That which awakens, is already awake - An experiment

[dwai]

That which Awakens is always awake, always there.

 

I attended a 3 day retreat on The Mandukya Upanishad, which shows us the nonduality inherent in our everyday experience, right here and right now, by pointing to something that underlies our everyday experiences of waking, dreaming and deep sleep.  

 

To try an exercise as an experiment (I've seen Papaji do this and it worked for me), for anyone who wants to try ie. --

 

Try and see who you are, in a fraction of a second, without thinking.  Don't try to guess what the answer will be, but in YOUR EXPERIENCE, see who you are, without thinking. What do you get? 

 

More to follow afterwards.

 

[dwai]

What? No takers?

[Cheshire Cat]

Tried it. 

I feel like I'm someone who experiences stuff 

[ilumairen]

28 minutes ago, dwai said:

What? No takers?

 

It's the in a fraction of a second part that matters. (ime)

[dwai]

15 minutes ago, Cheshire Cat said:

Tried it. 

I feel like I'm someone who experiences stuff 

Care to elaborate on that? What did you get in terms of your identity? 

[s1va]

 

3 hours ago, dwai said:

 

That which Awakens is always awake, always there

 

 

Agreed, this seems to be the case.  But does the fact that everyone is in awakened state truly help or serve any purpose?  The following words of Abhinavagupta is what I recall these days, when I hear about being awake already or always awake.   The concious apprehension that's missing, seems to be the key, is it not?

 

Quote

Triadic Heart of Siva

 

"True, but even though it shines there, it has not truly become a conscious apprehension. Without conscious apprehension, even if a thing exists, it is as if it did not exist..."

 

[dwai]

2 minutes ago, s1va said:

 

 

Agreed, this seems to be the case.  But does the fact that everyone is in awakened state truly help or serve any purpose?  The following words of Abhinavagupta is what I recall these days, when I hear about being awake already or always awake.   The concious apprehension that's missing, seems to be the key, is it not?

 

 

Yes...it does help. One finds out where to "look"... However, the process of awakening to realize one was already awake seems to be necessary too (for most) 

 

This is a path that requires neither space nor time to travel, but yet people seem to spend years and travel far and wide to get there...

 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by dwai

[thelerner]

I get mountain, lake, sky, sun..

but that's probably residual imagery from my guided meditations. 

My mind is probably not fast enough to get to the real me. 

[Cheshire Cat]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

Care to elaborate on that? What did you get in terms of your identity? 

 

I can't find an identity in such a short interval of time. 

It's the old trick of the eye trying to observe itself. 

[dwai]

8 minutes ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

I can't find an identity in such a short interval of time. 

It's the old trick of the eye trying to observe itself. 

It would be great if we could explore why you can't find an identity in such a short time. 

[dwai]

17 minutes ago, thelerner said:

I get mountain, lake, sky, sun..

but that's probably residual imagery from my guided meditations. 

My mind is probably not fast enough to get to the real me. 

You get mountain, lake, sky, sun without thinking?

[rideforever]

Q : If we are already awakened, then why aren't we awakened ?

A : Because we are not already awakened.

 

Q : Then why does Papaji talk like this ?
A : Because he doesn't know any better.

 

Q : How can you ever become something different to what you are already ?!!!
A : Easily.   If you train to be a lawyer you develop a new part of you.   Of course it is you, but it is also a part of you that only develops if you choose to.
 

Q : How can the Upanishads be wrong ?
A : Read Astavakra.   He makes it clear that the state of awakening is rare even for monks.

 

Q : Are we not "the one Brahman" ?
A : The point of the invocation "You are The Brahman" ... is to encourage you to feel inside you for the One, and in so doing it activates and grows that part of you that would otherwise remain dormant.   This invocation is not a statement of fact, but a practice.

 

Note : Papaji learnt from Ramana over a period of several years.   Unfortunately because Papaji had family to support and no money he began giving Satsangs and charging, and Westerners turned up and it became a bit of a circus.   When you make a circus it is easy for your message to downplay the importance of years of practice and the rarity of the awakened state - it's not good for business to talk about tthat.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

2 minutes ago, dwai said:

It would be great if we could explore why you can't find an identity in such a short time. 

 

There's the Buddhist answer: there's isn't an identity. 

There's my answer: the eye can't observe itself. 

[dwai]

1 minute ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

There's the Buddhist answer: there's isn't an identity. 

There's my answer: the eye can't observe itself. 

Very nice, albeit it'd be good if you were able to narrow down a reason why you can't find the identity. What DO YOU/CAN YOU know about that which you can't identify? 

[joeblast]

assigning a timeframe to the timeless  

[Wu Ming Jen]

This is my take... yes  you have a taker....... There is something no matter if we are 4 or 104 that is always with us thru the transformations of life always present always silent it does not know age or youth like an unborn divine spirit to guide us on a journey through space,  time, the physical realm, finite and infinite, being, non being such are the transformations of life.

 

Something is always awake it never sleeps, not born or unborn, a mystery upon mystery. The weird part is what if we put this always awake part of us in charge. The self identity would get really pissed  off to lose control like that. Just hand it over to the eternal being  within  us? That makes no sense at all.

