Late to the Daoism party, but I'm here

[Conan]

Greetings to the forum

 

I’ve been reading some TDB threads here ever since I discovered some books relating to Daoism. Before that I had no idea what Daoism is, other than the somewhat misleading ancestor and spirit worship connotations I picked up here and there as I went through life. Ancestor worship is, of course, part of what is practiced to varying degrees depending on the branch of Daoism, but it can’t be stereotyped as an indispensable part of Daoism. And even if it were more indispensable, my rejection of anything linked to ancestor veneration said more about me, than about Daoism.

 

To someone whose mind was somewhere in between science and lingering biblical indoctrination, anything with pagan connotations would end up in the mental category of ‘things I shall remain suspicious to from now on’. I only learned very slowly over the last ten years that it was safe to let go of my biases against spiritual traditions. I had already shed most of my biblical beliefs, but I still wasn’t ready to let go of indoctrination in the department of “you just don’t dabble with the supernatural”. These beliefs had penetrated very deeply in the core of my identity, whereas other beliefs (e.g. the lacking historicity of parts of the bible) were easy to correct. So, I’m glad to say I’ve finally been able to shed this last(?) bastion of childhood indoctrination. Not necessarily in order to dabble head-first into certain practices myself, but to allow myself to do research and to recognize truth, regardless of the tradition it comes from.

 

I’m still careful and suspicious, but it’s a healthy level of suspicion. The way I see it, the supernatural is part of nature (despite its name), being neither good nor bad. For instance, prayers, the placebo effect and visualizations (e.g. as used by athletes and hypnotists), use the same mechanism through which some forms of bad luck work (e.g. self-fulfilling prophesies or ‘curses’). In my view, nothing in nature is inherently good or bad, let alone “off-limits”. We’re already working with these forces without even knowing it. Everyone has had experiences with synchronicity, whether you're skeptic, see it as evil or don't know anything about it. So, to me, anything supernatural is comparable to other forces of nature (e.g. nuclear power, EMP energy) in the sense that the meaning changes depending on prior intentions, ethics and commitments. Where there is great power, there must be great responsibility.

 

Anyway, that was a little about me and my growth. I hope I’m not too late on this forum. Some forums have their best days behind them and the most productive members are no longer posting. I hope I’ll be able to make some contributions as well. 

[Fa Xin]

Hello, Conan, and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Fa Xin and the TDB team

 

Welcome Conan,

 

I was raised with the same sort of upbringing, and getting free of those conditioned responses is extremely liberating.  I think your on the right path, for sure.  Glad your opening up to the beauty of other traditions. Enjoy the forum.

 

You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Fa Xin

[sustainablefarm86]

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Edited July 23, 2022 by King Jade

[Marblehead]

6 hours ago, King Jade said:

leave the exceptions aside, of course .

Yes, ignore people with similar understandings such as I have.  There's not many of us.

 

Hi Conan.  Welcome.

 

I think the Dao Bums can be proud of the fact that we are almost totally without censorship.  Everyone gets the chance to express their understandings and opinions as long as we comply with the few rules we do have.

 

Enjoy your time here.

 

[Conan]

On 9/5/2018 at 4:28 AM, Fa Xin said:

Welcome Conan,

 

I was raised with the same sort of upbringing, and getting free of those conditioned responses is extremely liberating.  I think your on the right path, for sure.  Glad your opening up to the beauty of other traditions. Enjoy the forum.

 

You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Fa Xin

 

That’s good to know there are others here with my type of background. It’s good to be among like-minded people. IRL I’m used to keeping this stuff to myself and I do research strictly by myself. So it’s satisfying to be among people who are closest to my journey right now (which I consider Daoist self-cultivation to be). 

[Fa Xin]

6 minutes ago, Conan said:

 

That’s good to know there are others here with my type of background. It’s good to be among like-minded people. IRL I’m used to keeping this stuff to myself and I do research strictly by myself. So it’s satisfying to be among people who are closest to my journey right now (which I consider Daoist self-cultivation to be). 

