Is non-duality actually a fundamental truth, or just another philosophy?

[Apech]

8 minutes ago, Bindi said:

 

I followed a different method to your dual approach, which goes quite a long way towards explaining my fundamentally different understanding. Where you use non-identification, I used the opposite, absolute emotional identification to process previously unfelt material, and where you probe I simply followed what dreams presented to be probed, in the assumption that what they chose to focus on at any particular time was intrinsically most appropriate. 

 

I wonder if non-identification has become the preferred method across diverse philosophies, a method I was not exposed to in my formative years, leaving me free to develop my own approach which, incidentally, I have found has worked well for me. 

 

Regarding karma, yes I must be referring to the 'results of karma', but calling it karma. 

 

 

 

 

 

I think dreams are a good way to follow this material - since dreams operate on a deeper level than say conscious memory and can provide links between subject matter which the conscious mind would probably filter out.  So I don't think we are in disagreement about that.

 

If by absolute emotional identification you mean fully engaging with the process and keeping it in the here and now - rather than looking it from afar as through a metaphorical microscope - then I would again agree that this is essential to 'sorting out' this stuff.  But I think that it is a simple fact that what you are is not the same as the sum of ancestral or historical records - and this is important for gaining freedom or liberation from imposed patterning.  Otherwise we would be mere puppets of stored emotional content, pushed around by the  force of those emotions and without any free will.  So I think it is important to convince oneself that the observer is not the observed.

 

 

[Michael Sternbach]

14 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Ah, but it too is changing.  Sand grains moving from place to place, pebbles being rolled a little further down stream.  Rivers have even been known to totally change course, leaving the old river bed and creating a new one.

 

 

I was expecting this kind of answer. But frankly, I consider this splitting hairs. Err, splitting rivers...

 

Seriously, I think it's obvious that the river is the result of the interplay of various factors, some more fundamental and permanent, others more accidental and changeable. But that's not the same as denying that the river exists in the first place (as a Buddhist might).

 

I would even go as far as saying that there is a transcendent idea underlying the river.

 

As there is also a transcendent idea underlying Marblebed. Err, Marblehead.

 

 

[doc benway]

30 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

I was expecting this kind of answer. But frankly, I consider this splitting hairs. Err, splitting rivers...

 

Seriously, I think it's obvious that the river is the result of the interplay of various factors, some more fundamental and permanent, others more accidental and changeable. But that's not the same as denying that the river exists in the first place (as a Buddhist might).

 

I would even go as far as saying that there is a transcendent idea underlying the river.

 

As there is also a transcendent idea underlying Marblebed. Err, Marblehead.

 

 

 

A Buddhist would not deny that the river exists.

Someone misinterpreting Buddhism might.

It's interesting how pervasive this misunderstanding is about Buddhism.

[Michael Sternbach]

26 minutes ago, steve said:

 

A Buddhist would not deny that the river exists.

Someone misinterpreting Buddhism might.

It's interesting how pervasive this misunderstanding is about Buddhism.

 

Please note that I said a Buddhist might deny the existence of the river, not stating this as a general truth. The river being a metaphor for the self, obviously.

 

I said what I said based on  discussions I had with various Buddhists (especially during my years of Zen practice). Some of which were indeed of the opinion that the self is a mere illusion (mostly because it may not be permanent). If there is a misunderstanding, it's not so much about Buddhism, but in Buddhism.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Michael Sternbach

[voidisyinyang]

Here is a Thai quantum engineer - who also understands the nondualism secret as noncommutative phase:

 

 

the superluminal Bright Soliton light relies on the spin or precessional magnetic moment as reverse charge phase Yuan Qi phonon energy.

 

 

Blue shifted light as spacetime reversal using metamaterials (negative refractive index) - same "Pitch" but two different frequency/wavelengths at the same time as noncommutative phase.

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[Limahong]

11 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

Karma wash

 

Hi Wu Ming Jen,

 

A karmic friend has just sent me these - have you tried such karma wash?

 

 

  

 

- Anand

[voidisyinyang]

 

What is called the Dirac Dance (720 degree 1/2 quanta spin of electron) is actually relativistic quantum physics as nonwestern shamanic Nondualism.

