Considering Yin and Yang to be the Tao

[Bindi]

Quote

 

"One yin and one yang, constitute what is called Tao" from the Appended Remarks (Hsi-tz'u) of the I Ching - Yin and yang are regarded as two aspects of the Tao. 

 

"Chuang-tzu understood yin and yang as two cosmic, creative forces, which are the origin to everything and which accordingly are considered the father and mother of all human beings."

 

https://www.biroco.com/yijing/unity_of_yin_and_yang.pdf

 

 

Why is Tao then said to have "produced the One" in the TTC? 

 

Tao produced [sheng] the One. The One produced the two. The two produced the three. And the three produced the ten thousand things. The ten thousand things carry the yin and embrace the yang, and through the blending of the material force (ch'i) they achieve harmony. 

 

Quote

Since the same chapter speaks about yin and yang, all commentators agree that they are designated by the number two and their blending by the number three. But why is Tao said to have "produced the One"? This probably means that Tao itself makes up the One, in which case sheng denotes a mental act, as we think of the number one and apply it to Tao. The Chinese language is rich in such uses of the word sheng, which does not refer to the physical production of objects (for instance, "wu chung sheng). This is true in the first two propositions cited from Chapter 42. The above-cited verses assert that (1) everything (the ten thousand things) is produced by the blending of the two real components (ch'i), which are yin and yang; (2) everything carries in itself the same two components; and (3) the blending of the two components constitutes harmony. Since "the ten thousand things" make up the entirety of cosmic reality, the word sheng in the fourth proposition necessarily means physical production. The fifth proposition states that the "ten thousand things" contain the two components of yin-yang. Consequently, the harmonic blending of yin-yang is both causa efficiens and causa materialis of all cosmic reality.

https://www.biroco.com/yijing/unity_of_yin_and_yang.pdf

 

[Lost in Translation]

Is Tao a noun or a verb?

 

Likewise, are Yin and Yang nouns or are they adjectives?

[CityHermit!]

25 minutes ago, Bindi said:

 

Why is Tao then said to have "produced the One" in the TTC? 

 

Tao produced [sheng] the One. The One produced the two. The two produced the three. And the three produced the ten thousand things. The ten thousand things carry the yin and embrace the yang, and through the blending of the material force (ch'i) they achieve harmony. 

 

 

Many I Ching commentaries are coming from a Confucian perspective whereas TTC is Taoist. I have a lot of other reading to prioritize so I can't go through that pdf at the moment but it appears to be another commentary. Commentaries upon commentaries, or commentaries on commentaries, can be a detraction from original source material and even material source material is limited via the confines of language which is something that the TTC essentially advocated to avoid. This all seems like splitting hairs and less about Yin and Yang that different schools' interpretations of Tao itself. 

[Bindi]

24 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

Is Tao a noun or a verb?

 

Likewise, are Yin and Yang nouns or are they adjectives?

 

All nouns I believe. 

 

 

 

[Bindi]

7 minutes ago, CityHermit! said:

Many I Ching commentaries are coming from a Confucian perspective whereas TTC is Taoist. I have a lot of other reading to prioritize so I can't go through that pdf at the moment but it appears to be another commentary. Commentaries upon commentaries, or commentaries on commentaries, can be a detraction from original source material and even material source material is limited via the confines of language which is something that the TTC essentially advocated to avoid. This all seems like splitting hairs and less about Yin and Yang that different schools' interpretations of Tao itself. 

 

Is the Dao beyond Yin and Yang or another instance of Yin and Yang?

[dawei]

Realize all explanations are from yin and yang perspective, for the most part.

 

It is like a camera focus that can only show clearly the foreground or background but not the entire picture (ie: unfolding).

 

What one sees is accompanied by what one doesn't see. 

[Bindi]

1 hour ago, dawei said:

Realize all explanations are from yin and yang perspective, for the most part.

 

It is like a camera focus that can only show clearly the foreground or background but not the entire picture (ie: unfolding).

 

What one sees is accompanied by what one doesn't see. 

 

All explanations, or just for the most part? 

 

Are you saying my explanations like most are from yin/yang perspective, or all explanations are from yin/yang perspective? 

 

A camera focus is either/or,  foreground/background, but yin/yang are complementary and simultaneous when they unite. Uniting yin/yang would be to see foreground and background at the same time, and how they relate to each other as well as to other dual pairings like heaven/earth. 

