Forgetting about power and depth, what cultivation systems are most clear and simple?

[whitesilk]

Marblehead we all are, whether you are 3, 33, or 73

[silent thunder]

some of us were crotchedy old men @ 17

and some are still dancing @ 77

 

while i embody the middle way and dance crotchedly @ 49

 

 

[Cheshire Cat]

A question to @thelerner

 

I'm curious: isn't the Wim Hof method simple and clear enough? Happy, strong and Healthy?

[thelerner]

1 hour ago, Cheshire Cat said:

A question to @thelerner

 

I'm curious: isn't the Wim Hof method simple and clear enough? Happy, strong and Healthy?

Simple yes, clear.. they can be a little ambiguous sometimes, especially the first course, but there's a facebook site that's pretty good on giving answers and lots of youtube videos and solid articles and podcasts.  I'd also agree with strong and healthy. 

 

Best of all its presented as a ten week course, and there's much happiness and satisfaction when one finishes it.  Plus you've gained some solid breath skills and cold adaption.  I highly recommend it, with a caveat to be careful doing the breath retention pushups, especially if you're older, out of shape or have had high blood pressure. 

 

So great method, but not really a cultivation system but a nice supplement.  Not traditional tummo either but for cold adaption it does a good job.  And most of us will face severe cold a couple times a year, one may as well make friends with it. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by thelerner

[whitesilk]

On 8/16/2018 at 10:23 AM, thelerner said:

satisfying as a Snickers

 

How about some 'coldstone creamery' ? 'gotta have it' is how I currently approach my practice.

[thelerner]

1 minute ago, whitesilk said:

 

How about some 'coldstone creamery' ? 'gotta have it' is how I currently approach my practice.

i gotta stop typing and eating at the same time

[Cheshire Cat]

20 hours ago, thelerner said:

[...]

 

So great method, but not really a cultivation system but a nice supplement.  Not traditional tummo either but for cold adaption it does a good job.  And most of us will face severe cold a couple times a year, one may as well make friends with it. 

 

Forgive me for turning this thread into self-analisys stuff, but I'm a bit confused.

 

You said in this very thread that you "don't want anything too crazy, just a slow road to superior health and happiness.  No powers or siddhis, rather self control and  positive mental attitude" and that's pretty much what WH method does.

Then, you specify here that this is not really a cultivation system and this leads me to the next question...

 

clear and simple cultivation of what?

 

 

 

[thelerner]

4 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

Forgive me for turning this thread into self-analisys stuff, but I'm a bit confused.

 

You said in this very thread that you "don't want anything too crazy, just a slow road to superior health and happiness.  No powers or siddhis, rather self control and  positive mental attitude" and that's pretty much what WH method does.

Then, you specify here that this is not really a cultivation system and this leads me to the next question...

 

clear and simple cultivation of what?

 

As I stated earlier, I don't want this to be about me, or what I want.  I'm looking for members to discuss what they consider to be a simple, clear systems. 

I consider WH method, a little crazy, and so did my neighbors as I walked around in skivvies in the winter, and posed with Yeti's downtown beaches for polar bear swims. 

You've got a point, WH can be considered a cultivation system, yet I was thinking of longer term, more steps.. a bit more holistic.  WH is great, but its a ten week course that you keep at.  Lately I've been sloughing of, but winter is coming and it'll be time to make friends with the cold again. 

 

Matter of fact I saw a sweet deal on a fairly deep kiddie pool that'd be great for winter dips.  Just add water and salt to keep it from freezing. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by thelerner

[liminal_luke]

I like spontaneous movement and think something like shaking (or "jiggling" as it`s called in Zapchen circles) can be a complete system all on it`s own.  You certainly can`t get any simpler.  Long-term Bums will remember the Kunlun craze that spread through the board like wildfire.  People were getting all sorts of results, both good and bad, from simply allowing their bodies to move without conscious direction.  

 

To me, such a system implies a profound faith in the natural wisdom of the body that feels very Daoist.  We allow our body to move as it will, trusting an innate and deeply personal somatic intelligence to guide our journey so that it brings health, openness, and, ultimately, the awakening of our deepest spiritual potential.