 

This representation only works for the (more fundamental) 1/2-integral representations (i.e. spinors/turns/quaternions) but also lets one build the vector and tensor representations. The converse does not hold....this property of "noncommutivity" in itself might be valuable in some way.

 

My claim, and original idea, has been that this is circumnavigating a T'ai Chi (Yin/Yang) symbol! More recently (Oshins, 1993b) I have suggested that this proximate technique can be used to realize Wing Chun kung-fu's "bong sau/tan sau" movement out of the Kauffman/Oshins "quaternionic arm" discussed and referenced below in end note 5.

 

I believe that this may be a way to get mind to code the relative relationship of part of oneself with respect to the rest of oneself (self-referential motion) and can explain the concepts of being "centered"/"one"/"integrated"/"extended"/"whole" etc. which one strives for in meditation.

 
Oshins, E. (1993). A Test for Classical Psychospinors. (pdf) In Abdullah, F. (Ed.) Conservation and Invariance. Cambridge, UK: Alternative Natural Philosophy Association, London England. Edited August 19, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[voidisyinyang]

 

Aharonov-Bohm Effect PROVED the 5th dimension - zero force - noncommutative phase - creates current energy.

the phase of the 'hidden momentum' in Aharonov-Bohm (AB) solenoid effect is equal in magnitude to the phase of the electron but with opposite sign...."An electrically charged particle is affected by an electromagnetic potential (V, A), despite being confined to a region in which both the magnetic field B and electric field E are zero. If the electric charge through gauge invariance creates an electromagnetic field, wouldn't this isotopic spin also generate a field? And that is the motivation.." Nobel Laureate physicist CN Yang

 

 

[Limahong]

4 hours ago, steve said:

A Buddhist would not deny that the river exists.

Someone misinterpreting Buddhism might.

 

Hi steve,

 

Misinterpreted rivers can become...

 

 

A good karmic friend once invited me to join him on a trip down a river of no return - very peaceful and enlightening.

 

And because of his good karma we returned home ~ safely.

 

Om Mani Padme Hum.

 

- Anand

Edited August 19, 2018 by Limahong

[Marblehead]

7 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

I was expecting this kind of answer. But frankly, I consider this splitting hairs. Err, splitting rivers...

 

Seriously, I think it's obvious that the river is the result of the interplay of various factors, some more fundamental and permanent, others more accidental and changeable. But that's not the same as denying that the river exists in the first place (as a Buddhist might).

 

I would even go as far as saying that there is a transcendent idea underlying the river.

 

As there is also a transcendent idea underlying Marblebed. Err, Marblehead.

 

 

Yeah, there's a reason I am Marblehead and there's a reason a river flows.  I know about rivers, not sure about Marblehead.

 

Well, the Buddhists in India right now are experiencing rising rivers from the large amounts of rain they have been getting.  To deny the river is rising is to die.

 

[Bindi]

11 hours ago, Apech said:

 

I think dreams are a good way to follow this material - since dreams operate on a deeper level than say conscious memory and can provide links between subject matter which the conscious mind would probably filter out.  So I don't think we are in disagreement about that.

 

If by absolute emotional identification you mean fully engaging with the process and keeping it in the here and now - rather than looking it from afar as through a metaphorical microscope - then I would again agree that this is essential to 'sorting out' this stuff. 

 

 

Actually I mean just feeling the feeling. 

 

Quote

But I think that it is a simple fact that what you are is not the same as the sum of ancestral or historical records - and this is important for gaining freedom or liberation from imposed patterning.  Otherwise we would be mere puppets of stored emotional content, pushed around by the  force of those emotions and without any free will.  So I think it is important to convince oneself that the observer is not the observed.

 

 

 

Working directly with emotions I have come to identify them for myself as the basis of the yin half of duality, and the linear intellect as the yang half of duality. To resolve their respective stored patterns I was immersed in that level of duality, but for me it was a (long) temporary immersion which did lead to the discovery of the observer once the yin/yang duality level was cleared and integrated with each other. Right now I would identify myself as the observer, but there is still a duality between 'earth' and 'heaven'. 'I' am the 'earth' observer, now watching to see how this new earth/heaven duality will play itself out. 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Bindi

[doc benway]

9 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

Please note that I said a Buddhist might deny the existence of the river, not stating this as a general truth. The river being a metaphor for the self, obviously.

