[DDJ Meaning] Chapter 42

[voidisyinyang]

16 hours ago, OldDog said:

 

I have no doubt that what you say is true ... I just don't see it. Wish I could ... But I don't.  I love music but I have never been able to grasp music theory very well. That you speak about it so passionately is inspiring.

 

music theory is actually about UNlearning and instead listening. For example Jonathan Goldman, a "sound healer," has a new book called the "Humming Effect." I have not read it - just the free googlebook preview sections. But he has a quantum section in there. I sent him my research and his assistant/collaborator responded - an "overtone" singer.

 

So humming is pretty natural or whistling - just not even real whistling. When people are younger - they sing naturally from Motherese. It's proven the mother talks in "sing-eese" or sing-song - to the baby. So the voice is naturally based on octaves. There is a biologist or neuroscientist - has a book on "the biology of music" or something. So it's proven that "sad" music and "happy" music and "scary" music are universal emotions in music - understood even if a culture has never heard "western" music (happy is major, sad is minor and scary is tritone or diminished).

 

So EVERY human culture uses the octave as 1:2 and the Perfect Fifth (yang) as 3:2 and the Perfect Fourth as 4:3 (yin) to create the 10,000 things.

 

But when we get a Westernized education we are learning math and logic based on symmetry due to the WRONG music theory! Of course we are not told that Western math (like the Pythagorean theorem) is from the WRONG music theory!

 

So someone comes along and talks about music theory and you say - "I don't know music theory" - but you do! The square root of two is from 9/8 as the major 2nd tone that is cubed as the tritone (scary sound). Of course we don't learn the Pythagorean theorem this way but in fact that is the true origin of the square root of two, from the major 2nd music interval.

 

So in fact 9/8 is from 3/2 (squared) and then "halved" back into the same "octave." So in Daoist harmonics that "operation" or algorithm DOES NOT TAKE PLACE. So that algorithm already assumes a geometric continuum based on symmetric logic of ratios.

 

So this is a DEEP "pre-established disharmony - to quote math prof. Luigi Borzacchini. So we don't even realize we were taught the WRONG music theory - and yet that's why we don't understand Daoist yin-yang-Emptiness harmonics.

 

So with music as complementary opposites - then the Single Perfect Yang is the Perfect Fifth as pitch but it is also 2/3 and 3/2 at the SAME TIME as subharmonic and overtone harmonic at the same time. So this is what the West tries to call nonlinear systems theory - but again "systems theory" ALREADY assumes the logarithmic symmetric math - commutative logic.

 

So in fact what is required is a lot of UNlearning. You already know music theory without realizing it and it's the WRONG music theory. haha. Just study the book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality - and that is the music theory of the body-mind-spirit-Emptiness. Or the book Foundations of Internal Alchemy - Wang Mu - Pregadio explicitly states that the microcosmic orbit/Small universe meditation IS FROM MUSIC THEORY!! haha.

 

So back to the synergy example - in Chinese Daoist harmonics the "octave" does not equal 2 as the "same" doubling. So you create the scale from the Perfect Fifth as yang and then the PErfect Fourth as yin. You keep alternating - yang-yin-yang-yin, etc. But you STOP before reaching the next octave at the 12th note. Why? Well there is no NEED for Western harmonics because there is no NEED to "contain" the octave as a geometric symmetry!!  So the numbers keep expanding and contracting as a spiral that is actually formless, that can only be listened to.

 

So the "music" scale is just a modal scale without the need nor desire for harmonic chords that are all equalized and interchangeable as standardized PARTS. On the contrary -

 

 

[Limahong]

4 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

So someone comes along and talks about music theory and you say - "I don't know music theory" - but you do!

 

Hi voidisyinyang,

 

Honestly ~ "I don't know music theory" and I like to borrow this from OldDog as a reiteration...

 

21 hours ago, OldDog said:

I have no doubt that what you say is true ... I just don't see it. Wish I could ... But I don't.  I love music but I have never been able to grasp music theory very well. That you speak about it so passionately is inspiring.

 

 

But something in this from you caught my attention...