[Fa Xin]

On 8/18/2018 at 7:02 PM, zerostao said:

The continual cultivation of Virtue is all you need. Do that and everything else falls into place.

The "signs" are a by product of cultivating virtue or channeled and are never achieved by having "powers" as a goal.

If one wanted to demonstrate extraordinary abilities they aint never gonna get them.

There are a few that might be able to demonstrate extraordinary abilities, however, without cultivating Virtue, those will diminish and vanish. By cultivating Virtue, Spiritual connections are made and this allows a definite qigong foundation.

edit> I think I just repeated Luke's opening paragraph. Ah well

 

Curious as to how you define virtue in this case? Thanks 

[Cheshire Cat]

7 hours ago, thelerner said:

(...) I was thinking of longer term, more steps.. a bit more holistic.  (...) 

 

Sometimes, I feel like Mopai has shaped our expectations about spiritual practices in a very profound manner. 

[Vajra Fist]

Compassion is the most simplest, most direct path. It yields the greatest qualify of life and happiness, generates mountains of merit and leads you to rebirth in a pure land at death.

 

Therefore all you need is the mantra for generating compassion, the heart mantra of Avalokitesvara/Chenrezig/Kuan Yin.

 

Om Mani Padme Hum. 

 

Here is a nun who made this mantra her sole focus for 45 years.

 

 

The Buddha said: “I can count the number of dust motes, but I can not reckon the merit and virtue that results from one single recitation of the Six Word Great Bright Mantra.”

 

 

[Goddodin]

John main’s Christian meditation; mentally recite Mariana that for 20 mins twice a day.

 

or, ashtanga yoga in style of pattabhi jois. 

 

Both simple, clear and effective. 

[Goddodin]

Maranatha, god dam motherfucking autocorrect 

[Everything]

Yeah meditation is easy, simple, and always applicable. What it does, is to simply get out of your own way, allowing your mind to become silent, by focusing on the breath for example, and thus, your nature naturally falls back into balance, and harmony.

You feel good, in that, and when you do feel good, now you no longer become tolerant to that which feels bad, you react more violently to it, and so in a sense, the easy way is to just retreat forever. However, if you take those high vibrations and allow them to flow through you, and allow yourself to understand that when you feel good, it is time to allow yourself to let your thoughts flow, for the very thoughts that you allow to flow in that moment are in harmony with and in alignment with your eternal nature and source of all creation.

 

[liminal_luke]

On 9/10/2018 at 1:02 PM, Everything said:

Yeah meditation is easy, simple, and always applicable. What it does, is to simply get out of your own way, allowing your mind to become silent, by focusing on the breath for example, and thus, your nature naturally falls back into balance, and harmony.

 

 

Hi Everything,

 

Hope you don`t mind if I make a really nit-picky little point.

 

My mom tells me meditation is not for her.  She tried it and, when her mind didn`t go silent, she decided to knit instead.  Her nuno felted scarves are beautiful.  Still, I think she may have given up on meditation prematurely.  The idea that a person isn`t doing it right if they continue to experience thoughts is an obstacle for many.  Most people who put time in on the cushion continue to think.  I think it`s not helpful to tell people just starting a meditation practice that their mind will become silent because that`s unlikely.

Edited September 15, 2018 by liminal_luke

[Integrated]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 I think it`s not helpful to tell people just starting a meditation practice that their mind will become silent because that`s unlikely.

 

I meditate every day, but I meditate on a topic.

If I lose track on the topic, I have to keep meditating on it the next day.

I will have to keep meditating on it until the topic resolves itself in my mind.

I get a new topic when I grasp it fully and can keep focus until my stopwatch signal the end of the meditation.

Clearing my mind of thoughts strike me as a futile excercise at this point in my journey.

I have way too much content to deal with, better to deal with the content than to just clear the slate,

cause clearing the slate consciously does not fix the unconscious baggage.

 

Also I find a lot of people running for the light, like they think that if they just get closer to the light the shadow will resolve.

