfectly, exactly where I am... should and shouldn't fall away as irrelevant.  The center is everywhere.  Bliss is a natural state.

 

Participating fully without taking the world personally has become 'the art' that I cultivate and it's coming around as the cycles play out... but only when I release openly and fully, without projecting or holding back, nothing kept sacred, all open to flow and change.   Release the outmoded forms of thought and identification with emotions that bind me to unhealthy reactions based on should and shouldn't, but not to the point where it breeds harsh unconnected closed heartedness, or overly emotional fancy and fantasy.  It doesn't do to release in a harsh analytical manner, any more than it does to release in an utterly disconnected fantasy, with no attention to detail, or presence in the eternal now.

 

True Release to me is about releasing into full presence, into authentic essential nature.  It is not about 'not giving a shit what others think or do', or 'being above it all', or 'simply hardening the heart and not caring'... nor is it about not giving a shit what I do and its effect on the planet and others... letting the world do its thing without a care or connection.  Quite the opposite.  It is releasing fully into what is, as it is... now.  As I have release that which is not part of my essential nature, notions of self that were handed to me by my well meaning parents and by a not so well meaning society/school system/government, my heart opened and when the heart began unfolding, awareness and presence unfolded and the intricately interconnected nature of life beams all about me, no matter the circumstances.

 

When I take action, I release fully into it.  When I love, I release wholly into this emanation.  When no action is required, I release fully into not doing a thing, with no regret, or guilt.  Release into presence... in the end, what else is there?

 

Bit by bit, I move in and through social situations as I move through my forms, with awareness, presence, open to shift... flow, without predetermined expectations.  When conditions shift, respond naturally, spontaneously and fully accept what arises, whether you will act to bring shift, act to move on, or not act and simply abide, in presence and acceptance, the center is everywhere and the Sage dances through it.

 

It's blissful to participate in the game of life, without taking it personally, or having to demean or devalue it to protect my essential nature.  There is now the unshakable knowingness that at our core, our essential nature is truly spotless, unbreakable, unstainable, never lost and ever present.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by silent thunder
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