Santi for the lungs : but other organs ?

[rideforever]

I am interested in Santi, but what of the other organs ?   Does it create imbalance ?

I particularly like Santi because I am able to release deep blockages from the legs because it is quite a strong posture and has some spiral movement in it that seems to work with the blockages.

 

Ideally I would like to find 4 other postures of similar spiral / strong nature, that work on the other organs, to make a set.

 

I have a set of ZZ postures from Lam Kam Chuen but they are straight up and down postures which I don't find interesting or releasing.

 

Perhaps someone can help me with specific information ?

 

 

[Miffymog]

Lam Kam Chuen's next book, 'The Way of Power', takes things forward quite a bit, including some pretty advanced postures.

[doc benway]

5 hours ago, rideforever said:

I am interested in Santi, but what of the other organs ?   Does it create imbalance ?

I particularly like Santi because I am able to release deep blockages from the legs because it is quite a strong posture and has some spiral movement in it that seems to work with the blockages.

 

Ideally I would like to find 4 other postures of similar spiral / strong nature, that work on the other organs, to make a set.

 

I have a set of ZZ postures from Lam Kam Chuen but they are straight up and down postures which I don't find interesting or releasing.

 

Perhaps someone can help me with specific information ?

 

 

 

One of my favorites comes from baguazhang:

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by steve

[beingnature]

I would also go for way of power. The dragon posture and holding down the tiger are very demanding and clearing.But i would also do the basics... because with enough practice time they also change a lot.And it is like they are all interrelated.

[Earl Grey]

It does not create imbalance, rest assured, so long as you are standing an equal amount of time on each side. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Earl Grey

[doc benway]

There are a variety of arm positions one can use with this basic bagua standing posture.

I do recommend warming up a bit first and taking it very slowly in terms of building up duration.

It really works the core and trunk musculature and, if unfamiliar, you can get pretty sore.

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

I can recommend this posture, i really like what it does for aspects of all five phases. It takes a while getting used to it and develop it, it should however be a very efficient complement to the classic Santi.

 

 

My tradition calls the form Golden Bridge iirc, the hand posture is called Single Star Finger Palm but its a classic form that exists in variations across many  styles, most probably recognize it from Hung Ga based movie kung fu. Don’t scoff, this form is VERY good, the hand form alone is strong and easy to master and can be used for striking, pushing, stabbing, shoving, gripping, but do not try to condition this hand by striking, that is the wrong approach and will cause injury. Curse you thousandfold and lightning strike your head if you use it to harm the weak or innocent. (Seriously.)

 

Apply basic Tai Chi/Sung common sense:

Build up depth of stance over time and do not fall into sitting with your knees at 90 degrees, 89 is absolute maximum. I find that many also do this stance far too wide while going too deep, this can easily cause further blockage and even injury. Be wary and give yourself time to find your strong spots.

 

Straightened small of back, slightly rounded out shoulders so that your scapulae separate, elbows down, fingers tight together (no space or stretching between index and middle finger in my lineage) and the thumb should be kept just far enough into the palm that you cant see it yourself.

The thumb side of the edge should align more or less with the outer horizontal line of your shoulders and keep everything except your index finger below shoulder line. Hands should be as relaxed as possible. Some find this hand VERY hard to form without tensing up or aching after a short time. Build slowly and massage your hands to loosen up.

 

Correct distance between hands (and angle of elbow) and chest is measured by being able to fit a fist horizontally between your ribs and the tip of your elbow on the upper arm side.

 

For comparison with the picture i teach this posture so you can see a little bit more of the lower arm from the front and the hands would be positioned not over one two palms width more apart compared to the illustration.

 

Enter this position slowly and do not tense or tighten anything you dont need to keep your form.

Hands should not be used in the classic Hung Ga ”dynamic tension” exercise, this is not what you’re doing now, i personally dont recommend that exercise at all but i’m not Hung Ga so no disrespect intended.

Stay relaxed and let structure give unmoving power forwards and outwards, no need to engage muscles to push.

Stand for as long as you can without straining or forcing, take a short break and start over. It can take years to learn this form of standing exercise properly but it does wonders for qi, sung and structural power. I only understood a fraction of its potentials a few years back, it’s one of my faves now.

 

Breathing should be relaxed and abdominal, either natural or reversed as you want. This exercise also gives great opportunity to practice 360 degree abdominal expansion, finnicky but a great exercise to avoid imbalances or blockage at the core.

 

Eyes can be closed or open (choose which you want before each practice session and stick to that) but i prefer the latter. Smile and relax your vision and focus.

