Inaugural Book Selection - Taoist Yoga

[mYTHmAKER]

Yes, each phase has all five within it, just like a child has all his/her parents and grandparents and ancestors within, as well as all his/her own future children! That, in addition to each phase having a yin aspect and a yang aspect, so Yin Water may well come close to Metal while Yang Water might start manifesting some aspects of Wood behavior -- at the very outer margins of each process the distinctions start to blur... so you can stab someone with an icicle, hit them in the head with an ice cube -- that's Yin Water behaving indistinguishably from Metal for some purposes...

 

I never looked at it that way either but it makes perfect sense

and becomes obvious once it is pointed out.

Simply everything is in transition. The only constant is change.

Thanks

[Taomeow]

Glad to make sense, Mythmaker! --

you're right, it's all obvious and in fact it was meant to be obvious -- "the way of Heaven is easy and the way of Earth is simple" -- it's only when one starts, not from the start but from some "next step," "bigger-better more advanced" place, any which random place where complexity is already rampant, that confusion arises. That's why I go basics basics basics -- if you start from the fundamental and go step by step, each step is like that, simple and easy. Then you look back at the territory you've covered and whoa, ten thousand things! But they are all like that -- one, two, three, clear. Next step...

[Onigiri]

 

Rather than waste a few more days with a poll on basic books, I'm going to make Eva Wong's : The Shambala Guide to Taoism our first selection.

I would like to start discussing it ~ March 1st but we can always delay that by a week or two if some of us are late getting our copies - please let us know if that is a problem.

 

I hope no one is too disappointed. Things will be more democratic moving forward. I just think it's important for us to get started and see what happens.

 

Let the games begin!!!!

 

 

Excellent. If I'm not being too fussy, could you make a new thread as it's still saying that the Taoist Yoga is the first book. If someone new comes in it's going to take a lot of reading on several threads to find this decision. Thanks for the work you're doing

[Pietro]

I'm going to have to disagree with you Craig. We discuss a lot more on this forum than Daoism and I'd prefer that we not limit ourselves too much. I'd like to see us have the freedom to make recommendations from a wider range and the book selection process will take care of the rest.

Well, we surely have the freedom to suggest any book we want, but for me I will generally suggest, vote and read only taoist books. I might make exceptions, but I don't see this happening at the moment.

 

...

Rather than waste a few more days with a poll on basic books, I'm going to make Eva Wong's : The Shambala Guide to Taoism our first selection.

I would like to start discussing it ~ March 1st but we can always delay that by a week or two if some of us are late getting our copies - please let us know if that is a problem.

 

I hope no one is too disappointed. Things will be more democratic moving forward. I just think it's important for us to get started and see what happens.

...

LOL

That cuts the problem of the decision rule at the root!

 

One thing I haven't understood? Are we going each to read and re-read the whole book or can we discuss chapter by chapter. Because I think that most of the juice will flow if we discuss it WHILE we are reading it. This will also push us to read it. (I need to get the chapter by ... or I will just be a witness and taomeaw will bully me all the way, hey wait she will do it anyway, so it doesn't matter ).

 

Would you be willing to give us some end of chapters dates?

 

Pietro

 

...

Simply everything is in transition. The only constant is change.

...

Which explains how a book like the i-ching could ever be written.

[三江源]

I'm pleased Eva Wong is the first choice.

 

I agree very strongly with Pietro that we need to be all on the same page at the same time in order to discuss it most fruitfully.

 

Chapter dates.

 

BTW. About the five phases being energy in movement with blurring at the edges and replication of the phases within the phases ad infintum. The thing is--- this is a holographic image, rather than a mental map with a Mondrian influence. It's good to remember that we are talking about energy, and to imagine it in the air floating next to us,in us, all around us, rather than equate it to the diagrams we see on a page.

 

I also agree that the getting of wisdom is an an inevitable proccess for some. Regardless of what they are reading.

[Mal]

It's good to remember that we are talking about energy, and to imagine it in the air floating next to us,in us, all around us, rather than equate it to the diagrams we see on a page.

 

Very true

"One vitality first divides in two, the positive and negative which, by taking fixed positions, then beget the five elements, each in a different location. Hence the element of earth causes that of metal to develop, that of wood to prosper, that of water to stop and that of fire to cease."

So if this is right

Then really there is no way to make "sense" of the above quote, except in this sort of relationship.

