Learning retention/MMOs and prostate problems/pain?!

[yangluchan]

I've been trying to "master" Male Multiple Orgams (MMOs) without ejaculation for a long while now...

 

I started out with Mantak Chias book "The Multiorgasmic Male", and did the clenching of the PC muscle. I became quite proficient, but I only ever did the manual stuff, and would go usually too far (beyond the point of no return) and then clench my PC muscles as hard as I could, resulting in holding the ejaculate back for a while until my PC muscles were exhausted, upon which point some ejaculate would drip out, or I'd pee it out later.

 

After a while I came to the conclusion that this wasn't healthy, and it wasn't really helping my premature ejaculation either, as I'd focus on getting to the "price" of orgasm, and then clench. I was really overly focused on not ejaculating.

 

For a year after that, I met a wonderful girl who helped me open up sexually (I was quite inhibited). During this time I did not practice retention (except for a few times when we'd done it more than once during a short time, and I felt it was time to not come, which wasn't a problem then, and came quite naturally). This time was no problem for me, and I also feel that since it was sex with a woman, as opposed to sex with myself, the loss of sperm wasn't as big a deal, as I perhaps gained some energy from her as well.

 

Back to being single, I've started dabbling in retention again, wanting to master MMOs before the next girl might come along... I got a hold of a great DVD, Maxwell Multiple Climax, which basically involves this:

 

- Masturbate until you are as close to the point of no return as you can, and then stop and wait for 10-30 seconds. This is said to train the body to not associate ejaculation with orgasm, and after a while you will have full body orgasms without ejaculation.

 

There are some more advanced stuff for couples too, but I'm just doing this basic thing. Does this seem like a good and healthy approach to retention and MMOs? What I like about it is that there's no forcing anything, so I get more inside by body and "listen" to the reactions. It's been called Tantra light.

 

I would definitely recommend people checking it out, if not for anything else, then the cheezy video!

 

One problem I have though is that the old PC squeeze from Chia (which I of coure also did wrong, not knocking Chia) still is programmed to trigger if I go over the top and past the point of no return. Instead of letting it go and ejaculate and learn from it, I often (almost involuntarily) clench my PC muscles and try to hold the ejaculate back. But, I'm getting better at letting go... :-)

 

I think my reason for wanting to hold back my ejaculation so bad is that my Jing is somewhat weak, so I tend to get a sore lower back and feeling drained when ejaculating (which is, no doubt, worsened by my mind focusing so much on it, so I feel these past times I've ejaculated and felt good about it has done me good).

 

However, yesterday I did my usual practice (masturbation and stopping short of ejaculation/point of no return). My prostate/PC always contracts a lot right before the point of no return, and I guess it can become a little sore with extended practice. BUT, yesterday suddenly I had some pain in what felt like my PC muscles, from the lower ab (where the bladder is), to the bottom of my penile shaft, and through the entire "inner" shaft of the penis, extending all the way back to the anus.

 

I didn't think too much of it, and went to my Taijiquan-training as usual. When I got back home, the pain had gotten much worse, and urinating was painfull as hell. It made me think of a kidney stone, but I don't think it's that...

 

I went to bed, but this morning it wasn't much better, so I went to the doctor, bringing a urine sample. They tested it and said there were no infections. The doctor didn't have time to see me today, so I got an appointment for Thursday if I don't get better.

 

The pain when urinating though seems to lessen if I try to breathe and relax my muscles, and it's really only bad at the start and the end of the urination (there seems to be some muscle, probably the PC?, opening and closing then).

 

My question though is:

 

Could this be my prostate that's swollen, or do you have another explanation? Could it be that I've pulled some muscles/ligaments? What could I do to allievate this? Would ejaculation at this point help me, or worsen it until the swelling has subsided? I've read about stuck Jing, and I guess it could be that, but it's not more than 1 1/2 weeks since I last ejaculated...

 

If my age is any concern with this, I'm 25 years old.

 

Thanks for reading through all of this, and sorry for my English (not my first language)...

[Jakara]

The first thing i'd do is to check for any sexual transmitted infections, there are extremely common diseases that are easily transferable and treatable that will cause pain during urination. But it looks like you have already checked for those, as long as the urine test is accurate enough.

 

I have also experienced prostate pain from too much retention, it was shortly after being married ;-) What i did to alleviate it was to stop all retention practice, and let whats going to happen - happen without any interference. I found that releasing every few days in this manner cured it after a week or two. I did not however experience pain in any area other than the prostate, which if i recall is typical of being 'over worked'.