 

4 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

But when we get a Westernized education we are learning math and logic based on symmetry due to the WRONG music theory! Of course we are not told that Western math (like the Pythagorean theorem) is from the WRONG music theory!

  

It is the Pythagorean theorem...

 

 

 

But I am not associating Pythagoras  theorem (PT) with music theory ~ but my "experience with existence (E:E)" on a road less traveled thus...

A + B => C => DC

 

Per E:E ... ~ A²  + B²  > C²  which is unlike...

For PT...   ~ a² + b² = c² 

 

As  'A²  + B²  > C^{2 '} ~ synergy comes into being.

 

You may be curious to know what 'DC' is. It is C associated with Destiny.

 

My apology ~ I cannot divulge too much as A, B, C and DC pertain to a private unmusical road less traveled.

 

- Anand

Edited April 19, 2019 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[OldDog]

7 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

So it's proven that "sad" music and "happy" music and "scary" music are universal emotions in music ...

 

I have no doubt about the emotional content of music. I experience that all the time and often use music to set the mood for what I am planning to do, knowing that corresponding music will enhance the outcome.

 

7 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

But when we get a Westernized education we are learning math and logic based on symmetry due to the WRONG music theory! Of course we are not told that Western math (like the Pythagorean theorem) is from the WRONG music theory!

 

Isn't this a sort of chicken or the egg kind of thing? That is, presupposing that music theory is the impetus for math evolution. No doubt humans learned to beat a drum or hum a tune before they learned to take a derivative but it seems the underlaying math was always present even if not expressed. Maybe its just western ... and I use the term provisionally at the moment ... bias, but math would seem universal, that a mathematical model could be found to fit any phenomena. Still, there are different senses of what is musical in different cultures ... thinking scales as an example here. If what you propose is the case, one might expect there to have developed different mathematics in different cultures. But, math is math ... while there might be different forms within mathematics, it is still just math. Hard to wrap my head around.

 

Can you provide an example of music that is representative of a different notion of math? Perhaps I can hear the difference even if I don't understand the math.

.

[voidisyinyang]

56 minutes ago, OldDog said:

 

I have no doubt about the emotional content of music. I experience that all the time and often use music to set the mood for what I am planning to do, knowing that corresponding music will enhance the outcome.

 

 

Isn't this a sort of chicken or the egg kind of thing? That is, presupposing that music theory is the impetus for math evolution. No doubt humans learned to beat a drum or hum a tune before they learned to take a derivative but it seems the underlaying math was always present even if not expressed. Maybe its just western ... and I use the term provisionally at the moment ... bias, but math would seem universal, that a mathematical model could be found to fit any phenomena. Still, there are different senses of what is musical in different cultures ... thinking scales as an example here. If what you propose is the case, one might expect there to have developed different mathematics in different cultures. But, math is math ... while there might be different forms within mathematics, it is still just math. Hard to wrap my head around.

 

Can you provide an example of music that is representative of a different notion of math? Perhaps I can hear the difference even if I don't understand the math.

.

Quote

 

I have no doubt about the emotional content of music. I experience that all the time and often use music to set the mood for what I am planning to do, knowing that corresponding music will enhance the outcome.

 

 

Isn't this a sort of chicken or the egg kind of thing? That is, presupposing that music theory is the impetus for math evolution. No doubt humans learned to beat a drum or hum a tune before they learned to take a derivative but it seems the underlaying math was always present even if not expressed. Maybe its just western ... and I use the term provisionally at the moment ... bias, but math would seem universal, that a mathematical model could be found to fit any phenomena. Still, there are different senses of what is musical in different cultures ... thinking scales as an example here. If what you propose is the case, one might expect there to have developed different mathematics in different cultures. But, math is math ... while there might be different forms within mathematics, it is still just math. Hard to wrap my head around.

 

Can you provide an example of music that is representative of a different notion of math? Perhaps I can hear the difference even if I don't understand the math.

.

 

 

No - there are several human cultures that do not count about the number five - instead just using "several" or as in the case of Daoism - "10,000 things" - and again ALL human cultures use the octave, Perfect Fifth, Perfect Fourth that has infinite resonance as the empirical truth of reality.