 

Great to hear. It is good to be around people of a like mind. In my view, the New Testament points to the same truth that the Dao de Ching points to... its just that some “religions/groups” have misinterpreted the teachings. 

 

I rejected the Catholic stuff at a young age, despite being raised in it, because in my heart I knew it was bogus (for me). Dived deep into Buddhism and Taoism for years...and only recently come full circle to see the true side of Jesus. It’s good to step out of tradition and explore our own hearts. 

[Conan]

On 9/5/2018 at 5:53 AM, King Jade said:

Hi Conan

 

 

In the internet and for one of my christian acquaitances it seems like religions are only about which name to worship  

the buddhists? they worship the buddha, the daoists? they worship the dao! leave the exceptions aside, of course .
I believe, from reading here, not from practice , that in reality it's more mutual work and respect than venerating and worshipping. And besides that, meditators here in the thedaobums say time is an illusion so that must only mean I'm already complete with the Ultimate Dao and anyone who wants to be overly demanding can screw right off,  I trust the bums but in real life results may vary  , I'll come back to haunt those pesky liars, should anything go wrong

 

Yes, there is also the issue that these practices can’t really all be lumped together as worship or veneration. Asking for and giving assistance is not the same thing as deification. Unfortunately people from my family’s religious background, at least, don’t see this as a meaningful distinction. It’s all bad in their view.

 

I happen to be reading about this time aspect right now. Apparently some who do regression work are able to contact incarnations of their subjects from other times. These other incarnations then speak through the 'current incarnation' (although current, as you point out, may be a misleading word). So it's apparently possible for multiple incarnations to converge and share information through a middle man who knows how to set this up. This relates to the observation of many traditions that the past and future are not necessarily 'closed' and 'unopened' chapters respectively.

[Marblehead]

32 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

… explore our own hearts. 

I just wanted to amplify this.

 

[Conan]

41 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Great to hear. It is good to be around people of a like mind. In my view, the New Testament points to the same truth that the Dao de Ching points to... its just that some “religions/groups” have misinterpreted the teachings. 

 

I rejected the Catholic stuff at a young age, despite being raised in it, because in my heart I knew it was bogus (for me). Dived deep into Buddhism and Taoism for years...and only recently come full circle to see the true side of Jesus. It’s good to step out of tradition and explore our own hearts. 

 

I had some thoughts recently about the bible’s etiology of Jesus’s abilities after reading about some talented extremely talented psychics and meditators. Jesus' miracles seemed indistinguishable from what these people were/are capable of. Some scholars have noticed similarities between Jesus' teachings and some Asian religious traditions. So it occurred to me that Jesus may have been a cultivation practitioner of some kind during the first 30 years of his life (which are largely undocumented). 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Conan

[SirYuri]

Welcome

[Fa Xin]

12 hours ago, Conan said:

 

I had some thoughts recently about the bible’s etiology of Jesus’s abilities after reading about some talented extremely talented psychics and meditators. Jesus' miracles seemed indistinguishable from what these people were/are capable of. Some scholars have noticed similarities between Jesus' teachings and some Asian religious traditions. So it occurred to me that Jesus may have been a cultivation practitioner of some kind during the first 30 years of his life (which are largely undocumented). 

 

Have you read the Gospel of Thomas? That’s one of my favorite writings attributed to Jesus. We did a verse by verse dissection of it here at the forums, you may be interested in reading. I think you’ll find many of our interpretations read as if we are examining the DDJ or some Sutra 😊

 

 

[Conan]

23 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Have you read the Gospel of Thomas? That’s one of my favorite writings attributed to Jesus. We did a verse by verse dissection of it here at the forums, you may be interested in reading. I think you’ll find many of our interpretations read as if we are examining the DDJ or some Sutra 😊

 

 

Thanks. I will see if I can find a good book that deciphers this text for lay people like me. I’m afraid I’m too ‘left-brained’ to get much out of such cryptic texts on my own. 