 

I think the best person to answer this would be your doctor, explain the practices to them. If you have no success with conventional medicine than you might try advice from a chinese-medical practitioner. I would definitely stop the retention practice though.

[Procurator]

often (almost involuntarily) clench my PC muscles and try to hold the ejaculate back. But, I'm getting better at letting go... :-)

 

I think my reason for wanting to hold back my ejaculation so bad is that my Jing is somewhat weak, so I tend to get a sore lower back and feeling drained when ejaculating (which is, no doubt, worsened by my mind focusing so much on it, so I feel these past times I've ejaculated and felt good about it has done me good).

 

My question though is:

 

Could this be my prostate that's swollen, or do you have another explanation? Could it be that I've pulled some muscles/ligaments? What could I do to allievate this? Would ejaculation at this point help me, or worsen it until the swelling has subsided? I've read about stuck Jing, and I guess it could be that, but it's not more than 1 1/2 weeks since I last ejaculated...

 

 

you have drastically depleted your genitalia of qi that is all.

 

you have to stop jerking off, you are a big boy already.

[yangluchan]

you have drastically depleted your genitalia of qi that is all.

 

you have to stop jerking off, you are a big boy already.

 

But how could I have depleted it if I have not ejaculated much lately? Wouldn't that mean that everyone praticing retention would also deplete their genitalia of qi?

 

What do you suggest as a solution, abstaining from all sexual activity alltogether, or just stopping jerking off? It's sort of hard to practice mastering retention and MMOs if I cannot practice solo... Oh, and please note, yes, I don't claim that it's all "holy" practice, sometimes I'm a horny bastard, but if I can combine jerking off and retention practice then that seems like a sweet deal to me... But all things in moderation of course, if that's what your suggesting?

Edited February 5, 2008 by yangluchan

[Procurator]

But how could I have depleted it if I have not ejaculated much lately?

 

***you dont think you have but you did.

 

 

Wouldn't that mean that everyone praticing retention would also deplete their genitalia of qi?

 

*** most everyone, since folks dont know how to do it properly.

 

What do you suggest as a solution, abstaining from all sexual activity alltogether, or just stopping jerking off? It's sort of hard to practice mastering retention and MMOs if I cannot practice solo

 

***all sex

 

... Oh, and please note, yes, I don't claim that it's all "holy" practice, sometimes I'm a horny bastard, but if I can combine jerking off and retention practice then that seems like a sweet deal to me...

 

*** yes if you know how

 

 

But all things in moderation of course, if that's what your suggesting?

 

***no, a poison in moderation is still poison

[Pietro]

Procurator, please, try to be a bit more helpful.

 

If you know how to help do it. Just to tell a person that he has to stop all sexual activity, while not explaining how to do it, is just a way to make people feel unworthy and guilty.

[Fire Dragon]

Hello yangluchan

 

I have been training the basics from Mantak Chias universal tao since the year 2000.

 

I have never had any problems with the practise not any big one anyway. So I'm not shore if I can contribute anything to your question but I will give it a try.

 

I thing you should follow Jakaras advises to start with. Perhaps this is enough. If you still will have problems I think a wery good thing is to wiit an acupuncturist to heal any eventual blockage.

 

There is also a description of prostata massage in the book of Dr Stephen T Chang that might help if not the problem heal itself. The book title: the tao of sexology

 

Otherwise I myself don't realy like the book multi orgasmic man. In the sense that it is a bit more simplified if compared to Mantak Chias other books. It was a while I read it myself. I have done the sexual techniques Mantak Chia teaches but I have never done it for the reason to have multiple orgasms. I have had some experience that might be a litle bit of it anyway.

 

I think that what I want to recomend you to do is to buy the book "taoist secret of love cultivating male sexual energy". Go a real course in healing love with a universal tao instructor and not just practise the bit of the program that teaches multiple orgasmes.

 

If you learn the big draw the micro cosmic and some iron shirt practises and include this in your program then you won't as easily get problem.

 

I myself is for the moment in a retention practise and have not had any loss of sperm this year. It isn't giving me any discomfort at all. I have heard that if you not want to have stagnant Jing qi during the practise it good to combine the practise with doing the testicle breathing. And also good might be to do the scrotal compression which I have learned this year. Also to ad the testicle massage is a good one if you want to hinder any problems.

 

In my opinion to masturbate so eagerly to trying to get an multiple orgasm might be the thing that have created the imballance you seems to have. Learn to be more playful and respect the sexual energy as a wery strong force that could harm you as well as heal you.