Water (水)

Metal (金)

Earth (土)

Wood (木)

Fire (火)

 

Which is really confusing systems, I think I finally understand a bit of what Taomeow was getting at.

[WhiteTiger]

Technicalities aside I totally agree with Taomeow's emphasis that Fire/Earth/Metal/Water/Wood not be seen as 5 elements. I used to see them this way too. They are 5 phases. 5 ways that energy moves. They are not seperate as Yin and Yang are not separate. YinYang is relative and flowing from one to the other. The 5 phases are descriptions of energy patterns, not descriptions of things. And to make matters even harder to wrap your head around I hear the words of my teacher from just this last weekend "each of the 5 has all 5 within it".

 

Makes complete and total sense now that you put it that way. Now understanding why my teacher explained that the practicing of Xing Yi functions are called functions and not elements... sadly (time for more bad mouthing my old teacher) they didn't teach me the exact reason the practicing of the 5 functions (in Xing Yi) are called functions when i first learned them accidentally when around saying "I practice the 5 elements in Xing Yi" I guess we all know how little my teacher either knew, or how little my teacher really wanted to actually teach of Xing Yi to students. Sad and depressing. On top of that why wouldn't he clearly identify why he doesn't want to teach others or me? *sigh* more things to ponder.

 

VCraigP i appreciate the fact you take time to actually type things out on TTB website.

 

 

The enthusiasm for C.Luk's "Alchemy and immortality seems to mostly derive from Drew's enthusiastic and repetitive nods to it as a source of inspiration and clarification. Which raises another question in my mind. Is it possible to get true inspriation and make true progress from a source which might be flawed but still provides enough clues to advance one's investigation?

 

Extremely well put. In fact I would say quite intelligent. (of course I'm sure you don't think much of a beginner with such low experience gives you approval) personally i ponder why you even made an attempt to come away from being so neutral and disclaiming taomeow's view point on the book. Well at least disclaim or point out the flaw in her persuasive paragraph's why she is against the book and the way she tries to get others to try and read another.

 

Taomeow, I didn't say that all a sudden against you. Of course you should understand that i will always claim the side of my own, thoughts, beliefs, freedom of thinking, my own choice to choose what I want. Yet i have nothing against you what so ever. I in fact think you to be extremely knowledgeable. But I would like to ask you why you purposely claim to not read good or decent books about Taoism itself, and/or practices of Taoism and rather read other books. I mean the books you mentioned have lots of merit. Don't get me wrong i understand each book that isn't taoist that you named already are great reads and their have there reasons for reading them. Shall i go Christan on everyone and say those books have their fruits. And in no way am i disclaiming the books you suggested that were not directly of Taoist practices or wrotin by taoists practitioners?

 

Are the merits more important that learning a foundation directly with taoism. If i were in a meditation class that required me to read books and so forth it would be a different story. This is because in a meditation class we would already directly learning and understanding of Taoist principles and practices. Yet we actually are not in a meditation class. Sadly, you do these sorts of things, while Taomeow, you are much further along the path then me, and some others of us. Some of us aren't doing taoist practices why not choose a book on taoism. (Taomeow, you choose like 5 books that weren't directly about taoism) When personally my understanding about taoism is what i would consider small to yours. Why wait around 3 months at the least before reading about taoism? I'm sorry i'm just confused can you please clearify for me. I think i have stated in many different ways what exactly i'm missing here.

 

 

One more thing. Let's keep the book subject matter limited to Taoism. Krisnamurti and the other one suggested may be gems, but they are decidedly not Taoist in origin.

 

Craig

 

Why?

 

P.S. VCraigP, I'm not opposed to the idea, I'm just wondering why you want it this wa

[mYTHmAKER]

I am interested at this time in Daoist books only.

For me taoism explains how the universe works

which apply regardless of ones religious god creator beliefs.

Taoism a guide to understanding the rules. We can never explain the ruler

but we can live in harmony with the rules.

 

I wish to keep it simple. If I can understand the basics I have the potential to

understand everything and anything.

Going beyond basics is the point where confusion begins. We get opinion and religion.

My teacher taught me to study my form and keep going back to the foundation - everything is contained in the foundation. We can't build anything if there is no foundation.

[VCraigP]

P.S. VCraigP, I'm not opposed to the idea, I'm just wondering why you want it this way?