 

Personally I am nothing what so ever, a human no name, caring a skin sack full of bones and all of it dust the next minute, who am I to complain. But wait let me jump back into my skin I have a lot to complain about and a lot to disagree about. 

 

Papaji makes a great pizza and they deliver.

Ramana  is a great noodle bowl place down town. definitely check that out.

[dwai]

3 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

This is my take... yes  you have a taker....... There is something no matter if we are 4 or 104 that is always with us thru the transformations of life always present always silent it does not know age or youth like an unborn divine spirit to guide us on a journey through space,  time, the physical realm, finite and infinite, being, non being such are the transformations of life.

 

Something is always awake it never sleeps, not born or unborn, a mystery upon mystery. The weird part is what if we put this always awake part of us in charge. The self identity would get really pissed  off to lose control like that. Just hand it over to the eternal being  within  us? That makes no sense at all.

 

Personally I am nothing what so ever, a human no name, caring a skin sack full of bones and all of it dust the next minute, who am I to complain. But wait let me jump back into my skin I have a lot to complain about and a lot to disagree about. 

Wonderful!

3 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

 

Papaji makes a great pizza and they deliver.

Ramana  is a great noodle bowl place down town. definitely check that out.

 

[silent thunder]

nice one dwai.  that's potent stuff...

 

my gal says 'nothing'.  

i get blank presence.

 

not void blank.  there is presence sense, an isness or amness.  a presence due to the inquiry

but before the i thought manifests, in the fraction of a second... this is blank, empty

 

empty presence.  raw awareness.

before the i thought can kick back in

 

what is, is. 

 

wow it's potent.  how blank it is and how fast the 'i thought' comes into the picture.  i see why it requires 'fraction of a second'. 

the act of 'try to see who you are' reveals a blank presence, before the 'i thought' kicks in. 

 

without the i thought, what is? 

 

thank mate...

 

 

[rideforever]

4 hours ago, dwai said:

Try and see who you are, in a fraction of a second, without thinking.  Don't try to guess what the answer will be, but in YOUR EXPERIENCE, see who you are, without thinking. What do you get? 

 

What do you get ?
The truth is that some people will feel their bodies, some their feelings, some will be lost in the mind.
Some, a few perhaps, will feel their soul.
Others might actually activate a soul that was cultivated in a previous lifetime.
But nobody checks.
Nobody even things to check.
Everyone smiles, shakes hands, and goes home.
And tomorrow nothing at all has changed, for most.

 

[thelerner]

2 minutes ago, dwai said:

You get mountain, lake, sky, sun without thinking?

yeah, its funny and paradoxical, but I often think in imagery, yet I'm poor at visualization.

 

In a few of my meditations, particularly Rawn Clarks Archaeous, element, practice.  I 'stack' elements on myself, waist = earth, belly- water, heart is sun, head is heat/awareness.  Then as I continue to sit or stand, hopefully by a lake or pond, I try to feel those elements and there interactions within myself.

 

Lately I'm using a long Chakra meditation, where I'm establishing a red earth chakra in the perineum, a jeweled orange floating on the water as my dantien 2nd chakra, a hot jeweled lemon in my solar plex.. so I'm using similar imagery now.  Playing with it, then letting it go and feeling.  It's much better outside, where earth water air sun is real and I'm part of it. 

 

When just sitting keeps the elements in place. 

[joeblast]

in the maths, there's no time component to consciousness/awareness

[dwai]

2 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

What do you get ?
The truth is that some people will feel their bodies, some their feelings, some will be lost in the mind.
Some, a few perhaps, will feel their soul.
Others might actually activate a soul that was cultivated in a previous lifetime. 
But nobody checks.
Nobody even things to check.
Everyone smiles, shakes hands, and goes home.
And tomorrow nothing at all has changed, for most.

 

Feeling involves thought too, doesn't it? What do you get without thinking?

[Wu Ming Jen]

I was thinking way tooo much, I just orders a noddle bowl form Ramana to go.

[rideforever]

7 minutes ago, dwai said:

Feeling involves thought too, doesn't it? What do you get without thinking?

 

Without recognition, yes.

[dwai]

32 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

nice one dwai.  that's potent stuff...

 

my gal says 'nothing'.  

I'd suggest that she evaluate what she got. Is it really "nothing" or just that there's no "label" that seems to fit it?

32 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

i get blank presence.

Cool. 

32 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

 

not void blank.  there is presence sense, an isness or amness.  a presence due to the inquiry

but before the i thought manifests, in the fraction of a second... this is blank, empty

Do you get a feel for whether it is only transitory or is it always available?

32 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

 

empty presence.  raw awareness.

before the i thought can kick back in

 

what is, is. 

 

wow it's potent.  how blank it is and how fast the 'i thought' comes into the picture.  i see why it requires 'fraction of a second'. 

the act of 'try to see who you are' reveals a blank presence, before the 'i thought' kicks in. 

 

without the i thought, what is? 

Is that, what is, a thing? Can it ever be a thing? An object of inspection?

32 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

 

thank mate...

 

 

I'm just the messenger