 

So the Western math based on the continuum assumes a materialistic foundation of reality - called "idealistic materialism" in philosophy. So in other words the "infinity" is considered a measuring process directly tied to technology. Math professor Abraham Seidenberg researched the ritual origins of Western  math - in the Brahmin and Zoroastrian and Egyptian religious solar calendar rituals. And so at first there was a symmetric logic based on "divide and average" logic.

 

I corresponded with math professor Luigi Borzacchini who also researched this comparative math issue, and the music origins of Western math. So at first there was a "negative paradox judgment" - which is what is being debated between Brahmins and Buddhists about what Sunyata means as "zero." And Aristotle was also against zero as "negative infinity." So in the West, the zero is tied to the geometric continuum also containing logistics or logarithms - irrational magnitude.

 

What happened, as Professor Richard McKirahan documents, is that the mathematical term for geometric magnitude was transferred into music theory that uses continued proportions as ratios. So then it could be argued that there is a reduction to absurdity about rational number ratios and therefore an Alogon geometric ratio music exist in the music ratios. So the mathematical term "surd" in Arabic is a direct translation from Alogon. The west normally considers Logos to mean ratio as in logical geometric reasoning but actually Logos is from music theory with Alogon meaning no musical rational ratio.

 

But to say that there is no geometric rational ratio is NOT the same as to say there is no infinite resonance through pure number as harmonics, that can be logically inferred. Stephen Hawking makes this point about Indian mathematics in his book "God Created the Integers." So in India there was the divide and average math, just as in Babylonia, but the geometry was not reducible to a numerical arithmetic - rather the irrational ratios were considered to be "transcendent" to an immaterial reality, as "sacred" geometry. But with Archytas and Philolaus - the music ratios lended themselves to an emphasis on "logistics" or pure ratios without the need for a visual geometric proof.  China adopted the 10-based rod system of counting from India - because try to subtract the lunar calendar from the solar calendar using ideogram language numbers!

 

Since the musical proof was a  "Negative judgement paradox" then that which could not be demonstrated physically through geometry must therefore not be talked about - it can only be logically inferred through silence as meditation. But once this proof was demonstrated in music then it could be transferred into geometry by simply covering up the inherent noncommutative ratios embedded into the irrational continuum. In other words - when we LISTEN to music, our ear does not distinguish between the noncommutative ratios - they are both heard as the Perfect Fifth even though the geometric ratio to the "one" or root tonic is not the same. So the Perfect Fifth is the Single Perfect Yang but it contains within it both yin and yang at the same time - as a nondual or noncommutative phase. So the ratio 2/3 as C to F subharmonic was NOT allowed in Greek music mathematics in order to cover up this noncommutative or complementary opposite yin-yang resonance, as the empirical truth of reality.

 

OK so for Archytas relying on Philolaus using the "double octave" or "Greater Perfect System" - then what was called the Subcontrary Mean (the Perfect Fourth as Yin) was then changed into the Harmonic Mean with only 4/3 allowed. So for Archtyas, the equation in music theory was then (Arithmetic Mean x Harmonic Mean = Geometric Mean Squared). This was the FIRST logarithmic equation and thereby launched the Greek Miracle as the continuum. This is discussed in math professor Luigi Borzacchini's 2007 publication but he was discussing it on a math forum with mathematicians in 1999.  So he notes in his published paper that Plato's dialogs about irrational numbers then refer to 16, 17, 18 from Egyptian math (based on Isis, Osiris and Horus, cited by Plutarch). But, as Borzacchini points out, this is the same ratio attempt to divide 9/8 evenly - although it is obviously not an even ratio. This was the basis for Archytas' proof against the ability to divide the Octave or the 2 into even rational ratios.