Unforunately when you place yourself in front of a light, a shadow naturally arises.

The only proper way to deal with a shadow is to accept that it is a natural consequence of the light.

Then try to learn to deal with it, after all, there is shade from the light in the shadows.

 

Shadow-work is hard, but totally worth it, when you integrate the "lower levels",

nothing can really phase you all that much.

Cause you have been down there under controlled circumstances several times.

It is like exploring subterrainian caves, if the lights go out you don't panic like everyone else,

cause you know your way around in the dark.

Sure there is a lot to be found on the surface and up high in the clouds,

but you often do not get to chose your starting location, nor what events gets thrown your way.

By being a good grappler in martial arts, you don't have to worry about being pulled to the ground.

You can then focus on standup fighting knowing that you can handle yourself if and when the

fight gets a little dirty on the ground, you can even escalate it in that direction if it serves your purpose.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Integrated

[liminal_luke]

@Integrated

 

Great post.  If we want to be, umm, integrated, shadow work is essential.  There`s a tendency, I think, in spiritual circles to focus on going "up" in an unbalanced way.  It makes perfect sense, of course.  For most of us, there`s less pain as we go up and nobody wants to feel pain.  But in this flight upward -- towards the light, and away from the darkness -- much of value is skipped over and remains unconscious or at least undigested.  Rather than reaching for the heavens prematurely, we`d do well to get in touch with the wisdom in our bellies and lower centers.  Perhaps your form of contemplative meditation serves this purpose for you.

[Integrated]

@liminal_luke

 

Thanks, hehe, yeah I call myself that as an affirmation, as I know I have a shit-ton of stuff left to integrate.

So I need to find some way of prioritizing what to deal with first.

The more base and dirty something is, the better.

 

After a bit of reflection I actually started with death.

(Hard to get lower than that)

In this day and age, figuring out why you actually want to live, is probably key.

Cause when you meet nihilistic people who have great arguments for there being no point to anything,

you better have figured out for yourself why there is still a point for you.

Not that you need to tell them why you believe there is a point.

You just dismiss them as irrelevant and move on, safe in your own reason to live.

I could go on, but you see the point I hope. (Phun intended)

 

As for people overreaching for the light.

I've noticed in my own practice as I slowly build from bottom, how the cost of integrating higher stuff rises.

It didn't take me too long to get through each of my "death-topics" as I was hardly suicidal.

A couple of days at most for each, now however I'm starting to average a week on each topic.

Cause the cost of integrating the higher levels is much more pricey.

And I assure you, I'm still dealing with stuff that is pretty base, and "higher creatures of light" constantly try to save me.

But since I know I will get up there eventually and probably at a much stabler manifestation than they had,

I'm comfortable being told I have run astray and have lost the light.

 

When I get to that level, each topic may well take me months, cause if nothing else when one gets higher,

the problems one encounter starts to get more real.

Sure I'm not suicidal, but I have many other vices that I'm now slowly having to face in a very uncomfortable way.

Hence I often dissociate and think of something else in my meditations, defence mechanisms are a great way to know

that one hasn't managed to own something. Denial, projection, etc etc are all great indicators that maybe one needs

some more time to deal with a subject.

[Integrated]

Responding to the main topic at hand, I'd say that any system will have it's basics.

When you focus on the basics and eliminate the advanced stuff.

You are usually left with simple A + B + C steps.

The way I look at it, simple steps are mostly something that happen in your own head.

You limit and label stuff in such a way that they to your level of insight take on a simplicity.

That only happens when what is advanced to you disappear.

You can only get rid of the advanced stuff, when you get real with yourself and accept where you are actually at.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Awesome thread.

 

15 minutes ago, Integrated said:

[…]

When you focus on the basics and eliminate the advanced stuff.

You are usually left with simple A + B + C steps.

The way I look at it, simple steps are mostly something that happen in your own head.

You limit and label stuff in such a way that they to your level of insight take on a simplicity.

That only happens when what is advanced to you disappear.

You can only get rid of the advanced stuff, when you get real with yourself and accept where you are actually at.