 

I cant realy give you advises of how to achive an multiple beacase I cant realy myself. But it isnt anything that bother me beacase this isn't the reason why I practise the mantak chias system. But I still like the possibility to have wery strong sexual energy and to feel how it helps me in my day to day life.

 

I should also tell you that my life had been a bit different this years beacase I have had an serious illness and have been living as a celibate almost all the time since the year 2000 when I started to practise the universal tao system more seriously.

 

 

In short my advise is learn the whole system and not focus to much to have a multiple orgasm. If it happens fine if not also fine. Don't use to much force when working with the pc muscle and others in the system. It isn't the force that makes things happen it's the concentration of the mind on Jing or qi and using soft squezing of the delicate muscles and movement used. Add the safety exercises I mentioned above.

 

The point is when learning the big draw in a good way you don't need to fight so much to move the Jing from the genitals and no big forces is needed, exept perhaps just during the first moments when trying to stop the sperm to leave. Not to breath during this phase is the thing I have found the most important. Then after have been stopping the need to ejaculate, this hard fight should be ower in just a few seconds, you can go ower to soflty just move the energy with the big draw techingue away from the genitals, more or less softly and you are there. Learning this and I'm shore you are also closer to have a multiple.

 

The thing that have given me feelings of multiple orgasms is the wery soft squezing of the first gate described by Eric Steven Yudelove in his two practise books. The first gate at the end of the penis where the urin and sperm leave the body and goes out in the woman man or air. This wery soft squecings have giving me feelings of orgasmic balls rolling up through my back all the way to the head. It feels greate but I'm not shore if this is what people mean with saying multiple orgasms.

 

Good luck

 

F D

[joeblast]

Chia's book on cultivating male sexual energy has exercises/acupressure/moxa to help with these kinds of issues. But a big first and foremost is that if you've gotten to the point of pain then you need a break. No sex, masturbation, or lustful thoughts. Take a few weeks, a month off, it wont hurt you. Natural abdominal breathing should gently help.

.02, imho

[Taoist81]

But how could I have depleted it if I have not ejaculated much lately? Wouldn't that mean that everyone praticing retention would also deplete their genitalia of qi?

 

What do you suggest as a solution, abstaining from all sexual activity alltogether, or just stopping jerking off? It's sort of hard to practice mastering retention and MMOs if I cannot practice solo... Oh, and please note, yes, I don't claim that it's all "holy" practice, sometimes I'm a horny bastard, but if I can combine jerking off and retention practice then that seems like a sweet deal to me... But all things in moderation of course, if that's what your suggesting?

Be wary of Proc's advise. He may or may not have legitimate information, who knows his tradition. But, for most humans, masturbation is not a "dirty" or "childish" habit. It is natural. The Tao doesn't share Proc's aversion to it, even animals do it. You should probably check out Trunk's site though, perhaps someone else could provide the link. Or you could just find one of Trunk's posts, the link is in his signature.

[yangluchan]

Procurator: Where could one learn this true way to retention? Is it a secret practice, or are there public teachers?

 

Jakara, Pietro, Fire Dragon & joelbast: Thanks ever so much for taking the time to answer my questions! I will definitely take your advices to heart!

 

I've come to relealise that most of the pain is actually in the lower abdomen down toward the root of the penis (with some back towards my perineum/anus), so it's somewhat uncomfortable to sit. Might just be muscles though, as I actually remember having what I have now (only very much milder, only like 10%) when I had strained and ejaculated too much in my early teens... So I think it might be musclular, but I'll still go see my doctor on Thursday. Guess I'll try to explain about the sexual practice, saying it invovles Kegels and start-stop, as I'm afraid he won't take me and my problem seriously if I start dropping words like "Taoist", "retention", "jing" and "tantra"...

 

- Oh yeah, I'll try very much to abstain from any of these practices for a while, maybe it's just my private parts' way of saying "Heeeey big guy, enough is enough, it's time to chill and just let us enjoy a little peace and quiet for a while!" Hah, it sounds as if I'm some sex crazed maniac here now! But I do concur, sexual energy is a VERY powerful force... Hope my recently adopted way of trying to "befriend" it is going to work better for me than "fighting" to subdue it... Not very Taoist of me, come to think of it! Oh well, another lesson learnt!