 

So in every human culture around the world - it is just accepted that music is based on intuitive listening as harmonics - and this inherently contains 1:2:3:4 as complementary opposites, the empirical truth of reality. But for Plato he argued that a "unit" is an inherent geometry symmetry that pre-exists BEFORE counting numbers - as a Platonic Ideal. So therefore, Plato argued, that this is obvious if we consider our 2 eyes or our 2 hands or 2 feet - these are all first considered as an "empty set" or geometric ideal of 2 that is not differentiated as a cardinal or ordinal number. Rather it is simply just a "symmetric empty set" as 2.

 

But anyone who studies Daoist alchemy knows that Plato's claim was a total lie!! We know that the left eye for males is yin qi and yang shen and the right eye is yang qi and yin shen and the left hand for males is yang and the right hand is yin and the left foot for males is yang and the right foot is yin. We know that for males the lower body is yin and upper body is yang and the outside external body is yang and the internal body is yin and the back of the body is yang and the front of the body is yin. In contrast to the Left eye being Yin qi, the Left ear is Yang qi. This is the exception to listening perception - and the secret in Daoist alchemy referred to as seeing with the Ears or listening with the eyes.

 

So Plato, Archytas and Eudoxus and Philolaus - they contrived a very sophisticated "bait and switch" system - something that math professor Luigi Borzacchini calls a "deep pre-established disharmony." Why? Because inherent to this materialistic idealism geometric continuum is a left-brain cognitive bias that assumes a linear ordering of time. This is why science has proven that humans can hear FASTER than Fourier Uncertainty (the technical and mathematical limit of technological measurement of time as a linear operator). So our human hearing is inherently noncommutative and nondual (and at the subangstrom wavelength - smaller than light waves). And the phase coherence between the right and left ear is inherently noncommutative. I have corresponded with physics professor Manfred Euler about this - who considers the right and left ear to be the analog of a quantum "double slit" experiment, thereby proving the nondual nonlocal and noncommutative foundation of reality through time-frequency harmonics.

 

So what appears to be very simple intuitive cultures based on music (non-literate and no math) is actually a very precise "quantum biology" resonance culture using quantum relativistic math (modeled by noncommutative phase logic or de Broglie's Law of Phase Harmony). Science can not "unify" relativity and quantum physics because of what is called the "measurement problem" in quantum physics - which is the inherent noncommutative phase of time with frequency. But this is because science assumes a visual measurement of time as a linear operator. And also this visual measurement inherently creates Entropy - whereas the empirical reality of life is from Negentropy - as Schroedinger realized in the 1930s when he published his book, "What is Life?"

 

So to say that other cultures just have a different type of math, does not acknowledge that Western mathematics has a deep preestablished disharmonic bias - a "cognitive bias" as math prof. Luigi Borzacchini calls it - that is the "guiding evoltive principle" of science as Borzacchini calls is.  So Western science tries to argue, as you have done, with your Western bias, that math is "inherent" to reality - but does not realize that Western math has an inherent "externality" due to the Western materialistic idealism bias that has covered up the inherent noncommutative phase or nonlocal nondual foundation of reality. Science debates which is "first" in reality - mathematics or physics. Philosophy of Science professor Oliver L. Reiser called this the "Music logarithmic spiral" - a term from Esther Watson (daughter of famed inventor Thomas Watson). Esther corresponded with Einstein about this "music logarithmic spiral" as Einstein supported their research - on what I dubbed the Actual Matrix Plan. https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_matrix43.htm

 

But now even "biology" has been considered to be first, as physics professor Brian Josephson has realized and he practices qigong regularly - he also is the basis for the origin of the Volt, and for the creation of MRI machines, etc. - he got the Nobel prize for his Josephson Effect. But I have corresponded with Nobel physicist Josephson also - about music theory.

 

So now Professor emeritus Josephson is studying math professor Louis Kauffman who worked with Eddie Oshins on this noncommutative phase secret of Daoist Neigong alchemy training. Professor Josephson now argues that this acoustic alchemy is the secret of reality as well - through cymatics but again with this secret noncommutative phase foundation. And as I have pointed out - Fields Medal math professor Alain Connes makes this same argument about music theory - that music provides the "formal language" to explain noncommutative phase logic that enables a unification of relativity and quantum physics. The only problem with this new Western science insight (that is just realizing the secret truth of the ancients) is that Western science and its originators in Brahmin-Vedic-Egyptian math - this is created an inherent entropy on Earth as the destruction of ecology.