 

This, so much.

Advanced level practice is the kind you get to by doing what dear sir above wrote. Studying the basics can be fun and a whole universe of discovery. Later on when someone says ”this the advanced practice of doing this”all that basica training will leave the path open for nailing such methods down easily.

 

Any system will do and for me, imo, is to just stick to one teaching. Do that for long enough, refining the basics and building a house from the ground up and you’ll soon see what the system can offer and for you. 

[KuroShiro]

5 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

My mom tells me meditation is not for her.  She tried it and, when her mind didn`t go silent, she decided to knit instead.  Her nuno felted scarves are beautiful.  Still, I think she may have given up on meditation prematurely.  The idea that a person isn`t doing it right if they continue to experience thoughts is an obstacle for many.  Most people who put time in on the cushion continue to think.  I think it`s not helpful to tell people just starting a meditation practice that their mind will become silent because that`s unlikely.

 

Knitting is a form of meditation.

Quick google: https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/25/the-health-benefits-of-knitting/

 

In case you haven't yet try to introduce her to standing with open eyes meditation - Zhan Zhuang. Standing is easier than sitting. Check out The Way of Energy or The Way of Healing. Starting with 3-5 min daily, simple pose - hands on LDT, preferably looking out through a window. Master Lam Kam Chuen says it's ok to watch TV in the beginning. Her mind will become more silent, guaranteed.

[thelerner]

My dad would never be into anything like meditation yet he'd swim a mile at a very slow pace. I'm sure that was a meditative practice. The long silent repetition. 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Yup, many folks develop their own things.

Friend of mine is good at taking his me-time and against stress or hard to deal with anger or frustration he always recommend his ”two-step proprietary practice which is free for all to use”. It’s part of his semiofficial ”Church of Johan” project. There is no god but dancing and having a blast is sacramental. Dress up, preferrably in white and green, and go bananas with your friends. His sermons always contain Northern Soul, classic Doowop, Motown bangers, Rocksteady mashers and ballads etc...

 

1. Dance. Put on your favourite music, especially a genre that either contraddicts or complements your state of mind and start to dance. No shame, no awkwardness, all dances are good. Go with it.

1. Lie down and close your eyes, immagine you are looking down on yourself from above and then zoom out slowly, first the house from above, then the block, then the area, then the city, country etc until you can see earth, moon spinning around it and consider the vastness of proportion and the apparent peacefulness of empty space. Then return.

 

both are 1 because you can do them both in any sequence you like or just one and neither have priority over the other.

 

Dance or litterally space out...

[silent thunder]

11 hours ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

Yup, many folks develop their own things.

Friend of mine is good at taking his me-time and against stress or hard to deal with anger or frustration he always recommend his ”two-step proprietary practice which is free for all to use”. It’s part of his semiofficial ”Church of Johan” project. There is no god but dancing and having a blast is sacramental. Dress up, preferrably in white and green, and go bananas with your friends. His sermons always contain Northern Soul, classic Doowop, Motown bangers, Rocksteady mashers and ballads etc...

 

1. Dance. Put on your favourite music, especially a genre that either contraddicts or complements your state of mind and start to dance. No shame, no awkwardness, all dances are good. Go with it.

1. Lie down and close your eyes, immagine you are looking down on yourself from above and then zoom out slowly, first the house from above, then the block, then the area, then the city, country etc until you can see earth, moon spinning around it and consider the vastness of proportion and the apparent peacefulness of empty space. Then return.

 

both are 1 because you can do them both in any sequence you like or just one and neither have priority over the other.

 

Dance or litterally space out...

This is pure awesome...

 

I was just sharing this very notion with a coworker on Friday.  He's a recent Catholic convert and we were discussing notions of god.  My take is that:  If god exists anywhere, surely it is in my ecstasy, in my joyful abandon when I'm so swept into the beingness of love that I forget to hold anything back, or add layers of conditions upon it and I become just the pure dancing love of life... and my complete dissolution into the beingness of joy, wherever I am, right now, if there is a god, surely she is here with me in this.