 

Be wary of Proc's advise. He may or may not have legitimate information, who knows his tradition. But, for most humans, masturbation is not a "dirty" or "childish" habit. It is natural. The Tao doesn't share Proc's aversion to it, even animals do it. You should probably check out Trunk's site though, perhaps someone else could provide the link. Or you could just find one of Trunk's posts, the link is in his signature.

 

Yes, I grew up somewhat shameful of masturbation and even my "lustful" thoughts, so I've been through that... I'm not much for seeing it as dirty anymore, as I know that those inhibitions and self-shame I had did far more damage to me than masturbation... I'm not shameful of it anymore, but I would want to learn retention.

 

I just checked out Trunks site, a lot of good stuff there! Will read much more!

 

- BTW, Trunk recommends a vibration platform, will this help with releasing stagnant/trapped Jing?

 

- Also thinking about getting an Aneros for massaging my prostate in the future...

 

What do you think about the Maxwell Multiple Climax method I mentioned by the way? Is masturbation until right before point of no return, then stopping all stimulation and feel your body and breathing (with no forcing energy or muscles) a good way? If it can lead to me developing MMO abilities, it kind of sounds like a water method to me (even though I know it's a Western invention, not "original").

Edited February 5, 2008 by yangluchan

[Andrei]

@yangluchan

 

you just succeeded to build up in your prostate DHT which is burned testosterone and an excess of E-2 prostaglandin which gave you a prostate hyperplasia

 

I strongly advise you to check this link and understand the mechanism of sexual energy:

http://actionlove.com/extra/prostat.htm

 

I had the same problem due to the famous PC exercises and "one million dollar technique"

Here are some tips that I follow:

-I take Saw Palmetto, Zinc, Fish Oil, Borrage Oil and Tofu and Soya Milk, also Seafood (Shrimp and oyster contains omega fatty acids and Zinc)

-I do a lot of Qigong exercises which cools down the prostate area (Zhan Zhuang /Grounding meditation)

 

I use the methods described by Dr. Lin in his website, here are some excerpts:

 

 

For Male multiple orgasms without ejaculation, you has to train the muscle near the tail bone (I call it the tail-bone or coccygeal muscle), instead of the prostate muscle between the anus and scrotum, for emulation of self-contraction at a rate of 1.25 cycles per second. The coccygeal nerve and the acupuncture point GV-1 on the Governing Vessel are the bridges to couple a part of sexual energy (orgasmic waves) back to the spinal cord and the brain. Periodically contracting the tail bone muscle will generate a pleasure wave back to your brain via spinal cord to fool your brain. If you can train it to automatically contract, you are in the business. at least, It can help you delay the ejaculation orgasm.

You have congestion in your energy channel in the low abdomen from CV-5 to CV-1 of the Conception Vessel. You must massage these areas and groins around both sides of your scrotum and penis.

 

By the way, ballooning your penis to an extreme will force the blood pressure inside your penile cylinders to interfere with your sexual nerves in the penile shaft. You sexual nerves will pick up the blood pressure signal, instead of sexual stimulation. Thus, the ballooning effect will numb your penis. As long as you can use the ChiKong/Anal breathing to expand the prostate muscle and contract your tail bone muscle to couple your sexual energy back to your spinal cord, instead of the prostate nerves. You can make her come 2 or 3 times without ejaculation, and at the same time periodically contract your coccygeal nerve at the tail bone to create a pleasure signal for your brain.

 

The Key for this practice is to produce use the ballooning effect to inflate your penis to an extreme.

The cramps or pains in your pelvic cavity results from deficiency of DHEA/androstenedione/testosterone in the local tissues

 

When you exercise, you burn testosterone into DHT (DiHydroTestosterone) to grow your muscles. Similarly, exercising your prostate (PC) muscle will burn testosterone into DHT locally. DHT, the super hormone, will heat up the tissues instantaneously. A long-term DHT stimulation will help the muscle to grow bigger. This is what the body-builders do for. But, this method won't work for penile enlargement because the penis does not have the muscular tissues. On the other hand, excessive DHT in/around your prostate will over-stimulate the prostate for the temporary prostate enlargement and premature ejaculation, although it can stimulate the penis to erect for a very short period of time. A long-term PC exercise will help the prostate to trap more DHT for prostate growth and establish a somatic reflection for orgasm and ejaculation. To prolong sexual intercourse, don't train your prostate nerves for an automatic response to sexual stimulation. Load your thrusting forces or body tension on your knees, legs, shoulders and hands and contract your tailbone muscles. Let testosterone burn into DHT in the tailbone muscles to build the somatic reflexion there and to heat up the tailbone for the ultimate recycling of sexual energy back into your spinal cord and brain. Grow your tailbone muscles with DHT! why not? The tailbone nerves will automatically respond to sexual stimulation - the trick of Sexual ChiKong Intercourse!

