[DDJ Meaning] Chapter 41

[dawei]

some exchanges on translators

 

 

David Hinton 2002

41

When the lofty hear of Way
they devote themselves.
When the common hear of Way
they wonder if it's real or not.
And when the lowly hear of Way
they laugh out loud.
Without that laughter, it wouldn't be Way.
Hence the abiding proverbs:
Luminous Way seems dark.
Advancing Way seems retreating.
Formless Way seems manifold.
High Integrity seems low-lying.
Great whiteness seems tarnished.
Abounding Integrity seems lacking.
Abiding Integrity seems missing.
True essence seems protean.
The great square has no corners,
and the great implement completes nothing.
The great voice sounds faint,
and the great image has no shape.
Way remains hidden and nameless,
but it alone nourishes and brings to completion.

 

Chad Hansen 2009

41

Playing with Reversal 
The 'superior' scholar hears a guide. 
He gets all serious and follows it. 
The 'medium' scholar hears a guide. 
It's like it endures; it's like it disappears! 
The 'lower' scholar hears a guide. 
He hilariously laughs at it. 
If he did not laugh, it would not be up to being deemed a guide. 
Hence, as the saying goes-- 
A discerning guide is like a murky one. 
An guide to advancing is like one to retreating. 
A guide to leveling is like one to roughing up. 
'Superior' virtuosity is like a valley. 
The greatest 'white' is like filthy. 
'Expansive' virtuosity is like 'insufficient.' 
'Creating' virtuosity is like 'stealing.' 
'Solid authenticity' is like 'sliminess.' 
The greatest square has no corners. 
The greatest artifact is never finished. 
The greatest note rarely sounds. 
The greatest sign lacks shape. 
Guides hide the lack of names. 
In general only guides are good at adopting and also completing. 
 

 

Lok Sang Ho 2002
41

Superior men, hearing about the Dao,
Will work diligently under its guidance.
Mediocre men, hearing about the Dao,
Remembers and then forgets about it.
Inferior men, hearing about the Dao,
Laughs and jeers at it.
If people do not laugh or jeer at it,
It is unlikely to be the Dao.70
Thus it is said:
Those whose mind shines with the Dao
Appear to be dull and stupid.
Those who make progress along the Dao
Appear to be falling behind.
Those who go astray
Appear to be following the Dao.
The truly virtuous are humble like a valley,71
The truly stainless souls appear sullied.
A man with many virtues
appears to be inadequate.
Those who are establishing their virtues
 look like thieves.
The truthful look like good quality turned bad,
An infinite space will have no corners.
A man who is a great instrument never  big voice sounds like it is soft.
A big symbol has no shape.
The Dao is hidden and nameless.
Yet nothing is better than the Dao
In lending support and helping people accomplish

 

Gu Zhengku 1993

41

Hearing the Tao, the best scholar assiduously practices it;
The average scholar half believes and half doubts it;
The worst scholar bursts into laughter about it.
If the worst scholar does not laugh about it,
The Tao is not worthy of being called the Tao.
That is why the ancients say:
The bright Tao seems dark;
The advancing Tao seems to be retreating;
The even Tao seems rough;
The great virtue resembles the valley;

 

Moss Roberts 2001

41

When men of service hearken to the Way,
The lofty strive to see it applied,
The average cannot seem to decide,
While the lower sort grandly deride.
Their derision makes Dao’s reputation.
So the Words of Guidance says:
“Seers of the Way seem not to see
And those who advance, to retreat.
The smoothest path seems unsure,
Honoured virtue seems undistinguished,
Ample virtue unqualified,
Resolute virtue undependable,
Stable virtue unfaithful.
Pure white seems impure,
Broad planes lack angles,
Great works take time,
Mighty voices rarely sound,
Grand vision has no set design,
Unknown the Way and thus unnamed.”
But the Way it is, the Way alone,
That brings first motions to fruition.

 

 

Flowing Hands 1987

41

The wise student hears of the Dao and it enters his heart.
And so he constantly practises to enlighten himself.
The average student of the Dao gives a thought when he hears about it, but he forgets it afterwards, and it does not fill his heart.
The foolish student hears of the Dao and laughs,
for he does not believe in such things.
When the Sage tells people about the Dao,
they laugh and scorn him.
The Dao would not be as great, if it wasn't for this.
So it is said, that to follow the Dao is a great struggle,
and the road always seems hard.
For when following the Dao, one must constantly give things up, and so it is like going backwards.
In having an open mind and heart,
great purity seems sullied.
Great virtue seems not to exist.
Great talents always seem to ripen with age.
For in following the Dao, one acts naturally, without any human stigma to influence or contort the mind and actions.