 

One book I’m reading now (conversations with Nostradamus) mentions the gospels and it predicts new ancient texts about Jesus’ life will be found in an archaeological site in southern Arabia. (The book claims Nostradamus mentioned this when a psychic connection was made through hypnotic regression work). The book claims these texts will shed light on aspects of Jesus’ life not recorded in the bible. I have not made up my mind about the claims made in this book. But if there are links between Jesus’ teachings and eastern traditions, such ‘biographical’ texts will be our best hope of finding out.

[Fa Xin]

12 minutes ago, Conan said:

 

Thanks. I will see if I can find a good book that deciphers this text for lay people like me. I’m afraid I’m too ‘left-brained’ to get much out of such cryptic texts on my own. 

 

One book I’m reading now (conversations with Nostradamus) mentions the gospels and it predicts new ancient texts about Jesus’ life will be found in an archaeological site in southern Arabia. (The book claims Nostradamus mentioned this when a psychic connection was made through hypnotic regression work). The book claims these texts will shed light on aspects of Jesus’ life not recorded in the bible. I have not made up my mind about the claims made in this book. But if there are links between Jesus’ teachings and eastern traditions, such ‘biographical’ texts will be our best hope of finding out.

 

Nostradamus has always interested me. Could he have been talking about the Nag Hammadi texts perhaps? That were discovered in the 40s?

 

Im not sure if there are any eastern links - such as the “Issa” story - that a prophet named Issa came to learn and teach in India, who some think was Jesus. I’m not too well read on that one, though I’ve dug into it a little. 

 

I meant more that Jesus was pointing to the same thing as the Eastern religions. For example - if you think of “sins” as attachments, and think of “repentance” - which actually means “turning around” - you can think of how that could be interpreted when you know about Buddhist philosophy. Turning inward, turning to “God”. There’s others, of course.  it makes you think of the Bible differently when you get out of the “Catholic Guilt” paradigm. 

 

And I would venture to say, like the Dao de jing, could be interpreted different ways depending on ones clarity. 

 

All fun stuff 😊

Edited September 8, 2018 by Fa Xin

[Conan]

On 9/8/2018 at 3:37 AM, Fa Xin said:

Nostradamus has always interested me. Could he have been talking about the Nag Hammadi texts perhaps? That were discovered in the 40s?

 

 

In the book Nostradamus relates the undiscovered texts to one of his prophesies (see the second, third and fourth lines of Century VII-14). According to the book, Nostradamus knows how our time (the time from which the psychic connection was made), relates to the time of his prophesies. So, the book says Nostradamus is aware of the scrolls that have been found in our time. The scrolls found so far are only part of the prophesy, according to the book. So hopefully, we’re in for this other treat. 

 

What are this forum’s rules for posting book excerpts? I’d like to post excerpts that discuss these texts. The book also has a session where one of Nostradamus’ students paraphrases a lost text (lost to our times, but apparently it was shown to Nostradamus’ students in secret). Supposedly, the lost text described an incident in which a young Jesus killed someone psychically (or, at least energetically, a la dim mak) but then revives the person after regretting it. 

 

On 9/8/2018 at 3:37 AM, Fa Xin said:

Im not sure if there are any eastern links - such as the “Issa” story - that a prophet named Issa came to learn and teach in India, who some think was Jesus. I’m not too well read on that one, though I’ve dug into it a little. 

 

 

Yes. There are also more recent ‘developments’ on this. One author I’ve come across made a similar claim after being introduced to Jesus by his spirit guide (during his astral travels). But there is the problem of ‘diffusion’. Two of these (the priest and the journalist who published the Issa story) used the same source texts and both reached the west. So we can’t rule out that some people who seem to confirm this story are subconsciously influenced by the same Issa texts.