 

WT

 

Well to be simple I could just say....TTB stands for The TAO bums. Taoism is my interest. Not Buddhism, not Hinduism etc.

And it seems likely this would be the common denominator among all interested parties.

I would rather delve more deeply in one still broad topic - Taoism - than open up to wander the stacks of any eastern philosophy or beyond.

 

Craig

[Taomeow]

The thing is--- this is a holographic image, rather than a mental map with a Mondrian influence.

Great. Now, by virtue of some mysterious reverse psychology process, I'm stuck with a Mondrianesque Wuxing sculpture in my mind's eye. Thanks a lot!

Edited February 6, 2008 by Taomeow

[Taomeow]

White Tiger (cool name, but you can tell I'm partial to feline-referenced names... by the way, do you know what it signifies in taoism? A very rich image, but it's usually White Tigress in the classics, female, the yang side of true yin, the dangerous side of yin, the aspects of yin men secretly fear and women secretly derive their strength from... In the alchemical process, it's the mating of Tigress and Dragon, unlike in most translations where they seem to be both male and therefore engage, inadvertently or intentionally, in a gay version of the alchemical process. And then someone practices that and expects to conceive the Immortal Fetus... as impossible in a gay internal-alchemical process as it is impossible in ordinary gay sex to conceive an ordinary human one. Just and aside -- but again down the same alley: it's useful to get the fundamentals straight... pun unintentional) --

 

why I want to learn about taoism preferably from taoists? Because taoism is impossible to understand from the outside looking in. Whatever they see when looking at it like that, no matter in how much detail, isn't it. Taoism is, while I'm on sexual metaphors, not unlike sex -- an expert who has read all the scientific, medical, erotic, etc. literature, has seen all the pictures, artistic to pornographic, rented all the X rated videos, knows what every position is called in Kama Sutra, and can write volumes about sex but is himself or herself celibate wouldn't be my choice of sexual partner if I didn't know what sex is and wanted to find out. Taoism is exactly like that, far as I've been able to discern.

Edited February 6, 2008 by Taomeow

[freesun]

I just checked, being in Germany it takes around 6 weeks to get Eva wong's book delivered (Taoist Yoga took "only" three weeks). I still whole heartedly support the choice though and I'm sure I can catch up!

[Pietro]

I just checked, being in Germany it takes around 6 weeks to get Eva wong's book delivered (Taoist Yoga took "only" three weeks). I still whole heartedly support the choice though and I'm sure I can catch up!

I found that from germany it was much faster to order american books directly from amazon.com, then from amazon.de

 

Although it might be a bit more costly. Since the extra cost in the package, I tend to buy books from amazon.com in goups of 3. 3 makes up for one box. More books often moean more box, thus the package cost rises. Less books means that the package cost is less convenient. But they would generally arrive in a couple of weeks.

[affenbrot]

I found that from germany it was much faster to order american books directly from amazon.com, then from amazon.de

 

Although it might be a bit more costly. Since the extra cost in the package, I tend to buy books from amazon.com in goups of 3. 3 makes up for one box. More books often moean more box, thus the package cost rises. Less books means that the package cost is less convenient. But they would generally arrive in a couple of weeks.

 

for english book I usually go to their ~ co.uk site, they have most of what is on the ~ .com site and much quicker of course to send it to germany; then I also have very good experience with caiman usa they can be super fast, sometimes books arrived the same week I ordered, from usa to germany.

[freesun]

for english book I usually go to their ~ co.uk site, they have most of what is on the ~ .com site and much quicker of course to send it to germany; then I also have very good experience with caiman usa they can be super fast, sometimes books arrived the same week I ordered, from usa to germany.

 

I usually order from a german retailer (buch.de), which in this case would be much cheaper (half the price when compared to co.uk) . So i guess its price versus speed

[doc benway]

Excellent. If I'm not being too fussy, could you make a new thread as it's still saying that the Taoist Yoga is the first book. If someone new comes in it's going to take a lot of reading on several threads to find this decision. Thanks for the work you're doing

Excellent idea!

 

 

I'm pleased Eva Wong is the first choice.

 

I agree very strongly with Pietro that we need to be all on the same page at the same time in order to discuss it most fruitfully.

 

Chapter dates.

 

I'll work on something - more great ideas! Thanks

[doc benway]

I've opened the new first book thread and will close this one for clarity's sake.