 

Quote

As proved by Hawking, had the Universe's entropy increased been reversed, this reversal would be impossible to observe. This is because time orientation of all biological processes (as we show elsewhere in detail) relies solely on entropy's increase.

 

Avshalom C. Elitzur, Shahar Dolev
Black-Hole Uncertainty Entails An Intrinsic Time Arrow, Dec. 2000

 

So this is the "cognitive bias" that math professor Luigi Borzacchini is referring to, whereas in the PreSocratic greek culture, as in nonwestern cultures, the music plays a much stronger cognitive bias. The musical training is considered the foundation of the culture for spiritual healing - and this musical training is a different type of biological time process than the Western bias of "observation" as a left brain measurement using technology. I have also discussed this paradox with math professor Joe Mazur who had asked me to submit my music research for publication in a math journal. He is now finishing a new book on time perception - and he said he was going to include a chapter on music. I asked him to consider Precognition - since I know that precognition is real but almost all of Western science precludes such a possibility.

 

For examples of the music - go to Dr. Victor Grauer's website, "Sounding the Depths" - his old blog. I have corresponded with him as well. He gives links to audio-visual examples of the original human culture music as it spread around the world (and became the basis for Daoism). http://soundingthedepths.blogspot.com/p/audio-visual-examples.html

 

But you would have to study the San Bushmen culture to find the secrets of this music. It is similar to mantra meditation.

 

Quote

Quote

We feel vibrant buzzing, hear uplifting tonal hum inside...always music in our heart and head

 

 

to quote the San Bushmen original human culture.

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by voidisyinyang

[OldDog]

3 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

So Western science tries to argue, as you have done, with your Western bias, that math is "inherent" to reality ...

 

So, it appears that I argue from an unsafe position ... that is, I am unable to shed enough of my western bias in attempting to understand what you have presented. However, you have left enough clues for me to pickup and follow ... perhaps get an inkling of what you are saying. I will try to remember to delve into this when I have finished my excursion into the world of metaphor.

 

For me this discussion lacks a frame of reference that I can latch onto for grounding ... and, in a way, points to the reason why I have had such difficulties with mathematics. If I can not relate to something more tangible then it begins to lose meaning for me.

 

As an old philosopher once said ... " I yam what I yam."

 

Thanks for taking the time.

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, OldDog said:

However, you have left enough clues for me to pickup and follow ... perhaps get an inkling of what you are saying.

 

Hi OldDog,

 

When I have no clue

And there is no glue

I will not be  ~  blue

 

I like to go on floral trips knowing full well that I cannot/will not be able to have all the blooms in my garden...

 

 

There are many pieces in my life and l only connect the dots that spell meaning and life. Whenever I get new blooms in my garden, I am over the moon ~ especially the unexpected ones.

 

Bro ~ life is a garden, just let 10,000 flowers show off...

 

On 8/25/2018 at 3:22 AM, dawei said:

Way gave birth to one,
and one gave birth to two.
Two gave birth to three,
and three gave birth to the ten thousand things.
Then the ten thousand things shouldered yin and embraced yang,
blending ch'i to establish harmony.

 

Let us 'live and let live' to stay alive ... 'A + B => C => DC' ... as 'simple' as ABC in Destiny.

 

- Anand

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Limahong
Correct...

[Limahong]

On 4/19/2019 at 4:09 AM, vonkrankenhaus said:

Embryo in womb experiences and knows. But not Words.

 

Hi vonkrankenhaus,

 

Per your above input, I responded ~

But now that I am out of the womb, I don't know what I don't know.

 

And you added...

On 4/19/2019 at 5:18 AM, vonkrankenhaus said:

Just  like inside the womb.

 

I find the above engaging ~

(a) 'in womb' - I apparently knew everything without words?

(b) When I am now outside,  you are implying that I also know everything without words ~ 'just like inside the womb'?

(c) I don't know what I don't know - because of words?