If you feel heavy in your body you need to find the strength later and first of all correct your bu fa (footwork). Feet must be parallell and on one line, toes pointing ahead. Knees should never travel over the line that is between your left and right little toe.

When done correctly this posture more or less supports itself.

 

Thats a fairly detailed overview.

 

Start out slowly and increase your sitting time slowly, keep your pace of increase slightly slower than you feel you can deal with: don’t waste energy but rather invest it cautiously.

 

Entering the form: stand at attention with fists knuckle down outside of your hip bones, left foot moves out and plants on ground. While you transfer your bodyweight evenly across both feet arms start moving upwards in a circular motion. You describe two overlapping semicircles in front of you, underarms crossed and palms upward.

As you go deeper and your hands start to come close to the height of where your collarbones meet near the conception channel you turn your palms out from facing you and move them to the illustrated position. Power is concentrated at your palms so called knife edge.

 

Exiting the form:

Double vertical backfists (similar to how some Wing Chun branches ”define the center”) while you first transfer body weight to your right side and then step back to attention. No falling into position or leaning out of it, carefully control your body weight and its direction always.

 

PM any questions.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Small addition: 

as many probably aready know the different hand postures that come from Pole Standing and San Ti & c:o are perfectly fine to use while sitting in meditation also.

The Double Single Star Finger i describe above is very powerful ime as a chair-sitting posture also. Standing balances everything out more so it depends on what kind of effect you want. Sitting usually boosts me.

If you guys feel that the wall of text above is a bit much i can transfer it to my PPF and just link it

[rideforever]

I bought Scott Meredith's Bare Metal Internals today.   It's not completely related but I thought I would mention it.  
He has the tiger posture from Way of Power in it, and Santi.
Although his beef is about power cultivation.
But I would begin with the de-traumatizing blockage dissolving that is my priority.

Still always nice to listen to someone who inhabits that region between insanity and genius.

[rideforever]

In LKC's first book, there are some positions where you rotate the top half 45 degrees, holding the ball to the side, and also a pose on one leg, these are good for me.   That's about my level actually.

[lifeforce]

On 30/08/2018 at 11:09 AM, Rocky Lionmouth said:

I can recommend this posture, i really like what it does for aspects of all five phases. It takes a while getting used to it and develop it, it should however be a very efficient complement to the classic Santi.

 

 

My tradition calls the form Golden Bridge iirc, the hand posture is called Single Star Finger Palm but its a classic form that exists in variations across many  styles, most probably recognize it from Hung Ga based movie kung fu. Don’t scoff, this form is VERY good, the hand form alone is strong and easy to master and can be used for striking, pushing, stabbing, shoving, gripping, but do not try to condition this hand by striking, that is the wrong approach and will cause injury. Curse you thousandfold and lightning strike your head if you use it to harm the weak or innocent. (Seriously.)

 

Apply basic Tai Chi/Sung common sense:

Build up depth of stance over time and do not fall into sitting with your knees at 90 degrees, 89 is absolute maximum. I find that many also do this stance far too wide while going too deep, this can easily cause further blockage and even injury. Be wary and give yourself time to find your strong spots.

 

Straightened small of back, slightly rounded out shoulders so that your scapulae separate, elbows down, fingers tight together (no space or stretching between index and middle finger in my lineage) and the thumb should be kept just far enough into the palm that you cant see it yourself.

The thumb side of the edge should align more or less with the outer horizontal line of your shoulders and keep everything except your index finger below shoulder line. Hands should be as relaxed as possible. Some find this hand VERY hard to form without tensing up or aching after a short time. Build slowly and massage your hands to loosen up.

 

Correct distance between hands (and angle of elbow) and chest is measured by being able to fit a fist horizontally between your ribs and the tip of your elbow on the upper arm side.

 

For comparison with the picture i teach this posture so you can see a little bit more of the lower arm from the front and the hands would be positioned not over one two palms width more apart compared to the illustration.

 

Enter this position slowly and do not tense or tighten anything you dont need to keep your form.

Hands should not be used in the classic Hung Ga ”dynamic tension” exercise, this is not what you’re doing now, i personally dont recommend that exercise at all but i’m not Hung Ga so no disrespect intended.

Stay relaxed and let structure give unmoving power forwards and outwards, no need to engage muscles to push.

Stand for as long as you can without straining or forcing, take a short break and start over. It can take years to learn this form of standing exercise properly but it does wonders for qi, sung and structural power. I only understood a fraction of its potentials a few years back, it’s one of my faves now.

