Marblehead Posted September 2, 2018 T'ien K'aichih was having an interview with Duke Wei {{The son of Duke Huan and the younger brother of King K'ao (reigned 440 - 426 B.C.E.).}} of Chou, who said to him, "I have heard that Worthy Invoker is a student of life. What have you heard from Worthy Invoker on the subject while you have wandered about with him?" "What could I have heard from the master;" said T'ien K'aichih, "while waiting upon him in the courtyard with my broom?" "Do not be polite, Master T'ien," said Duke Wei. "I would like to hear what you have to say." K'aichih said, "I have heard my master say, 'He who is good at nurturing life is like a shepherd. If he sees one of his sheep lagging behind, he whips it forward.'" "What did he mean?" asked Duke Wei. K'aichih said, "In Lu there was a man named Solitary Leopard who dwelled among the Jiffs and drank only water. He did not vie with other people for profit. When he turned seventy, his complexion was still like that of an infant. Unfortunately, he encountered a hungry tiger {{This recalls one of the best-known stories from the Jatakas (tales of the Buddha in former incarnations).}} who killed and ate him. There was also a certain Chang Yi who would rush about to call on all the high-ranking families in their houses with hanging door curtains. When he turned forty, he developed enteric fever and died. Leopard nourished his inner being and the tiger ate his outer person. Yi nourished his outer person and sickness attacked his inner being. Both of them failed to whip their laggards forward?" Confucius said, "Do not withdraw and hide yourself away; Do not go forth and flaunt yourself. Stand stock still in the center. If a person can meet these three conditions, His fame will certainly be absolute." As for the dangers of the road, where one person in ten is likely to be murdered, fathers will warn their sons and brothers will warn their brothers that they should venture forth only with a large group of armed retainers. Isn't this sensible? But there are dangers that men are exposed to on their sleeping-mats and while they are eating and drinking, yet no one knows enough to warn them. That is a mistake! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wandelaar Posted September 2, 2018 54 minutes ago, Marblehead said: That is a mistake! I thought I understood what he meant, until the last sentence! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 2, 2018 8 hours ago, wandelaar said: I thought I understood what he meant, until the last sentence! The mistake would be not being concerned for the security of yourself and your affairs while eating and drinking. In other words, awareness, 24/7. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted September 3, 2018 Telling people they need to live in fear, when they are safe and fed,, when none can point out the threat,, would be a disservice indeed. Conf still doesnt get the message. Never leave your home without an armed escort? This is wise to Conf.. then he fears for his body and betrays his freedom . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 3, 2018 I won't disagree but I still prefer looking at this from the perspective of awareness as opposed to fear. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted September 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Marblehead said: I won't disagree but I still prefer looking at this from the perspective of awareness as opposed to fear. Theres no reason to assume that the subject discussed Must be fear , it just seems to me to be the subject Conf thought it was. Im ok with the awareness of self as being the thing wisely attended. But Conf was not the sage in Chuangs eyes ,and so the view of Conf as deliverer of Chuangs message is contraindicated. .. the sage is interested in fame now? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 4, 2018 Yeah, you have picked up on the rebuttal of Confucian thought than I have. I'm sure your perspective could be well supported. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Marblehead said: Yeah, you have picked up on the rebuttal of Confucian thought than I have. I'm sure your perspective could be well supported. That Chuang uses Conf as a foil , is established enough for me that , wherever he appears , I think one should look close for the erroneous aspect.. Conf had the conventional mindset , he wants the fame , he wants fortune and so forth, Chuang prefers to get by living a peaceful life of status quo harmony etc dragging his tail through the mud. Conf instead for ex. , tells his students to go looking for conflict, so as to make a mark For being the settler of conflict,, this is already established in other chapters, and in this one, it is held out as a carrot to induce the behavior of his followers ( so I figure this drive is motivational to him as well ) . Chuang would ask, "Why the hell would I want fame and the headaches it brings with it? I would be inspiring others to jealousy , people would think I am egotistical, and a phony , doing this crap for the money! " From there, we see that Conf is concerned with the trappings of being a sage , fears for his physical body , and thinks that this is at the heart of wisdom , fearing even when he lays his head down to sleep. Edited September 4, 2018 by Stosh 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 4, 2018 Yep. No argument. Confucius travel Chna trying to sell his philosophy; Chuang Tzu sat on the river bank fishing. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted September 4, 2018 On 9/2/2018 at 4:03 PM, Marblehead said: Worthy Invoker more like kidney invoker 祝pray 肾kidney Jake: Who is this "Vod Kanockers" - Quotes.net Jake: Who is this "Vod Kanockers" that you speak of? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