 

Is 'in womb' different from 'just like inside the womb'? I ask because of the italicization.

 

- Anand

 

[vonkrankenhaus]

3 hours ago, Limahong said:

I find the above engaging ~

(a) 'in womb' - I apparently knew everything without words?

(b) When I am now outside,  you are implying that I also know everything without words ~ 'just like inside the womb'?

(c) I don't know what I don't know - because of words?

 

Is 'in womb' different from 'just like inside the womb'? I ask because of the italicization.

 

I had written:

"Embryo in womb experiences and knows. But not Words."

 

And then, after you wrote: "But now that I am out of the womb, I don't know what I don't know."

 

I wrote: "Just  like inside the womb"

 

What I mean is that in the womb you have no words to associate to your experiences, but you do have experience and thus also knowledge.

 

I did not ever write that you know "everything" in the womb. All we know is that you didn't really know words at that time.

 

All I wrote was: "Embryo in womb experiences and knows. But not Words."

 

But I didn't say "what" the embryo experiences and knows, just that it does.

 

Now that you are out of womb, you do know words, but you still do not know what you do not know.

 

Just like in the womb.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Limahong]

3 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

Now that you are out of womb, you do know words, but you still do not know what you do not know.

 

Hi vonkrankenhaus,

 

Words are not just words. I will not take words for granted 

 

Better a mental model without words.

 

- Anand

[voidisyinyang]

20 hours ago, OldDog said:

 

So, it appears that I argue from an unsafe position ... that is, I am unable to shed enough of my western bias in attempting to understand what you have presented. However, you have left enough clues for me to pickup and follow ... perhaps get an inkling of what you are saying. I will try to remember to delve into this when I have finished my excursion into the world of metaphor.

 

For me this discussion lacks a frame of reference that I can latch onto for grounding ... and, in a way, points to the reason why I have had such difficulties with mathematics. If I can not relate to something more tangible then it begins to lose meaning for me.

 

As an old philosopher once said ... " I yam what I yam."

 

Thanks for taking the time.

 

yes the "western bias" is actually hard-wired as left-brain and right-hand dominance. So Michael Corballis, another prof. I corresponded with, has figured out that human language developed BECAUSE of tool use with the right hand. So in the original human culture - the healing trance songs were purposely using GIBBERISH for words because this N/om or Qi or Prana energy is based on our deep reptilian right-side vagus nerve to the 2nd brain (the gut). So with strong music training on an instrument - before the age of 7 - science has proven that this is the only Western practice that dramatically increases the corpus callosum that integrates the right and left brain. So the right side vagus nerve connects to the left side of the brain and music as frequency melody is right brain dominant. But the left side language brain vagus nerve does NOT connect to the right side of the brain!! So when we listen to music - especially with the eyes closed as visualization (our "attention" is also right brain dominant) - then this "empties" out the left brain via a deep right side vagus nerve activation of the left side of the brain.

 

So the syllogism, "I am what I am" is a circular tautology - that defines God or Brahman - and think of the "I" as the ONE and the AM as the 2:3:4 of music harmonics. The "that" is the 5th dimension that can not be seen - a Klein Bottle demonstrates this. So this is an ancient reference to the Bull as the last wild animal to be domesticated as a work animal. The wild bull that was NOT used as the work animal to pull the plow - was then ritually sacrificed in honor of the Solar calendar. But originally the wild Bull was the oldest religious training on Earth by humans - the Eland Bull trance dance at the first menstruation during the New Moon. So the female is Yang internally since the female via the vagus nerve orgasm, then naturally sublimates her male "yin qi" (yang jing) energy. Whereas the male has to be "initiated" into this secret of the female psychic lunar pineal gland energy via the deep right side vagus nerve activation. So in the original human culture ALL males were required to train in trance dance as "staying power" - with a month of fasting during the height of puberty - so that the life force energy was reunited back with the spirit to access the N/om of the Universe or Cosmic Ostrich Egg cracking open - the Tai Chi.

