american chakra

[Cheshire Cat]

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

 

You are not talking about Gurdjieff.
Who did you hear that from ?

 

Notably, most of the stories are in his own books which sadly most of his modern followers failed to read. But most importantly, I don't care enough to debate about this matter: it will suffice to read " Meetings with Remarkable Men " and see the stories for what they are behind the veil of his narrative.

 

 

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

Gurdjieff never did anything at all, even small things, because "somebody told him so".  The whole point of his life was to never do that.   To always see for yourself, try things, check and verify at any point   His motto was "never do anything as others do".   That's what he did and taught every day of his life.

 

Gurdjieff was a refined scam- artist that literally carved his own legend out of a self-referential narrative and a multitude of stories, superstitions and myths from the eastern world which he held to be true.

Most of the stories were -of course- his own inventions: you may read for example the chapter on Tibet and Lamaism in the Belzeebub's tales.

 

When he talked about a particular aspect of his personality or his approach to life ("never do anything as others do", etc...), he did so to inspire his followers to think differently and it was functional to his own purposes: not to be critical of his works and teachings, for example.

 

 

[dawei]

~~~ ADMIN NOTICE ~~~

 

A few reports came in complaining of posts with multiple pictures acting more like spam.  These posts have been hidden.

[rideforever]

18 minutes ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

Notably, most of the stories are in his own books which sadly most of his modern followers failed to read. But most importantly, I don't care enough to debate about this matter: it will suffice to read " Meetings with Remarkable Men " and see the stories for what they are behind the veil of his narrative.

Gurdjieff was a refined scam- artist that literally carved his own legend out of a self-referential narrative and a multitude of stories, superstitions and myths from the eastern world which he held to be true.

Most of the stories were -of course- his own inventions: you may read for example the chapter on Tibet and Lamaism in the Belzeebub's tales.

When he talked about a particular aspect of his personality or his approach to life ("never do anything as others do", etc...), he did so to inspire his followers to think differently and it was functional to his own purposes: not to be critical of his works and teachings, for example.

 

I find your views quite strange.

 

He attracted a literary crowd, like Kathrine Mansfield and A.R.Orage.  And because of that many of his students published books all with their own journeys, but their descriptions of Gurdjieff are very clear and powerful.   Because there are so many student life books, I think your ideas are wrong.   I have about 6 here at the moment from different students.

 

One student arrived from the Trenches, he was in the war, and arrived in British Army uniform, exhausted.   Gurdjieff emitted a blue energy to help heal that student before sending him back to the war.   Another student visited him in his Paris flat late in his life, unexpectedly.   Gurdjieff was making dinner for a group of old people from the neighbourhood, these old people were just lonely people, not students or anything.   So the student asks him why ?   After all he is such a big teacher, why these nobodies ?  But Gurdjieff said that there was nobody else to look after them.   He was a Christian.

 

That book you mention "Meetings with Remarkable Men" is in my opinion a load of intellectual shit from Ouspensky who did 2 years with Gurdjieff before running off to England to sell it.   Ouspensky died an alcoholic after screwing over his students.

 

Gurdjieff also toasted each person over dinner describing what kind of idiot he was, because he realised the low level of men including himself.

 

He was a magnificent being.   But also a confrontational fighter.   Most people prefer to sit in front of yellow robed lamas who say all those things you know they are going to say, with a vacant expression.

 

 

[Michael Sternbach]

Talking about Gurjieff...

 

It's conceivable that what one thinks of as "blindly following advice", another one would look at as "trying and critically evaluating various things" (and I am paraphrasing here).

 

I am not familiar with all of Gurjieff's work, but I know that he inspired a lot of esoteric thinkers, some of whom I hold in high regard.

 

There will always be those taking pleasure in debunking any great teacher, essentially based on the fact that they were human too and accordingly had some weaknesses. As if that would automatically invalidate all the good stuff they were practicing and teaching!

 

BTW, for that matter, I think Ouspensky had his moments too.

 

What it boils down to for me is that it's important to let neither yay sayers nor nay sayers gull you, but to indeed always try and evaluate for yourself.

[Cheshire Cat]

38 minutes ago, rideforever said:

[...]

That book you mention "Meetings with Remarkable Men" is in my opinion a load of intellectual shit from Ouspensky who did 2 years with Gurdjieff before running off to England to sell it.   Ouspensky died an alcoholic after screwing over his students.

[...]

 

That book which I mentioned is one of the two books authored by Gurdjieff himself, the other being Belzebuub's tales. I would suggest to actually read the real Gurdjieff's stuff before trying to depict him based solely on the impressions that he left on other people.

 

I don't think it's relevant that his students wrote books which describe him as a saint and psychic master: the profound psychological impact that specific behaviours have on certain individuals is something that never fails to surprise me and I've met modern masters of the art that deploy similar strategies with similar results.

 

[rideforever]

6 minutes ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

That book which I mentioned is one of the two books authored by Gurdjieff himself, the other being Belzebuub's tales. I would suggest to actually read the real Gurdjieff's stuff before trying to depict him based solely on the impressions that he left on other people.

 

I don't think it's relevant that his students wrote books which describe him as a saint and psychic master: the profound psychological impact that specific behaviours have on certain individuals is something that never fails to surprise me and I've met modern masters of the art that deploy similar strategies with similar results.

 

If I have 6 books in my house coming from his students, do you really think I haven't read all his work ?   Of course I have !   And they are filled with details, most of them written in diary form, describing incident and incident with Gurdjieff mindblowing stuff.   Hundreds of incidents, hundreds of conversations.   

 