 

Breathing should be relaxed and abdominal, either natural or reversed as you want. This exercise also gives great opportunity to practice 360 degree abdominal expansion, finnicky but a great exercise to avoid imbalances or blockage at the core.

 

Eyes can be closed or open (choose which you want before each practice session and stick to that) but i prefer the latter. Smile and relax your vision and focus.

If you feel heavy in your body you need to find the strength later and first of all correct your bu fa (footwork). Feet must be parallell and on one line, toes pointing ahead. Knees should never travel over the line that is between your left and right little toe.

When done correctly this posture more or less supports itself.

 

Thats a fairly detailed overview.

 

Start out slowly and increase your sitting time slowly, keep your pace of increase slightly slower than you feel you can deal with: don’t waste energy but rather invest it cautiously.

 

Entering the form: stand at attention with fists knuckle down outside of your hip bones, left foot moves out and plants on ground. While you transfer your bodyweight evenly across both feet arms start moving upwards in a circular motion. You describe two overlapping semicircles in front of you, underarms crossed and palms upward.

As you go deeper and your hands start to come close to the height of where your collarbones meet near the conception channel you turn your palms out from facing you and move them to the illustrated position. Power is concentrated at your palms so called knife edge.

 

Exiting the form:

Double vertical backfists (similar to how some Wing Chun branches ”define the center”) while you first transfer body weight to your right side and then step back to attention. No falling into position or leaning out of it, carefully control your body weight and its direction always.

 

PM any questions.

 

I tried this posture this morning, it's very demanding, even in the slightly higher position than a regular horse stance. I managed just over a minute. It generates a lot of heat. I can imagine this could be a very healing posture as well as it's obvious martial application.

This is a classical Hung Gar stance I believe. Gauntlets and rings are usually added to the forearms in more advanced training.

Thanks for this. It has inspired me to add this to my training regime.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

On 2018-09-01 at 12:31 PM, lifeforce said:

 

I tried this posture this morning, it's very demanding, even in the slightly higher position than a regular horse stance. I managed just over a minute. It generates a lot of heat. I can imagine this could be a very healing posture as well as it's obvious martial application.

This is a classical Hung Gar stance I believe. Gauntlets and rings are usually added to the forearms in more advanced training.

Thanks for this. It has inspired me to add this to my training regime.

 

Nice one! Glad you liked it.

Yup, it’s pretty demanding at first, even just one minute can be really intense.

Recommendations: make sure to be relaxed as much as possible and do not strain your breathing or tense your core. If your legs start to burn quickly and you still get training fatigue after a few months then you’re using far too much muscles in comparison to structure. Like i wrote, done correctly it should support itself and you’ll feel the difference.

 

Heat is common in the beginning and it is definetly good for healing as it builds clarity and also gives a nice boost to the system.

 

Many southern shaolin derivative styles have this form, especially if they have an 5 animal system, i think this form especially has deep roots. Hung Ga is the most famously recognizeable, but not the only. From whmuchat i’ve seen of Hung Kuen study of this their focus is very different from how i see it and teach it, if you look past the form itself and consider details and power for instance.

 

Adding rings for weight or stuff like that is possible of course but i would not teach it that way. I consider the rings both a weapon and training tool and static weight ecercises with them dont really do much but build stiffness in themselves imo, but if you study a full ring form then doing the Golden Bridge with them will be a piece of cake. Rings are for studying power, acceleration, core structure, timing, economy of force and ”marrow massage” (they hurt pretty bad at first but your arms become VERY strong without loss of sensitivity or range of motion).

 

Please be sure to follow my instructions regarding the angles and other details, keep the elbows bent always, feet parallell and back straight in that sung manner. Go slower than you feel is your max limit while developing the basics of this form as injury is easiest to get from overstraining or using too much power. Remember that my instructions here treat this form as a zan zhuang type of exercise.

[lifeforce]

14 minutes ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

 

Nice one! Glad you liked it.

Yup, it’s pretty demanding at first, even just one minute can be really intense.

Recommendations: make sure to be relaxed as much as possible and do not strain your breathing or tense your core. If your legs start to burn quickly and you still get training fatigue after a few months then you’re using far too much muscles in comparison to structure. Like i wrote, done correctly it should support itself and you’ll feel the difference.

 

Heat is common in the beginning and it is definetly good for healing as it builds clarity and also gives a nice boost to the system.

 

Many southern shaolin derivative styles have this form, especially if they have an 5 animal system, i think this form especially has deep roots. Hung Ga is the most famously recognizeable, but not the only. From whmuchat i’ve seen of Hung Kuen study of this their focus is very different from how i see it and teach it, if you look past the form itself and consider details and power for instance.