 

 

Massaging the pubis and testicles is very important in stimulating the testicular function for the oxytocin and testosterone/DHT production to fuel your penile tissues.

Please note that the penile cellular growth is a slow process, highly depending on DHT and prostaglandins. DHT and Prostaglandin E-2 can increase the density of the capillaries and then nerves, but the prostaglandin E-1/E-3 and Nitric Oxide can keep them flexible and elastic for further stretch without stimulating collagen release or inducing pains. In fact, prostaglandin E-2 has been considered as an initiator or inductor of cellular proliferation for implantation of fertilized eggs, fetal and puberty penile/testicular growth, plaques, scars, tumors, and cancers. So, you have to think about 3 times before you mechanically or bio-chemically stimulate the prostaglandin E-2 release in your penis and testicles or other pelvic tissues where you can experience pains as a pre-warning of the inflaming nerves and blood vessels. Please keep in minds, without prostaglandin E-1 and E-3 modulation on the cellular mRNA, prostaglandin E-2 can ignite the unlimited/destructive inflammation, tumor and cancer cellular growth, particularly when excessive DHT or estrogen feeds the cells. This is why a combination of DHT and prostaglandin E-2 can grow your penis and testicles (and her clitoris and G-spot), or even worse your prostate as well as cancers or tumors too; And, a combination of estrogen and prostaglandin E-2 can increase the breast size (yours and hers), trigger women's persist sexual arousal, ignite Endometriosis (uterine cellular inflammation !), Vaginismus (penetration/intercourse pains) (spotty vaginal cellular inflammation), Vulvodynia (vulva abrasion)/vestibulitis, and Vaginosis ,and grow breast/uterine/cervix/ovarian tumors or cancers, when there is a lack of prostaglandin E-1 and E-3 release from the local tissues. That is, you will love prostaglandin E-2, and hate it too! Your relationship with prostaglandin E-2 is Love and Hate.

 

In addition to testosterone, the endocrine system must be able to secret an enzyme called 5-alpha reductase which burns testosterone into dihydrotestosterone (DHT) to produce bioelectric power to charge the parasympathetic system in supporting erection/engorgement. DHT will stimulate the sex organs (prostate, penis, clitoris, Labia Majores/Minores, G-spot, Epicenter) to inflate and drive lovemaking couples to have a hot intercourse.

DHT makes G-spot and Epicenter become very itchy, and the glans penis inflate like a rock, but enlarge the prostate for ejaculating if he does know how to channel the sexual energy. Too much DHT in the prostate must be redirected upto the Glans Penis with my Penile Power-up Method (Ballooning Effect); otherwise it causes pain in the prostate to trigger premature ejaculation.

 

Chemically, Men need testosterone and 5-alpha reductase to power the penis. To properly secret 5-alpha reductase, it requires Human Growth Hormone (HGH) and DHEA. Overloading the body with testosterone without promoting HGH and DHEA can not erect the penis. Over-secretion of 5 alpha reductase will overheat the prostate to promote ejaculation. Men need plant estrogen, zinc and Saw Palmetto to cool down and shrink the prostate.

 

 

I have realized that burning too much testosterone into DHT (dihydrotestosterone) for powering the erection can stimulate the prostate glands to enlarge. Coincidently, I has been a lover of tomato, soy products and nuts since I was a kid, eating a lot of soy and nut products, at least 8-oz a day, and tomato, one medium size, a day. I am also a green-vegetables and fresh-fruits lover although I love sea foods more than meats. It seems these products protect me very well. Recently, the so-called food/nutrition scientists have discovered my diet is anti-oxidant, anti-cancerous and anti-prostate enlarging. Junk Bond King, Mr Mike Milken, interviewed by Ms. Walter in ABC 20/20, testified that having soy products every day helped him successfully kill his prostate cancer 6 years ago, even his doctor declaimed he had only 18 months to live at that time. Boy! Mr. Milken has a beautiful young wife as I saw in the ABC 20/20 program. I am so jealous. The Intel's Chairman, Dr. Andrew Grove told the same story too (See Newsweek, November 30, 1998, page 66). His current diet is the similar to what I have had since I was a kid, except, perhaps, he has more sea foods to eat than I do.

