Is non-duality actually a fundamental truth, or just another philosophy?

[Marblehead]

Just now, Jeff said:

Stillness and tranquillity give a clear vision to the nature of all things.

But it is unlikely you will have stillness and tranquility if your body is in constant pain.  You will be suffering like most Buddhists do.

 

[Jeff]

55 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

Care to share any similarities and differences on the realizations?

 

I think the path (and realization of Jesus) fits very well with what is described in chapter 28 of the Tao Te Ching. Just a question of a specific block being carved, as compared to a general overview.

[Jeff]

22 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

But it is unlikely you will have stillness and tranquility if your body is in constant pain.  You will be suffering like most Buddhists do.

 

 

Very true that it is difficult when in pain, but Buddha was very clear on the point...

 

Free yourself from pleasure and pain. For in craving pleasure or in nursing pain
There is only sorrow.
Like nothing lest you lose it,
Lest it bring you grief and fear.
Go beyond likes and dislikes.

From passion and desire, Sensuousness and lust, Arise grief and fear.

Free yourself from attachment.

-Dhammapada

[Marblehead]

5 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Very true that it is difficult when in pain, but Buddha was very clear on the point...

Easier said than done.

 

[3bob]

an earlier- post:

"Take away all manifested differences then there are no problems with any of it, but that will never happen in the manifested worlds. (with manifested worlds including worlds of any subtle form beyond just earthly worlds. "

 

a post-post which I hope is clearer: 

Take away all attachment from manifested differences then there are no problems with any of it, but again that will never happen in the manifested worlds as long as there are particular attachments. (with manifested worlds also including worlds of any subtle form beyond  earthly worlds.   

 

there are points in Buddhism that I don't agree with but I gotta give credit where credit is due to Nagarjuna and others along the lines of the wisdom of non-attachment  

 

Edited 3 hours ago by 3bob   

Edited 3 hours ago by 3bob

[3bob]

absolute pain can also bring absolute resolution about it,  for example: "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do"

[Jeff]

5 minutes ago, 3bob said:

absolute pain can also bring absolute resolution about it,  for example: "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do"

 

Jesus asking the Father to forgive them is not about the pain that he was experiencing at the time.  It was about forgiveness (in the world) itself.  It goes to the "karmic" nature of what was happening.  Described like this in the gospel of Thomas.

 

44. Jesus said, "Whoever blasphemes against the Father will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes against the son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven, either on earth or in heaven."

[3bob]

.

Edited August 22, 2018 by 3bob

[dawei]

7 hours ago, Apech said:

 

I think this may be a problem!  But I'll let the Daoists on here answer you.  But just to say that Internal Alchemy is usually understood to be both Xing and Ming, so you may be missing 50%.

 

I think the male/female, yin/yang, emptiness/lumonisty may be for another thread.  Big subject.

 

To be clear, I think Xing and Ming is modern Alchemy... so just a shift or phase of daoist alchemy... but agree on big subject. Have enjoyed your posts in this thread and many others  

 

[Cheshire Cat]

3 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Keep in mind that nearly all of the New Testament was dictated by Paul to the Greek scribes who wrote down what we now have as the New Testament.

 

Scribes were expensives: he wrote much of the new testament by himself :-D

Edited August 22, 2018 by Cheshire Cat

[dawei]

7 hours ago, Bindi said:

 

First there is youwei, then there is wuwei. I find these concepts easier to understand than Xing and Ming. I didn't mention wuwei after youwei cos wuwei already gets way too much press around here. 

 

I see you answered Apech's question but why is youwei FIRST and THEN wuwei.    Can you share that thought ?

 

Added... why the linear idea

[Apech]

33 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

To be clear, I think Xing and Ming is modern Alchemy... so just a shift or phase of daoist alchemy... but agree on big subject. Have enjoyed your posts in this thread and many others  

 

 

 

Not that modern ...

 

The learning of the divine immortals consists in nothing but cultivating and
reining xing and ming.? Wang Jie 王 玠 (z. Daoyuan 道 淵 , ca. 1380), Cuigong
ruyao jing zhujie 崔公入藥鏡註解 (Commentary on the Mirror for Compounding
the Medicine, DZ 135),

[rideforever]

3 hours ago, Marblehead said:

But it is unlikely you will have stillness and tranquility if your body is in constant pain.  You will be suffering like most Buddhists do.

 

That's all rubbish. 

You are just work shy.
When in gravest dark pain is the right time to meditate.

You should remember that next time you have a screaming migraine.
In fact people are in pain 24 hours a day, but they don't understand.

 

[rideforever]

44 minutes ago, Cheshire Cat said:

Scribes were expensives: he wrote much of the new testament by himself :-D

 

It has taken me quite a while to understand Christianity.
Paul was a fanatic, he was a fanatic when he hated Christianity and a fanatic when he became Christian.
Not really a great person to take lessons from.
There are the words of Jesus of Nazareth.
Do you need anything else ?

[Cheshire Cat]

38 minutes ago, rideforever said:

(...) 

There are the words of Jesus of Nazareth.
Do you need anything else ?