 

I said what I said based on  discussions I had with various Buddhists (especially during my years of Zen practice). Some of which were indeed of the opinion that the self is a mere illusion (mostly because it may not be permanent). If there is a misunderstanding, it's not so much about Buddhism, but in Buddhism.

 

Not in Buddhism but in a misunderstanding of Buddhism.

The self is an illusion but that does not mean it does not exist.

Illusions exist (in a relative sense) or we would not be discussing them.

Buddhism does not posit whether or not things exist, the point is that they do not appear in the manner in which we assume.

Sure, a Buddhist might deny the existence of the river but that would be a misunderstanding of Buddhism.

That's the point I want to make.

 

 

[3bob]

saying the mental ego (or "self" if one will) is an illusion is problematic in a similar sense to if one said that forms of energy are an illusion,  why - because the mental ego is a formation (and or a working collection) of certain energies biased in certain ways depending on the person.    The True Self can see the mental ego for what it is and then to whatever degree change and use that  mental ego as servant to the True Self. Granted we do hear teachings about the dissolution of bindings of energy in form with just pure energy remaining yet if that pure energy is going to interact with manifestation there still needs to be some kind of aligned matrix or form for it to do so.  

 

 

[Marblehead]

I swear, you are not an illusion, 3bob.  I'm not sure about some of your thoughts though.

 

[doc benway]

16 hours ago, Bindi said:

Working directly with emotions I have come to identify them for myself as the basis of the yin half of duality, and the linear intellect as the yang half of duality. To resolve their respective stored patterns I was immersed in that level of duality, but for me it was a (long) temporary immersion which did lead to the discovery of the observer once the yin/yang duality level was cleared and integrated with each other. Right now I would identify myself as the observer, but there is still a duality between 'earth' and 'heaven'. 'I' am the 'earth' observer, now watching to see how this new earth/heaven duality will play itself out. 

 

Thanks for sharing this Bindi.

Regarding the earth/heaven duality, if you are earth what are you referring to as heaven?

 

 

[Bindi]

6 hours ago, steve said:

 

Thanks for sharing this Bindi.

Regarding the earth/heaven duality, if you are earth what are you referring to as heaven?

 

 

 

At the moment I am referring to 'heaven' as in my forehead area, and the observer as opposite at the back of my head. My dreams contain very exact layouts  

 

But I also wanted to clarify my previous post to say that though yin and yang have been reintegrated, the process that is kick-started by this has not completed itself. I am watching it closely though.   

[Bindi]

On 17/08/2018 at 10:39 PM, voidisyinyang said:

The Yang Shen, from what I can determine, is created from what Zhong Gong calls "The Golden Key" as again, Master Zhang Hongbao, calls it "superluminal yin matter."

 

 

Here is my understanding of this -  the Yang Shen is the Yang's spirit which is the 'higher' yin (being the black dot) contained within white Yang. It is accessed via the higher yang (being the white dot) contained within black yin. Funny, I'd always thought of Yang shen as male/Yang etc, but it turns out to be the ultimate 'spiritual yin matter' ('matter' cos it's still attached to the embodied person I imagine). 

 

 

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

3 hours ago, Bindi said:

 

Here is my understanding of this -  the Yang Shen is the Yang's spirit which is the 'higher' yin (being the black dot) contained within white Yang. It is accessed via the higher yang (being the white dot) contained within black yin. Funny, I'd always thought of Yang shen as male/Yang etc, but it turns out to be the ultimate 'spiritual yin matter' ('matter' cos it's still attached to the embodied person I imagine). 

 

 

 

 

 

to refer to the book Taoist Yoga alchemy and immortality - the left eye is "positive spirit" (yang shen) but the left eye is also Wood as the Liver, as the Moon, or yin qi. The right eye is "negative spirit" as in yin shen but is also metal as in lung as the sun, or yang qi.

 

So ONLY the eyes are positive while the rest of the body is negative. But to have "pointed concentration" means to rotate the eyes or to "cross" the eyes by staring at the tip of the nose - thereby turning the yin and yang shen around and also turning around the yin and yang qi.