 

So Western science is actually not a "bias" but a structural drive of the elements on Earth - of fire as the Solar calendar taking over the Lunar psychic energy. The illusion of male patriarchy is then "hard-wired" as a lower back blockage - the inability to sit in full lotus yoga position then manifests this lower back blockage as a 2nd brain blockage. So the modern male is thereby controlled by their lower emotional drives as a subconscious drive of Science itself. This means that the technology as Machine is taking over - as Metal via Fire tries to wipe out Earth and Wood. But the WATER is macroquantum and governs life on Earth. So in the end the secret of the Single Perfect Yang is hidden within the Water energy as alchemy - to create new matter as the "golden key" - or from virtual photons from the future.

 

 

[Limahong]

22 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

yes the "western bias" is actually hard-wired as left-brain and right-hand dominance.

 

22 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

Western science is actually not a "bias" but a structural drive of the elements on Earth

 

Hi voidinyinyang,

 

From ~ Rudyard Kipling's "The Ballad of East and West" ... 

 

Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

- Wikipedia

 

 

 

 

 

FOUR SEAS - ONE FAMILY...

 

 

- Anand

 

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[Limahong]

23 hours ago, OldDog said:

"I yam what I yam."

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[Limahong]

On 8/26/2018 at 9:25 AM, dawei said:

That the 'three' are the result of the polarity of Yin and Yang.  I've seen some explain it as thus, Yin + Yang + their interactive result.  It may be that Von is saying the interactive results are three and to be considered the three.

 

Hi dawei,

 

From an "experience of existence" on the road less traveled ~

 

(a) "The 'three' are the result of the polarity of Yin and Yang" ... 

A + B => C

 

C is three

 

 

(b) I've seen some explain it as thus, Yin + Yang + their interactive result ...

A + B => C => DC

DC is C re an interactive result linked to Destiny

 

- Anand

 

[Limahong]

 

On 8/25/2018 at 3:22 AM, dawei said:

Chad Hansen 2009

 

Hi dawei,

 

I try to roughly sense the thoughts behind Jim's ...

 

On 8/25/2018 at 9:14 PM, Marblehead said:

I don't have his published work so I can't respond to the question.

 

'What words?' - what even if Jim ha(d)s Chad Hansen's published work?

 

- Anand

 

[Limahong]

On 4/14/2019 at 6:55 AM, OldDog said:

Kinda glad we came back to this discussion of one to two to three.

 

Hi OldDog,

 

Pearls of wisdom...?

 

On 8/26/2018 at 5:50 AM, Marblehead said:

I think the most important thing to try to conceptualize is that Dao consists of process; Tzujan.

 

So going backward we have, Man, the Earth, the Heavens.  Man would not exist if the Earth did not exist, Earth would not be if the Heavens did not exist. The Heavens would not exist if the beginning of a new cycle had not started.

 

Can almost picture Jim THERE ~ chuckling at us re Chapter 42.

 

- Anand

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[OldDog]

True enough.  I agree with Marble's sense of process. Which, by the way, is underscored in the link that Bindi provided on the Chinese model of cognition.

 

Sure do miss Marbles.

[Limahong]

2 hours ago, OldDog said:

I agree with Marble's sense of process... model of cognition.

 

Hi OldDog

 

Acceptable mental processual models of cognition...?

 

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- Anand

Edited April 23, 2019 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[dawei]

8 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi dawei,

 

From an "experience of existence" on the road less traveled ~

 

(a) "The 'three' are the result of the polarity of Yin and Yang" ... 

A + B => C

 

C is three

 

 

(b) I've seen some explain it as thus, Yin + Yang + their interactive result ...

A + B => C => DC

DC is C re an interactive result linked to Destiny

 

- Anand

 

 

You are creating two scenarios but I was talking one and the same in both cases... so I did not suggest (a) ... and (b) should be as:

 

A + B => C = A+B+C

 

D is a fourth level construct... or a part of the 10,000.

 

Not sure if this pendantic evaluation and discussion is helping anyone or not 

[Limahong]

2 hours ago, dawei said:

You are creating two scenarios but I was talking one and the same in both cases...

 

Hi dawei,

 

My feelings/thoughts pertain to ONE experience ~ not an experience.