 

I don't need Jesus and he didn't care about me. 

[Marblehead]

4 hours ago, 3bob said:

Take away all attachment from manifested differences then there are no problems with any of it, 

Yes that is a little more acceptable but still not realistic.  "All" attachments is asking a little too much, I think.

 

[Marblehead]

4 hours ago, 3bob said:

absolute pain can also bring absolute resolution about it,  for example: "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do"

But as General Norman Schwarzkopf once said, "It's my job to kill the enemy, it's up to God to forgive them."

 

[Marblehead]

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

 

That's all rubbish. 

You are just work shy.
When in gravest dark pain is the right time to meditate.

You should remember that next time you have a screaming migraine.
In fact people are in pain 24 hours a day, but they don't understand.

 

Oh!, all seeing one, I feel you have fucked up again.

 

You know nothing about me and the pains I experienced and have experienced.

 

Twenty years in the Army is not like a trip to Disneyland.

 

You are still likely in Disneyland.

 

So when you get a little more knowledge under your belt regarding my personal life you can come back to this and make personal comments about me.

 

And if you try to tell me that you meditate at your best when you are in the greatest pain I will call you a bullshitter.

 

So if you are in for the game, come on over to my house and arrange to break one of your legs and I will promise you I will call an ambulance as soon as you have finished you meditation.

[dawei]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

Not that modern ...

 

The learning of the divine immortals consists in nothing but cultivating and
reining xing and ming.? Wang Jie 王 玠 (z. Daoyuan 道 淵 , ca. 1380), Cuigong
ruyao jing zhujie 崔公入藥鏡註解 (Commentary on the Mirror for Compounding
the Medicine, DZ 135),

 

I consider anything after 500 a.d. to be modern for chinese alchemy. IMO, they lost the ability to follow ancient alchemy and created new methods.  JMO. 

[Bindi]

4 hours ago, dawei said:

 

I see you answered Apech's question but why is youwei FIRST and THEN wuwei.    Can you share that thought ?

 

Added... why the linear idea

 

I think effort in the form of forbearance is needed to tolerate the clearing of the channels of the subtle body, and much mental effort is required to understand the process minutely, as well as the big picture that one is working towards. Clearing the subtle body and directing energy through long unused channels requires various methods - intention, breathing, physical forms, muscle clenching, as well as sometimes the patience to allow a process to occur naturally - each used at exactly the right time, in exactly the right way. 

 

Alchemy is strictly linear because each dantian has to be worked with using exactly the right method at each moment, and only when the 1st dantian is complete can you move to the second, and then the third. If the foundations aren't working properly, the next step simply can't happen, the whole system relies on each step being done exactly right at exactly the right time. 

 

Without all this exacting effort I think there is always an emptiness or a hunger that can never be sated, an itch that can never be scratched. To bring consciousness/energy/communion to True Yang and True Yin is to my understanding the only way to finally satisfy that restless hunger, and this is the first time that wuwei becomes possible.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Bindi

[Bindi]

55 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

I consider anything after 500 a.d. to be modern for chinese alchemy.

 

This sentence made me laugh  

 

55 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

IMO, they lost the ability to follow ancient alchemy and created new methods.  JMO. 

 

[dawei]

11 minutes ago, Bindi said:

Alchemy is strictly linear because each dantian has to be worked with using exactly the right method at each moment, and only when the 1st dantian is complete can you move to the second, and then the third. If the foundations aren't working properly, the next step simply can't happen, the whole system relies on each step being done exactly right at exactly the right time. 

 

Without all this exacting effort I think there is always an emptiness or a hunger that can never be sated, an itch that can never be scratched. To bring consciousness/energy/communion to True Yang and True Yin is to my understanding the only way to finally satisfy that restless hunger, and this is the first time that wuwei becomes possible.  

 

I would agree this is the strength and weakness of alchemy

[dawei]

11 minutes ago, Bindi said:

 

This sentence made me laugh  

 

 

 

can you show xing and ming around 1 ad or before ?   I'm all ears

 

[Bindi]

1 minute ago, dawei said:

 

I would agree this is the strength and weakness of alchemy

 

Would you care to elaborate on your comment? Please  

[silent thunder]

9 hours ago, Marblehead said:

But don't forget to let the child out to play now and again.

 

 

9 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

Playfulness is a wonderful power.

 

These really resonate.  This is one of the key points for me in Daoist philosophy.  Playfulness.  Returning to the state of a child.  To me it speaks of the deep healing wisdom in being childlike, open and curious about life and new situations, full of questions instead of answers, flexible in thinking and assumptions...  childlike, not childish.

 

Too often I find this Daoist notion of playfulness and returning to the state of a child is derided by the left brain bias of modern human culture and dismissed as useless chidishness, and is accused of being an excuse for running away from responsibilities and being dependent on the whim of life's flow.  This is a common, harmful conflation in my opinion.

 

It's extremely important beneficial to me, to cultivate a playful, childlike beingness.  I find it a method of high skill to keep my own presence bouyant and connected while putting others at ease and de-escalating energetic responses in the tensest of situations.