 

[Marblehead]

That's a toss-up between Lok Sang Ho and Flowing Hands.  I like them both.

 

[OldDog]

I am glad you included David Hinton. I do not have his translation of the DDJ but I have read ... and much enjoyed ... his Classical Chinese Poetry - An Anthology. He is a word-smith of the first magnitude. 

 

Thanks!

[rideforever]

"When the lofty hear of Way" ..... of the Way.     Perhaps the editor wishes to sound lofty himself.

 

 

41
The wise student hears of the Tao and 
practices it diligently.
The average student hears of the Tao 
and gives it thought now and again.
The foolish student hears of the Tao 
and laughs aloud.
If there were no laughter, the Tao 
would not be what it is.
Hence it is said:
The bright path seems dim;
Going forward seems like retreat;
The easy way seems hard;
The highest Virtue seems empty;
Great purity seems sullied;

 

A wealth of Virtue seems inadequate;
The strength of Virtue seems frail;
Real Virtue seems unreal;
The perfect square has no corners;
Great talents ripen late;
The highest notes are hard to hear;
The greatest form has no shape;
The Tao is hidden and without name.
The Tao alone nourishes and brings 
everything to fulfillment.

[OldDog]

8 hours ago, rideforever said:

When the lofty hear of Way" ..... of the Way.

 

I noticed that too ... and while I admire David Hinton's work, I wonder why he decided to not use the definite article. Is it his means of drawing attention to the ineffable ... indefinite ... nature of Dao? Seems a bit contrived ... possibly to the point of detracting from the translation. Lofty?

 

But that's the idea behind offering multiple translations ... to see how bbc.co others have understood the text and would communicate it to others.

[rideforever]

1 hour ago, OldDog said:

But that's the idea behind offering multiple translations ... to see how bbc.co others have understood the text and would communicate it to others.

 

Yeah, I also don't like it when people say "I feel spirit" or "that's not good for baby" (midwife expression).or "when Holy Spirit is present".

It is really pathetic. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Language

 

As for multiple translations, well maybe it's good sometimes, but it also distraction and lack of commitment and lack of taking a stand.  I often see in Christian-type spiritual meetings when a passage is about to be read out, 90% of the people go get their bible so they can stick their eyes on the page rather than listening.    And in other types of groups the teacher goes around and confiscates every book notepad or distraction to prevent people ruining their chance to listen.

 

In the translations of TTC I also don't like :

"The Superior Man"  - vain
"Scholar" - vain
"Men of Service" - vain and martyry

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by rideforever

[Stosh]

When a smartypants hears of the tao , he spurns it,

since it challenges what he considers to be the epitome of virtue ,

a thing he thinks he already has. 
When the ordinary person hears of the tao ,

he tries to fit it into boxes he already has,

and either obeys or fights with it, 

without coming to a new understanding. 
When the fool -

that is to say - the sincere Daoist - hears of it

, he laughs , because it is both obvious , and ironic.

It lightens his heart to have heard the truth spoken. 

[rideforever]

13 hours ago, rideforever said:

The easy way seems hard;

 

People imagine to make no effort will result in an easy life, but it leaves their lives in a painful chaos waiting for death.

Such people delight in making chaos and pulling people into it, then they can forget their miseries for one more hour.

It is far easier to walk the straight path and make the effort required.

 

 

13 hours ago, rideforever said:

The foolish student hears of the Tao 
and laughs aloud.
If there were no laughter, the Tao 
would not be what it is.

 

The alienness of real wisdom offers hope, only something different offers hope of something different.

[dawei]

14 hours ago, OldDog said:

I am glad you included David Hinton. I do not have his translation of the DDJ but I have read ... and much enjoyed ... his Classical Chinese Poetry - An Anthology. He is a word-smith of the first magnitude. 

 

Thanks!

 

EXACTLY.. I have many of his poetry books...   

[Sketch]

 

• Verse Forty One

 

The superior scholar-warrior

Smells the pathway

And does their work diligently.

 

The fair to middling scholar-warrior

Smelled the pathway

And thought  it would kill them to follow it.

 

The littlest  scholar-warrior laughed out loud at the whole idea.

 

It wouldn’t be the right path, if nobody laughed at it.

 

Some suggestions;

 

When it seems like the pathway is concealed and difficult to follow - you’re on the right track.

 

The correct path can be a difficult choice. 

All choices of what to do can seem polluted.

 

Great power can seem indifferent,

 

The loudest sound, a feeble cry of hope.

 

The big things coming

For good or ill

Are imaginary until they get here.

 

Just follow the pathway laid out before you

And you’ll be headed in the right direction.

You’ll get further.