3bob Posted August 21, 2018 what a lot of folks are talking about is becoming an eternal/immortal in the future; anyone see a problem with that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted August 21, 2018 The only problem is that we die when we don't want to. There are plenty of supposed solutions, and there are also people who cope with the problem with imagination and philosophy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 21, 2018 what dies? (and what lives while we are at it?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rideforever Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) The individual receiving the light of the whole dies. New individuals are made like acorns. It's not a problem. However some acorns have a different future. A human when he dies he actually dies, meaning his eyes close and they do not open again. A Buddha when his body dies does not, since he is an oak, meaning his personal substance has become permanent. That is how it seems to be. Most humans are unable to really understand they are individuals, they cannot feel inside them who they are, because their individuality is still very very small. You can say it was always the whole that was looking through your eyes, and perhaps it is true, for the whole. Anyway, the question is more like can I become alive. Or what can I make out of life ? Everything of value has a price, and sometimes the price is high. Immortality is a great price. As for the question ... how can you work for something immortal ? This question is based on the premise that there is only the whole and so nothing to work for. However this is not quite true. The whole (Self/Tao) functions through the creation of temporary centres of identity all which are given part of the Self's identity. And they are supported through the space-time's bodies. At the end of their lives their light is recovered. However some reach realisation (they return early and form a bridge that is eternal). Humans live in a kind of depression where they always looking for ways to justify doing nothing. Even if it is hopeless why not try, what do you have to lose. You are dead already. Edited August 21, 2018 by rideforever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted August 21, 2018 37 minutes ago, 3bob said: what dies? (and what lives while we are at it?) People die. To assume that there's something eternal in your soul is a palliative to get some temporary relief. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) I'd say an assumption either way would not be enough and we would and will never be satisfied until we know for sure, one way or another. various forms live and die so to speak or a better way to put would be change...as for soul there are multiple definitions for it depending on the school...in Taoism's T.T.C. there is chapter 21 which is apparently false and meaningless to some - so why are those some here unless they to hope to find out one way or another for sure? Edited August 21, 2018 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted August 21, 2018 32 minutes ago, 3bob said: I'd say an assumption either way would not be enough and we would and will never be satisfied until we know for sure, one way or another. various forms live and die so to speak or a better way to put would be change...as for soul there are multiple definitions for it depending on the school...in Taoism's T.T.C. there is chapter 21 which is apparently false and meaningless to some - so why are those some here unless they to hope to find out one way or another for sure? Chapter 21 being false or meaningless? Could you explain what you mean by that comment? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Jeff said: Chapter 21 being false or meaningless? Could you explain what you mean by that comment? my sentence structure could have been better...but it still reads "to some" which also does not mean to all... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted August 21, 2018 1 hour ago, 3bob said: I'd say an assumption either way would not be enough and we would and will never be satisfied until we know for sure, one way or another. [...] This would be the case for most because we've been fed with philosophical abstractions since childhood: ideas like "eternity" and "omnipotence" shape dreams and fantasies in the western world. The consequence is that to imagine an immortal soul in the afterlife makes more sense than the idea of turning into rainbow unicorns that defecate stars and galaxies. According to your logic we are to bound to "know for sure" if each one of our fantasies is reality or not, in order to be satisfied. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 21, 2018 who assumed on top of other assumptions, the assumption to say, "of our fantasies", Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted August 21, 2018 18 minutes ago, 3bob said: who assumed on top of other assumptions, the assumption to say, "of our fantasies", To assume, to deduce and to think are our mental faculties. As functions in themselves, they're supported and produced by biological processes: they're not distinct eternal individualities. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