 

On 9/8/2018 at 3:37 AM, Fa Xin said:

I meant more that Jesus was pointing to the same thing as the Eastern religions. For example - if you think of “sins” as attachments, and think of “repentance” - which actually means “turning around” - you can think of how that could be interpreted when you know about Buddhist philosophy. Turning inward, turning to “God”. There’s others, of course.  it makes you think of the Bible differently when you get out of the “Catholic Guilt” paradigm. 

 

And I would venture to say, like the Dao de jing, could be interpreted different ways depending on ones clarity. 

 

All fun stuff 😊

 

I see. I agree that looking for common themes in between religious traditions can lead to great insight.

[Fa Xin]

1 hour ago, Conan said:

 

In the book Nostradamus relates the undiscovered texts to one of his prophesies (see the second, third and fourth lines of Century VII-14). According to the book, Nostradamus knows how our time (the time from which the psychic connection was made), relates to the time of his prophesies. So, the book says Nostradamus is aware of the scrolls that have been found in our time. The scrolls found so far are only part of the prophesy, according to the book. So hopefully, we’re in for this other treat. 

 

What are this forum’s rules for posting book excerpts? I’d like to post excerpts that discuss these texts. The book also has a session where one of Nostradamus’ students paraphrases a lost text (lost to our times, but apparently it was shown to Nostradamus’ students in secret). Supposedly, the lost text described an incident in which a young Jesus killed someone psychically (or, at least energetically, a la dim mak) but then revives the person after regretting it. 

 

 

Yes. There are also more recent ‘developments’ on this. One author I’ve come across made a similar claim after being introduced to Jesus by his spirit guide (during his astral travels). But there is the problem of ‘diffusion’. Two of these (the priest and the journalist who published the Issa story) used the same source texts and both reached the west. So we can’t rule out that some people who seem to confirm this story are subconsciously influenced by the same Issa texts.

 

 

I see. I agree that looking for common themes in between religious traditions can lead to great insight.

 

Interesting stuff, thank you for sharing.

 

When quoting, I don't think there's any type of rules - except of course, to make sure it's quoted accurately and the source provided. I would be interested in reading the excerpts, so please let me know if/when you post them.  

 

The problem I have with the Issa story is that it assumes that the only place Jesus could have learned his "wisdom" is from other Yogis, or other traditions - or that the "East" has exclusive rights to inner mystical work.  My view is that Jesus was a "prophet" (meaning he received his teachings from "God" and not from a person), and brought forth a powerful teaching/lineage, and that most people that surrounded him (Mary Magdalene, John the Baptist, the apostles) were high level practitioners in their own right. 

[Conan]

On 9/10/2018 at 4:41 AM, Fa Xin said:

 

Interesting stuff, thank you for sharing.

 

When quoting, I don't think there's any type of rules - except of course, to make sure it's quoted accurately and the source provided. I would be interested in reading the excerpts, so please let me know if/when you post them.  

 

The problem I have with the Issa story is that it assumes that the only place Jesus could have learned his "wisdom" is from other Yogis, or other traditions - or that the "East" has exclusive rights to inner mystical work.  My view is that Jesus was a "prophet" (meaning he received his teachings from "God" and not from a person), and brought forth a powerful teaching/lineage, and that most people that surrounded him (Mary Magdalene, John the Baptist, the apostles) were high level practitioners in their own right. 

 

Yes. The texts about Jesus agree that he was born different, and that this manifested already in early childhood. From this perspective, it’s a small step to say that Jesus arrived at his teachings through his own studies and reflections.

 

I think one major thing that gets people to speculate about Jesus being taught by a foreign mentor is what some interpret as suspicious reactions by some of his contemporaries. For instance Mark 6:1-3 is often interpreted as evidence that Jesus’ ideas were regarded even then as alien in his community. It is kind of interesting that people in the crowd asked “where did he get these things”. It's not necessarily their surprise, but the phrasing. Rereading the four gospels from this perspective can make people think of seemingly unconnected things (e.g. three magi from the east who brought gifts, missing account of Jesus’ formative years) as a goldmine for a new theory. There might be something there, but I think we’re a long way from establishing it.