So then once the yin qi or Mercury is "replenished"  - this is done through meditation because with the eyes open then the Heart (Sun) and Moon (lower tan t'ien) are disconnected as the external Sun and Moon (left and right eye) shen are not turned around - and so through meditation their is purification via the Fire-Shen as positive spirit or Heaven.

 

The Yuan Qi activates the Yuan Shen as the light of no light - but the Yuan Qi is not activated until the yin qi is replenished by extracting the yang qi. So you need purification to stop losing the yang qi and then you "cleanse" the yang qi via the kidneys and "purify" via the heart. So the yang qi has "substance" via the cerebrospinal fluid (lecithin). So it creates the ambrosia as the immortal seed that then builds up the yuan qi.

 

Then as the yuan qi builds up then the Golden Nectar develops as the Light of Vitality - the light from the yang qi building up even further by purification into yuan qi. So you first have to restore the yin qi and then you have to purify the yang qi to turn all the yin qi into yuan qi internally - along with the yang qi into yuan qi.

 

So then the Golden Immortal Body is both the Positive Spirit (Heaven) and the Positive Vitality (Earth) such that you have now successfully merged the Yang Qi of the yin shen with the Yin qi of the Yang Shen - and so the third eye then collects all the yuan qi of the body, vaporizes the body or "evaporates it" as Golden Light yang shen that "shines" through the pores of the body - and now you have your immortal golden body. But you just destroyed your physical body in order to make the immortal body. Also you destroyed your ego - since there is no longer any yin qi (which is left brain dominant consciousness for humans).

 

And so then the Yuan Qi "decides" When the Yang Shen will manifest - and only other people purified enough will be able to see the Yang Shen - since if a person does not have enough yin qi stored up and replenished - then they will not be able to see the yang shen, or other immortals that have yang qi combined with the shen.

 

So the process remains an eternal process of complementary opposites - and the Yuan Qi is the 5th dimension that is beyond spacetime - so it is "instantaneous" - meaning that light of the Yuan Shen does not experience time nor space. But the energy of light as the Yuan Qi is spacetime itself that is relativistic - and so it has eternal motion. So the T'ai Chi IS the Wuji. There is no "static" non-movement. There is always "doing" in the Non-movement, as the secret of the Yuan Shen.

[lifeforce]

Huang Po:

 

All Buddhas and all humans are nothing but this one mind. 
There is nothing apart from it. This mind is without beginning, 
without birth, without death. Neither green nor yellow, without 
form or appearance, it does not adhere to being or non-being... 
It is right here, just as it is — yet as soon as discursive thoughts 
are produced you fall into error. Like the boundless void, it is 
beyond measure or calculation. This one mind itself is Buddha 
and there is no distinction between Buddhas and humans. It is 
just that humans are attached to external forms and thus seek 
outside themselves. The more you seek after it, the more you 
lose sight of it. You are a Buddha seeking vainly for some 
"Buddha," mind trying to grasp onto mind. Try with all your 
might for aeons, but you will never attain it. 
Just put all discursive thoughts to rest and forget vain concerns, 
then Buddha is manifest right here. Mind just as it is, is Buddha. 
And Buddha just as it is, is mind. It is not lacking in ordinary 
people, nor is it fully present in Buddhas.

Edited August 21, 2018 by lifeforce

[lifeforce]

Xinxin Ming:

 

http://www.mendosa.com/way.html

[3bob]

for the quote I think Spirit would be a more universal term than mind, with mind having a lot more and or different meanings, although that is the way Buddhists use it per their school.

[lifeforce]

6 minutes ago, 3bob said:

for the quote I think Spirit would be a more universal term than mind, with mind having a lot more and or different meanings, although that is the way Buddhists use it per their school.

 

Can't argue with that. That way it can be understood better by non-Buddhists.

[Marblehead]

3 minutes ago, lifeforce said:

 

Can't argue with that. That way it can be understood better by non-Buddhists.

But some of us will never understand.

 

[3bob]

ok, btw. sometimes we hear the term super-conscious mind - which is not the plodding mind of reasoning although it is not against right reasoning... 

[3bob]

7 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

But some of us will never understand.

 

 

another spin could be, it goes far, it returns, yet it never left (to paraphrase)

Edited August 21, 2018 by 3bob