You have no specific examples.   I am not sure what you have against him, perhaps you are jaded, you sound it.

 

Ouspensky wrote In Search of the Miraculous, sorry your are right about that, I mixed them up.

 

So what is wrong with "Meetings with Remarkable Men" ? 

You think it is a little mystical and far fetched with exaggerating stories and so on ?

 

One of the things he felt was that mankind as he is cannot live an honest life and that honest people are the first ones that are killed if there is trouble in a community.   And that he spent his youth learning the art of disguise, of portraying different characters according to the needs of the moment.  And to use this skill in order to help the teaching.

 

Of course many teachers are hugging kissy kissy and tell you beautiful fairy tales about how plants live in harmony with nature and bambi plays with the tigers in the forest.

 

Typical thing for Gurdjieff was to induct his new students (mostly from white collar backgrounds) give them a spade and get them to dig for 2 weeks until they were half dead.   Anyone who left early couldn't be a student.

 

Today nobody turns anyone away.   Because few actually have anything to give.   When you have something to give, you learn the value of protecting it.

 

 

[Cheshire Cat]

25 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

[...]

There will always be those taking pleasure in debunking any great teacher, essentially based on the fact that they were human too and accordingly had some weaknesses. As if that would automatically invalidate all the good stuff they were practicing and teaching!

[...]

 

I would say that it's more of a relief than a pleasure since my starting point with Gudjieff was to acritically accept everything he wrote and taught, but allow me to take another step and quote a Master from the past that Mr. G. considered to be supreme in understanding and wisdom.

 

"By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. [...] Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

Jesus

Gurdjieff's fruits are of a rare kind: delicious, but without flavors. Colorfuls, but invisibles. Essentially non existents.

He might be an inspiration to esoteric thinkers as much as the manchineel is an inspiration for the apple tree.

[rideforever]

1 minute ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

 

I take your point some of his students are f**ed up.   But then look at Christanity.   And look at the zombie Buddhists.   It comes with the territory and no-one is immune.   Taosits too always doing the energy but not realising that waking up is not being powered up.

 

I just witnessed a conference meeting this morning with the Course In Miracles people, the teacher for today was in my opinion filled with darkness and feeding off the students.   Wow, quite a dangerous place this Earth.   Full of naive students.

 

I don't know why you say you "accepted everything he said" because you cannot read Beelzebub without a deep churning and confrontation with your own mind, your own being, and the story you are told of the world.

 

What is there to "accept" ?  He has no belief system except doing the work on oneself, arduously for the most part.   "Only exceptional efforts count".

What is it that you "accepted" ?  Strange comment isn't it.   

 

Well, I would like to hear more from you about this stuff.

 

I know there is a large school in California doing the 4th Way, run by a paedophile rapist according to some ex-students.

 

Well all I can say is that Gurdjieff put the material there, but who can read it ?

[rideforever]

Specifically the tremendous value of Gurdjieff was the development of the centre of personal intelligence which is virtually unknown, and the development of many powerful techniques.   As well as his traditional Eastern patriarchy that is rare today.    And his tireless approach to life.   There are also his beautiful dances, and his music.    And yes Beelzebubs Tales.

Altogether a very rare and valuable light on Earth.

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

What is there to "accept" ?

 

Hi rideforever,

 

As each of us is different, "accept" must come with "reject" in relation to the subject-object equation.

 

I am critical as such - I don't want to be hijectjacked.

 

- Anand

 

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi Nungali,

 

Anatomically how different is an Indian boy from his English brother?

 

Can you please PM on the correct English way...

 

I was colonized as a British Subject - but I am an ethnic Asian.

 

I want to be clean(ed) in memory of my Colony Master 

 

Thank you.

 

- Anand

 

 

They used to  wash  themselves and their undies at the same time .

 

I can vouch for the methods efficiency

 

In Indonesia its called , having a 'mandy' 

 

 

 

You pour water on yourself, and  'undies' , soap up and scrub  both and then pour more water on to rinse . 

 

Ie.   ( as my Aboriginal friend says about swimming in the camp waterhole , and everywhere else actually , decorum must persist  ) ;

 

" No nakedybum ! "    

 

 

 

The clean civilised English way is to have a bath once a week     

 

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

She's so beautiful

 

 

"I did but see her passing by, yet I'll lover her 'til I die.

 

thats what our old school 1950s PM said     

 

 

 

God !  I   WANT TO  hear what Phil said about that !     

 

( It might have even been better than what he said to PM of Nigeria ;

 

"Are you ready for bed already ! "

 

[Nungali]

15 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

The following is a Kirlian photo of an American chakra.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Thats the 4th   here is the 5th

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

one must learn to open their chakras

 

 

[dwai]

11 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

They used to  wash  themselves and their undies at the same time .

 

I can vouch for the methods efficiency

 

In Indonesia its called , having a 'mandy' 

 

 

 

You pour water on yourself, and  'undies' , soap up and scrub  both and then pour more water on to rinse . 

 

Ie.   ( as my Aboriginal friend says about swimming in the camp waterhole , and everywhere else actually , decorum must persist  ) ;

 

" No nakedybum ! "    

 

 

 

The clean civilised English way is to have a bath once a week     

 

It's a lot of fun to bathe like this. When I was a kid I used to bathe at a hand pump (called Tube Well) station near my grandpa's home in Calcutta with my cousins (summer-break). Oh and we do bathe every day (sometimes more than once a day  )

[3bob]

Mr. G. -  no thanks to that mess, (except for some ripped off fragments)  and revealing of the often grandiose babble form Mr. R. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by 3bob

[Nungali]

one could always go to the various source material that he harvested his stuff off ,   unless one feels he had a specific original valid insight , then he might have a use .   But not for me .