 

[Marblehead]

Tao is undefinable.  Can any no-thing be a noun?  I don't think so.  That's the reason I have suggested that Tao is a verb.

 

Chi, Yin and Yang are aspects of the universe that can be defined.  Therefore they would be nouns.  (Doesn't mean we know a lot about them yet.)

 

 

 

 

 

[Apech]

9 hours ago, Bindi said:

 

Is the Dao beyond Yin and Yang or another instance of Yin and Yang?

 

Yes.

[Apech]

 

Just for info.

[Stosh]

10 hours ago, Bindi said:

 

Is the Dao beyond Yin and Yang or another instance of Yin and Yang?

What exists and what happens , get subdivided by words into parts , which are mental fabrications, tools of a sort.

Folks get caught up in the words chosen by translators , and the words of others, who tried to relate their personal understanding.

 

Yin and yang are mental subdivisions with relative value , one can say they define a vector or trend, however,, , I believe the classical Daoists noticed that the trends , had a cyclic qualities, like the stars in the heavens. Yang waning while , yin was waxing , then yin waning and yang waxing. 

 

They applied this concept to all levels of society and the natural world , to render fresh insight. 

It does not behoove one to get stuck way back at the starting line , worrying about what the words beyond ,or follow, mean.

Just go back to it at a later date when you have the context in hand, because that is more important than the choice of verbiage someone used. 

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Stosh

[Lost in Translation]

12 hours ago, Bindi said:

13 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

Is Tao a noun or a verb?

 

Likewise, are Yin and Yang nouns or are they adjectives?

 

All nouns I believe. 

 

Try this, just to see how it feels. Imagine that 'Tao' is a verb and 'Yin' and 'Yang' are actually adjectives/adverbs.

 

For example: "The sage 'Taoed' through life, now in a 'Yinly' manner then in a 'Yangly' manner - ever changing, yet always the same."

 

 

[Stosh]

Is this better?

The sage , liking a lot of Tao, gathered up all the yins and yangs .

[Jonesboy]

The Tao isn't a thing, also lot's of duality with regard to yin and yang.

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Jonesboy said:

The Tao isn't a thing, also lot's of duality with regard to yin and yang.

 

lot's of duality?

 

[Jonesboy]

5 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

lot's of duality?

 

 

The Dao, Yin and Yang as nouns, in this manner or that manner as mental aspects.

 

The Tao begot one.
One begot two.
Two begot three.
And three begot the ten thousand things.

 

Going from bottom to top they are layers of realization of being. Not emotions or cycles of things or truly nouns.

 

I can see how it can seem that way.

[rene]

Like all ideas, nouns and verbs are part of the manifest; Tao abides unboundaried with both - providing the eternal that arises naturally within the temporal.

 

Or so it seems to me.

[Apech]

2 minutes ago, rene said:

Like all ideas, nouns and verbs are part of the manifest; Tao abides unboundaried with both - providing the eternal that arises naturally within the temporal.

 

Or so it seems to me.

 

I don't usually answer with quotes so much but I was just reading this today.

[rene]

5 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

I don't usually answer with quotes so much but I was just reading this today.

 

Thanks for that Apech, lovely read and describes well that which cannot be.

 

[lifeforce]

What is the title of that book please Apech ?

[Apech]

6 minutes ago, lifeforce said:

What is the title of that book please Apech ?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Classic-Way-Virtue-Translation-Translations/dp/0231105819/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1536171225&sr=8-3&keywords=The+Classic+of+Way+and+Virtue

[Fa Xin]

The Tao a verb?

 

“ Stop taoing around...and get back to work. “

[Apech]

6 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

The Tao a verb?

 

“ Stop taoing around...and get back to work. “

 

 

A noun.

 

"Ouch you're standing on my tao!"

[Marblehead]

Just now, Apech said:

 

 

A noun.

 

"Ouch you're standing on my tao!"

Hehehe.  Good try.  

[vonkrankenhaus]

18 hours ago, Bindi said:

Why is Tao then said to have "produced the One" in the TTC?

 

Tao is the Way. The way things happen. "The way it goes" or "as things so happen".

 

And, as things so happen, the only constant is change.

 

The only way "No-thing" can Change is to become "Some-thing".

 

Any "Thing" will exhibit Polarity, or YinYang, and HAVE "Two" - two sides, an Up and a Down, inside and outside, etc.

 

Qi is just movement between the poles of these polarities.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus