Is non-duality actually a fundamental truth, or just another philosophy?

[Limahong]

15 minutes ago, rideforever said:

It's a good thing for existence that a band of scruffy monkeys is going to fix it when existence makes the error of giving them their own lives.

Scruffy man monkeys always "fixing" something with their "ideas" and sit there gawking whilst it crumbles into the sea, again.

 

Please elaborate.

[rideforever]

8 minutes ago, Limahong said:

Please elaborate.

 

Everything that is here is meant to be here, more or less.

[Limahong]

4 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Everything that is here is meant to be here, more or less.

 

 

 

[Nungali]

18 hours ago, Bindi said:

Is non-duality actually a fundamental truth, or just another philosophy? Is there some overwhelming proof beyond intellectual assertion? Is it only a Vedantic philosophy, or is it also asserted in Buddhism, Daoism, New ageism? Is it practical to even contemplate when we are physical beings with physical limits? 

 

It is a truth on its 'own plane' .  Its  an  'ideal'   concept .  On a 'more dense' plane   there is duality ... then triplicity, and so on .... all the way through to the manifestation of 'ten thousand things' .  The Dao tells us this as well as Kabbalah and other systems .

 

It has a 'reality' , perhaps only 'ideal' reality . 

 

Is it practical to contemplate ?   Well, it can never be understood with the conscious or rational mind .. thats why we have so many systems that us various symbols and analogies to try to explain it .

 

 

If you can stand Crowley

 

"  Serious philosophy has always begun by discarding all these puerilities.  It has of necessity been divided into these schools: the Nihilist, the Monist, and the Dualist  "

 

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/crowley/mwt/mwt_05.htm

 

If you can stand Crowley

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

http://www.davidloy.org/

I read this book back in 2000 or 2001.

I would say the problem with a Westernized nondualism is to see nondualism as a "static" or spatial "state."

So I kept studying this issue and realized that Daoism is based on what Ramana Maharshi called the "three in one unity" - from the three gunas. That's the oldest philosophy of INdia - the "three gunas."

 

Well well  .....     

 

My fav theory I have been pushing here for a few years !   And it is   '  ever present everywhere '   ... not just the gunas

 

 

 

One generates three ... yet the three make a 'new one' . . .  of a 'different order' .

 

 

 

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, Bindi said:

 

I'm all for nurturing the divine spirit child in us, but I was informed by dwai that this was still duality because the spirit or soul has an identity separate from the One still. As far as I have understood an immortal being exists in duality. 

 

  classic example here  ^  

 

 

'spirit or soul'   - not sorta the same thing, but really two distinct things . We used to understand a triplicity here as well ; body spirit and soul. As Christianity developed away from magical or Platonic principles, things became muddled and less understood -  spirit and soul were merged into one vague ghost like being that could depart the body and travel, hold some type of  'spiritual essence', ascend and be immortal .. basically a mish mash of stuff selected from here and there .  Eventually to become one side of 'dualistic consciousness', that is   spirit/soul'  as  'ideal'   and   body 'material reality' as real .  Later, brain went to real and 'mind' to ideal.

 

There are separate but linked , we could show it simply as ;

 

......   ' The one'

 

spirit   .......       soul

 

.......   the body   (or 'whole organism'

[dawei]

11 hours ago, Marblehead said:

I hold that non-duality is a state of mind.

 

All things are not really One even though they emerge from the same source (the Mystery).

 

But when we live with our environment instead of just in our environment we become a bit closer to non-duality.

 

 In dreams, I think, we can experience non-duality but when we wake up consciousness returns to duality.

 

But then, I have experienced non-duality while awake even though it didn't last very long so I cannot negate the possibility of some people being able to spend more time in non-duality than I have.

 

 

I would say it is just a state.

 

If we think too much about it, it creates a philosophy. When we are ready to let it go, it becomes more like a state of mind.  When we completely let go of the mind, it is more of a state.

 

But as all of it is mind related, it is still local mind stuff.

 

Until there is no separation of time-space and it folds into One but knowing this is still local mind.   So it is ultimately beyond mind.

[LAOLONG]

Non ternary

Ask the pop 😈

[LAOLONG]

Non duality is

Ternary

Touch wood three times

And the ....... is GoNE

 

[voidisyinyang]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjLxuG2uPXcAhXk5YMKHZvBDf44ChAWMAJ6BAgBEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Funiversalflowuniversity.com%2FBooks%2FSpiritual%20Philosophy%2FMeditation%2FBill%20Bodri%20-%20Measuring%20Meditation.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3UYhQEosn79iF9oQmZfenn

 

This pdf link is also a great overview of nonduality

[LAOLONG]

KNOCK

KNOCK

KNOCK

 

 

[rideforever]

4 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

This pdf link is also a great overview of nonduality

 

You seem to be desperately attracted to vast tomes that are wordy mental endless.   I cannot imagine an approach that has less chance of success.

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

9 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

You seem to be desperately attracted to vast tomes that are wordy mental endless.   I cannot imagine an approach that has less chance of success.

 

 

 

Quote

Furthermore there is no real entity within suffering anyway because there is no independent individual within the five aggregates. There is only the interdependence of the five aggregates being viewed with awareness, and the falsity of attachment to this network causes all sorts of problems and affliction, but which never produces a real being.

 

[Limahong]

4 hours ago, ONE said:

Touch wood three times

 

4 hours ago, ONE said:

KNOCK

KNOCK

KNOCK

 

 

[rideforever]

8 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

Furthermore there is no real entity within suffering anyway because there is no independent individual

 

There are only 2 problems with this.

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

Quote

The realm of illusions continues to exist because the mind clings to the idea of avoiding them.

 

[Limahong]

16 minutes ago, rideforever said:

tomes that are wordy mental endless

 

But tombs are almost wordless in the end.

 

 

[rideforever]

There is no "mind".

There is "my subconscious mind".

That is why it is in "my head" in "my body".

Gosh, it's really not easy for a monkey to wake up, so terrified he is.

 

This idea that you don't exist means what ?
That if you jump off a bridge you will still exist ?
Just try it.
You know what's going to happen, even if you don't understand.
That is why Buddha taught because someone is there.
Obviously otherwise why bother.

Okay even if you don't understand, consider this :
On this planet with such a derange nutball species, it's not good to cling to ideologies, which ideology is reliable on this planet< especially ideologies so negative and self-hating as "I don't exist".

And don't be too obsessed about "the ego".   Every time you go to Wallmart you use your mind plenty and it seems okay doesn't it ?

And if you are intelligent you will consider that Ramana Maharshi and J Krishnamurti taught for decades, and at the end said that nobody understood them.
Do you see what that means ?
It means they did not understand their own realisation well enough to instruct others.

So it's good not to be too confident in idealogies, and just work with a practical and hopeful spirit.

 

 

[Limahong]

9 hours ago, Nungali said:

 ... a mish mash of stuff selected from here and there . 

 

 

 

[Limahong]

26 minutes ago, rideforever said:

So it's good not to be too confident in idealogies, and just work with a practical...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Limahong

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

 

There are only 2 problems with this.

 

 

1. Some one might punch him in the nose and then ask "Okay then .... who is hurting ?

 

and 2 .

 

Spoiler

 Some one might punch him in the nose and then ask "Okay then .... who is hurting ?

 

Now, you might think they are actually  the same reasons and they are, I just thought it was worth listing it twice .

 

 

[Bindi]

This is a fundamental aspect of non-duality - 

 

The experience of any state or heavenly world that comes to us will eventually go away again.

 

That which comes and goes is not the Self. - Ramana

I wonder if non-duality isn't sometimes being mistaken for a non-dual experience. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Bindi

[Limahong]

2 minutes ago, Nungali said:

1. Some one might punch him in the nose and then ask "Okay then .... who is hurting ?

and 2...

 

2. Some one might punch him in the nose and then ask "Okay then .... who is hurting ?

Now, you might think they are actually  the same reasons and they are, I just thought it was worth listing it twice .

 

3. Punch him one more time and then ask one more time - "OK now... really hurting?"

 

4. Answer - yes.

 

Stop.

 

[Limahong]

18 minutes ago, Bindi said:

I wonder if non-duality isn't sometimes being mistaken for a non-dual experience.

 

 

 

 

 

[wandelaar]

On 17-8-2018 at 4:34 AM, Bindi said:

Is non-duality actually a fundamental truth, or just another philosophy? Is there some overwhelming proof beyond intellectual assertion? Is it only a Vedantic philosophy, or is it also asserted in Buddhism, Daoism, New ageism? Is it practical to even contemplate when we are physical beings with physical limits? 

 

It is exactly the fact that we are "physical beings with physical limits", that makes non-duality the most likely philosophy of choice. In physics we have the Doctrine of Uniformity:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformitarianism

 

This doctrine (or rather supposition) corresponds to Taoism's claim that Tao is the eternal and constant foundation of everything. For as long as there is no proof that the world is fractured in regions with their own special Tao's, then the most simple supposition is that there is just one (foundational) Tao. In science one would call that way of viewing things using Occam's razor:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

 

So contrary to the common claim that non-duality is beyond the reach of rational thought and/or science, I would say non-duality actually is at the heart of both. The division we commonly make between ourselves and the outside world is just the way in which natural evolution made sure we would know what to protect for our own survival. And that's also the reason why in daily life we will need to keep track of the difference between ourselves and the outside world for as long as we care for our survival, even though we know that fundamentally there is no difference between ourselves and the outside world.

 

No need to go beyond rational thought or science to understand non-duality.

Edited August 18, 2018 by wandelaar