Does Liuhebafa Exist ?

[rideforever]

Hello.

 

I have been looking through dozens of practitioners doing Liuhebafa in the last few weeks, and it seems to me they are more or less all doing different things.  Sure there are small clumps of people doing a similar interpretation, but by and large there is no Liuhebafa, is there ?   If they are doing different types of movements different emphasis some staggering, some flowing, some hip based, some this some that.   What's the similarity ?   Is there anything similar or is it just the same name and sort of same movements ... but actually completely different ?

 

And so how are you supposed to "do it properly", then ?   What does it mean to do it properly ?   Pick one teacher you like and copy ?

 

Christianity .... degenerated over the years until it was exactly upside down and then the wars in Christianity's name began.   Very strange things happen on this planet.   You start with white, and then 100 years later you have black, but somehow it carries the same badge.   Inside it's all changed.

 

Sigh.....

 

Some styles like Chen Taiji seem more fixed, but also a bit repressed ... the more institutional they are the more certain you are of them - because everyone is exactly the same - .... well is that good ?   Maybe not.

 

Been watching BKF's Heaven & Earth DVD, and for such a small movement there is a great deal of work that could be done in it, a lot.   But I supposed one hungers for a longer practice ... probably in the end you'd get more from the shorter practice.

 

With the Liuhebafa a lot of the people they do the movements in such a way that they are completely not ready for combat, legs are .... just standing there side by side .... anyone could push these guys over.    So what does that mean ?

 

I have the sense often that farmers, and workers, physical people .... can be trusted because they get their hands dirty with the life.   They are physically engaged.   And their work is good.   And their ways are good.   A their forms are good.

 

But people who are of weak bodies .... who talk of "energies" .... are they just cowards who have gone into their heads ?    Can you trust their forms ?   Maybe not.

 

Some teachers I have seen add in a bit of "energy detail", a Laogong here, a Leg Three Miles there .... they give you a big smile and mention these gates.   Is it convincing ?   Or are they trying to convince themselves ?   Maybe they know nothing.    Maybe they specifically remember a couple of gates just to ... prevent you realising that they have no idea what they are doing.

 

What are we doing ?

 

There is this famous tattooed Tai Chi teacher in NY, forget his name, but he's been around .... he says that in the end you fight .... because you like fighting.   And I thought he was right, although I would add that "fighting" is just a means for testing truth in life, and so growing.   Every fight is a test of reality.

 

Anyway not sure what to say of Liuhebafa, perhaps i was looking for that water secret .... in a world of murky water .... maybe I should just stick to the people I like, and place my spirit with theirs.   
Maybe that's all there is, in the end.   
Maybe if there is an ancient secret, I have to hew it out of the rock with my own hands.

 

 

 

[Chang]

Liuhebafa like other internal martial arts has to be judged with care.

 

You point out the differences shown by various practitioners but you must remember that Liuhebafa is one of the less practiced arts. Were you to view practitioners of Yang Style Tai Chi you would find a miriad of different interpretations of the form not to mention diferent levels of ability.

 

When viewed as a martial art then the ultimate judgement must be whether or not it works as regards combat. If viewed from a New Age, touchy feely, health and wellbeing perspective then you must look to see if it is indeed good for our health.

 

My own view is that most teachers of the Internal Arts are sadly lacking in both knowledge and ability, having little idea regarding the basic priciples on which to build a solid foundation for development. Without a solid foundation there is no prospect of realistic improvement and opening of the gateway to the miraculous.

 

Liuhebafa is no different to any other Internal Style but it is easy to see how, owing to its scacity of teachers, it may appear as something rare and special.

 

In reality the "rare and special" is present in all of these arts but your greatest difficulty is in finding someone with knowledge and understanding who is willing to teach it to others.

[thelerner]

Seems to me there are 11 important steps in choosing a martial art. 

Step one, is it taught in your area, or at a place you can get to (or take frequent seminars)

If not, do not go to step 2, repeat step one with another art. 

[rideforever]

47 minutes ago, thelerner said:

 

 

Yes or you can say, is there anyone near me who can teach anything Real.   Whatever it is, learn it.

 

Alternatively you can say, as a being of the universe I sense reality directly, it is for me to create what it is I seek.   One cannot spend life as a student, that is just to misunderstand things.    Life is the block that we must carve, there is nothing hidden, no secret, except that you are the carver and best get to work.   

 

What your spirit is attracted to ... should be acknowledged and find your own people.   There is no sense in doing anything else, as you can only ever be yourself.

 

The ability to create out of nothing what you wish, to create yourself, is the ultimate power.

[ronaldk]

General

The Lui He Ba Fa Form creates a lot of energy.

I learned some of it.

 

What to do if you cannot find your favorite art?

 

my best advice is to lay the foundation.

Meaning if Liu He Ba Fa is not available then train the three classical chinese internal arts Hsing Yi Bagua and Tai chi.

 

example from another school

 

• You will notice that Bruce Kumar Frantzis does the same with his students that want to become strong.
• He gives them always SANTI practise and later moves them to Tai chi or Bagua practise.
• Bruce used to work with the chen pan ling form that exists out of Hsing yi bagua and other movements.
• He mentioned that his students got more benefit practising these arts seperate "tasting" their energies and clearly distinguishing them.
• Later when they do this complex form they got better results and a deeper experience.

 

Wish you lots of Good Luck

 

When you finally find a Liu He Ba Fa teacher you will get more out of the training.

Or you might meet a Liu he Ba fa teacher will you are training Hsing Yi or Bagua.

since this art is the crown jewel most teachers that know it do not go advertising it.

 

[thelerner]

5 hours ago, rideforever said:

 

   One cannot spend life as a student, that is just to misunderstand things.  

 

We, Learners can do it .  In my 13 years of Aikido much time was spent on learning to breathe, sit and walk correctly.  Basics basics basics.  We learned technique, inorder to forget it.  During the highest level classes the sensei would say, 'No technique, I don't want to see any technique here'.    

[rideforever]

On 16/08/2018 at 9:52 PM, ronaldk said:

General

• He gives them always SANTI practise and later moves them to Tai chi or Bagua practise.

 

Interestingly I have  just been learning Santi and found immense benefits even in a few days.   Very good for clearing blockages from leg trauma.

I also just received an email from a senior teacher in one of the big Liuhebafa Associations, and he warned me that claims to authenticity are to be taken lightly ... also his assoc no longer teaches.

 

My assessment is that there are several traditional type old men who teach what they know, around.   Their forms are eroded and they don't know what they are doing.   Most have little active interest in the work.    Liu Xialing who is famous and made the "best DVD" for instance in his interview it is clear he think Liuhebafa is partly dead and encourages students to grow it, and he performs it accurately but academically..

 

The only group I see that is actively growing it comes from the Liang family in Vancouver ?   I have now see 4 students of theirs all with strong living forms.   So I go with them.   Easy choice.

 

Also I have a number of warmups in the Xingyi Bagua tradition that I do, as well as Wush ChangQuan.

And that's the best I can do.
Get busy living or ...

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Wrote before i had a chance to digest my thinking, edited out.

 

Good you found that Vancouver family!

 

Hard to say if anything is ever dead, academical people dont always get the answers they search for because they are academics. Sad but true

Edited August 20, 2018 by Rocky Lionmouth

[rideforever]

Also I completely love this form, I can do about 1/3 or it now and it's Water Element fantastic.
The students coming out of the Liang line are very good and inspiring, and clear.