 

I’ll make a new thread with some book quotes centering around Century VII-14 tonight or tomorrow (assuming my current forum status doesn’t restrict me from making new threads). I will then post the link to the new thread here, to notify you.  

[Fa Xin]

4 hours ago, Conan said:

 

Yes. The texts about Jesus agree that he was born different, and that this manifested already in early childhood. From this perspective, it’s a small step to say that Jesus arrived at his teachings through his own studies and reflections.

 

I think one major thing that gets people to speculate about Jesus being taught by a foreign mentor is what some interpret as suspicious reactions by some of his contemporaries. For instance Mark 6:1-3 is often interpreted as evidence that Jesus’ ideas were regarded even then as alien in his community. It is kind of interesting that people in the crowd asked “where did he get these things”. It's not necessarily their surprise, but the phrasing. Rereading the four gospels from this perspective can make people think of seemingly unconnected things (e.g. three magi from the east who brought gifts, missing account of Jesus’ formative years) as a goldmine for a new theory. There might be something there, but I think we’re a long way from establishing it.

 

I’ll make a new thread with some book quotes centering around Century VII-14 tonight or tomorrow (assuming my current forum status doesn’t restrict me from making new threads). I will then post the link to the new thread here, to notify you.  

 

Awesome, thanks! 

 

Their reactions are interesting. From that verse, it reminds me of Luke 4:16 “no prophet is accepted in his home town”. 

 

To me, these verses speak of the conditioning of “regular” people than any reflection on the prophet themselves. Even if I reach the level of a saint, many people in my “home town” know me as Fa Xin, the snot nose kid who got caught stealing candy, how could he be a prophet? I “know his family, they are unremarkable” (son of Mary and brother of James). They hold an image of me in their minds which will be hard to break... despite changes I’ve gone thru over the years. 

 

It reminds me of a part in Autobiography of a Yogi, when Yogananda observes Yukteswar Giri with his mother, and his mother says “Don’t you try that guru stuff on me, your still my son” 😁 (paraphrased)

 

Thats how I interpret those verses, but I do understand how people can get the Theories from those verses and the missing years etc. if only we could be a fly on the wall !

Edited September 11, 2018 by Fa Xin

[Conan]

On 9/11/2018 at 12:04 PM, Fa Xin said:

 

Awesome, thanks! 

 

Their reactions are interesting. From that verse, it reminds me of Luke 4:16 “no prophet is accepted in his home town”. 

 

To me, these verses speak of the conditioning of “regular” people than any reflection on the prophet themselves. Even if I reach the level of a saint, many people in my “home town” know me as Fa Xin, the snot nose kid who got caught stealing candy, how could he be a prophet? I “know his family, they are unremarkable” (son of Mary and brother of James). They hold an image of me in their minds which will be hard to break... despite changes I’ve gone thru over the years. 

 

It reminds me of a part in Autobiography of a Yogi, when Yogananda observes Yukteswar Giri with his mother, and his mother says “Don’t you try that guru stuff on me, your still my son” 😁 (paraphrased)

 

Thats how I interpret those verses, but I do understand how people can get the Theories from those verses and the missing years etc. if only we could be a fly on the wall !

 

Good point. This conversation takes me back to my Christian days, when my only source of specialized religious information (biblical texts) was ambiguous. Even this question posed by Jesus' contemporaries can have several interpretations. 

 

I'm glad my religious research interests nowadays don't have as many 'dead ends'. The things I'm investigating now are easier to crack and understand. It can really be draining when answers to important questions are just out of reach.

[Conan]

Here is the link to the new thread, Fa Xin. 

[Fa Xin]

5 hours ago, Conan said:

Here is the link to the new thread, Fa Xin. 

Great! Thank you for sharing. Reading over it now 😊 Lots of good info!

Edited September 13, 2018 by Fa Xin