 

Adding rings for weight or stuff like that is possible of course but i would not teach it that way. I consider the rings both a weapon and training tool and static weight ecercises with them dont really do much but build stiffness in themselves imo, but if you study a full ring form then doing the Golden Bridge with them will be a piece of cake. Rings are for studying power, acceleration, core structure, timing, economy of force and ”marrow massage” (they hurt pretty bad at first but your arms become VERY strong without loss of sensitivity or range of motion).

 

Please be sure to follow my instructions regarding the angles and other details, keep the elbows bent always, feet parallell and back straight in that sung manner. Go slower than you feel is your max limit while developing the basics of this form as injury is easiest to get from overstraining or using too much power. Remember that my instructions here treat this form as a zan zhuang type of exercise.

 

Thank you. Your advice is much appreciated.

[Mudfoot]

On 2018-08-27 at 10:37 AM, rideforever said:

 

Ideally I would like to find 4 other postures of similar spiral / strong nature, that work on the other organs, to make a set.

 

On 2018-08-27 at 10:37 AM, rideforever said:

 

Perhaps someone can help me with specific information ?

Like the other four basic methods from Xing Yi? That together sometimes are called the five elements? 

Gaaaah, we might be up to something here.. 😁 

[rideforever]

54 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

Like the other four basic methods from Xing Yi? That together sometimes are called the five elements? 

Gaaaah, we might be up to something here.. 😁 

 

I was going to say ... don't all the methods arise from the Santi stance ?
But then I saw this image :

I don't really know what this image is of, perhaps it is 5 basic standing postures, I am not sure.  Not really looking to learn XingYi though.  Perhaps someone can help ?  

Are there 5 basic Xing Yi standing postures ?   And where I can I find documentation on them, I am not sure this picture is going to be enough to practice from.

 

Also

Still not sure I can use this postures without guidance, I have guidance only for Santi.

 

 

 

 

In this video a man is doing Xing Yi Zhuang Gong, perhaps it indicates that Xing Yi people do not do standing in 5 postures because they are moving postures and standing in them is meaningless (and that I should look more into Yiquan) :
 

 

 

 

This is good includes some postures from LamKamChuen, the Archer and Massaging the Tiger :
 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by rideforever

[lifeforce]

Look into the works of Scott Meredith. His work on qi cultivation derived from the internal arts is very good.

Aside from his many books, he has lots of videos on YouTube.

[KuroShiro]

8 hours ago, lifeforce said:

Look into the works of Scott Meredith. His work on qi cultivation derived from the internal arts is very good.

Aside from his many books, he has lots of videos on YouTube.

 

I've come across his books on amazon, do you know who was his teacher(s)?

[Vajra Fist]

An old Chinese guy when he was a teenager living in Taiwan, as far as xingyi is concerned. His book 'radical xingyi energetics' has lots of interesting exercises to cultivate qi. I haven't tried them though as they seem fairly time consuming as an adjunct to other practices

Edited October 1, 2018 by Vajra Fist

[beingnature]

Maybe also look up unicorn stance, i only experienced it during "spontaneous qigong" , so i can not say how to do it but it was one of the most interesting positions " i was moved into" it feels like the weight transfers from one leg to the other when you are sung enough.

 

To Rocky Lionmouth: I think i also experienced the posture you described , i dont remember exactly, maybe it was with sword fingers ... but it was quite more demanding then hugging the tree in a deep position which i was eaysily able to some years ago in a very deep stance for half an hour.I find that very interesting.I once read somewhere that at some point in "training" its more about how intense you stand then how long , i think i am at a point where i am getting this.

[Wu Ming Jen]

This is white rhino, white = metal = lungs exercise. Wudang 5 element or 5 animal chi gung is related to the 5 major organs of the body and is very effective. 

 

This is part is of a special set that contains lift the moon, snake creeps down to follow the wind, hungry tiger vibrates the forest looking for food, monkey offers fruit to heaven and more. All movements are related to the organs as well. very powerful stuff when practiced with dedication. 

[Mudfoot]

7 hours ago, NATURE BEEING said:

Maybe also look up unicorn stance, 

Yes. If someone is looking for a strong stance with a spiral flow, the qilin stance should be on the list. 

The qilin stance has a couple of drawbacks: It is slightly difficult, and the "sweet spot" where things really happens is tighter than in most stances in my tradition. 

[wenwu]

I have never heard of santi focusing on the lungs

 

Pi quan focuses on the lungs but not santi

 

As long as you balance your practice left and right there is no imbalance