 

Here ONE hints at an experience felt with the traveler's Taoist perceptions (rightly/wrongly to others). They pertain to a nondescript road less traveled.

 

2 hours ago, dawei said:

... so I did not suggest (a) ... and (b) should be as: A + B => C = A+B+C

 

The ONE experience is shared per one perceptive path : A + B => C => DC

 

It start with A and B as in Yin and Yang ... leading to C ... and DC ... and beyond...

 

With 'A + B + C' ~ are you on another path which is different from mine? If so, I will suggest nothing as I cannot suggest anything.

 

2 hours ago, dawei said:

D is a fourth level construct... or a part of the 10,000.

 

My path has DC and not D (which I cannot comprehend). 

 

A + B => C => DC ~ in not definitive. I am new on this path and 'a part of the 10,000' is beyond my embryonic status at the moment.

 

2 hours ago, dawei said:

Not sure if this pendantic evaluation and discussion is helping anyone or not

 

Thesaurus synonyms of pendantic ~ 

• abstruse
• pompous
• stilted
• academic
• arid
• didactic
• doctrinaire
• donnish
• dry
• dull
• egotistic
• erudite
• formal
• fussy
• hairsplitting
• learned
• nit-picking
• ostentatious
• overnice
• particular
• pedagogic
• priggish
• punctilious
• scholastic
• schoolish
• sententious

 

A + B => C => DC is antonymous to pendantic. It is a personal mental model per a quiet/private road less traveled.

 

- Anand

 

[Limahong]

On 4/14/2019 at 6:55 AM, OldDog said:

As an aside ... but not entirely unrelated . .. ever notice how often "three" occurs in the ancient texts? The three Emperor's ... the three August Ones ... three days, three months, three years, etc. It's like "three" is an expression representing multiple occurrences, not literally three. (1)

 

Hi OldDog,

 

"three" as in a Trinity ~ in which the perceptual whole is greater then the sum of the parts...

 

 

"A triangle is perceived in the figure. This happens because you perceive the whole image as one."

- A Render Blog

 

Another synergy in perception?

 

- Anand

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[Limahong]

On 4/14/2019 at 6:55 AM, OldDog said:

As an aside ... but not entirely unrelated . .. ever notice how often "three" occurs in the ancient texts? The three Emperor's ... the three August Ones ... three days, three months, three years, etc. It's like "three" is an expression representing multiple occurrences, not literally three. (2)

 

Hi OldDog,

 

A Bum has PM me thus...

 

"The topic of DDJ Chapter 42 has veered too far. So I don't really expect anyone to comment."

 

(S)he is thinking of splitting it. Really? How?

 

If the topic on Chapter 42 is to be (or can be) split, is it because...?

Way gave birth to one,
and one gave birth to two.
Two gave birth to three,
and three gave birth to the ten thousand things.
Then the ten thousand things shouldered yin and embraced yang,
blending ch'i to establish harmony.

- David Hinton 2002

 

- Anand

 

[OldDog]

2 hours ago, Limahong said:

(S)he is thinking of splitting it.

 

Topics do sometimes go astray ... too much extraneous stuff.

 

I try to keep my comments relevant to the point of the thread as concise as possible.

 

No doubt s(he) as an admin has tools at hand to edit the thread.

 

I think we probably played this one out.

[dawei]

2 hours ago, OldDog said:

I think we probably played this one out.

 

Any staff has the tools. 

 

[Limahong]

18 hours ago, dawei said:

Any staff has the tools.

 

Hi dawei,

 

I can almost hear Jim guffawing - Hehehe.

 

- Anand

[Limahong]

20 hours ago, OldDog said:

I try to keep my comments relevant to the point of the thread as concise as possible.

 

Hi OldDog,

 

 

 

 

Polonius:
My liege, and madam, to expostulate
What majesty should be, what duty is,
What day is day, night night, and time is time,
Were nothing but to waste night, day, and time;
Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
I will be brief. Your noble son is mad. . . .

Hamlet Act 2, scene 2, 86–92

 

- Anand