Rich men needs the poor-men diet to retain the sexual vigor. God is always very fair to us! You have to change your diet, like I have had, to continuously enjoy sexual orgasm.

Obviously, your estrogen therapy and the prostate enlargement kill your sexual potential. You have to use the similar diet to reverse your prostate problem and keep your prostate health.

 

Dietary or supplements help: Soy products or plants estrogen, Zinc, selenium, Mg, Ca, Vitamins B6/B12/C/E, Seeds/Nuts/Grains, deep-color vegetables and fruits, herbal supplements that stimulates the endocrine functions ( particularily, the pituitary-liver-adrenal functions)

 

I was raised in a poor, mountainy countryside in central Taiwan. In those good old days, the people living standard was very low. Meats and eggs were very luxurious foods. Soybeans, nuts, and seeds were the main sources of protein for these poor people, including me. Home-grown vegetables, fruits and "tomato" were my diets. Before I came to the USA in 1976, I had soybean milk for my breakfast and varieties of tofu (dried tofu, fried tofu, smelling tofu, and so on, you name them) for my lunch and dinner everyday. In fact, people did not have red meats to eat during that time. Sea foods and seaweeds were cheaper than meats. So, sea foods and seaweeds were also popular diets.

 

Recently, nutritionists said that our "poor" good-days' diets are very healthy. They pointed out:

1. Tomato is good for men's prostate,

2. Green vegetables are cancer fighters,

3. Soybean contains plant hormones, preventing breast and prostate cancers, bone fracture, and women's hot flashes.

 

Finally, my "poor" good-old days' living standard is honored by these so-called "nutritive" scientists. But, they forgot to point out that having soybean diets can give you a better erection, more fire power and better orgasm. What I know are:

1). my bone is very, very heavy (when I was young, 18-30, I was very skinny but I was still over-weighted about 20-30 lb. Doctors told me my bone was very heavy!), and

2). My penis erection is very hard, solid and vigor, as shown below.

I don't believe that meats can make the penis to achieve such an erection. And, I always wonder how lucky I am. I didn't have a chance to eat the red meats polluted by artificial growth hormones which make kids grow faster with hollow bones and get involved in sex very young (11 year old!)! We should boycott real meats for a better sexual life and orgasm.

 

Now, my readers should jump into the same bandwagon as I rode, and eat or drink soybean products which were my "poor" good old-days' diets. It is good for your sexual life and health. Let's consider our body is a sex engine. You can gain power from eating and drinking only if you have enough DHEA naturally secreted by the adrenal glands. The ability of the adrenal glands to naturally secrete DHEA depends on the intake of plant hormones. DHEA is associated with the generation of the bio-electricity (We call it the "Kidney" Chi, the electricity for starting your car engine) that burns the nutrients & oxygen (fuel & air in your car engine) into power, including sexual power. If your system cannot produce enough DHEA, the nutrients inside your body will become fat. You will gain weight accordingly! You may realize that you experience losing your sexual strength when you starts to gain weight. Based upon the concept of the Chinese medicine system, your "Kidney" Chi (associated with the secretion of the adrenal glands sitting on the top of your kidneys) is starting to run low. Here, the "Kidney" is the functional term, not a real physical object.

 

What soybeans can do for your body are:

1). Enhance the liver function, promote the "good" cholesterol, HDL, and reduce the "bad cholesterol, LDL.

2). Increasing the "Kidney" Chi production and the DHEA secretion for improving the sexual potential and drive for both men and women -balancing the Testosterone-to-Estrogen ratio in the bloodstream, with help of Zinc;

3). Preventing cancer and tumor developments in sex organs for men and women;

4). Giving you a better weight control.

 

Do you know soy can increase your testosterone? What! All you need is Zinc! We have tested soy extract with herbal products

 

 

By the way, I think that all these tips are also for the people who want to do 100 days of celibacy without ejaculation, and for anyone who would call himself a "Taoist"

 

Have a good sex-life!

Edited February 5, 2008 by steam

[Procurator]

Procurator: Where could one learn this true way to retention? Is it a secret practice, or are there public teachers?

 

nothing secret about it. i will teach it to you in two seconds:

true way of retention is pretty much similar to true way of not be run over by a bus - dont run across the traffic and you gonna be ok.

 

Procurator, please, try to be a bit more helpful.

 

If you know how to help do it. A/ Just to tell a person that he has to stop all sexual activity, B/ while not explaining how to do it, C/ is just a way to make people feel unworthy and guilty.

sorry man. i dont follow your logic - how did you get from A to B to C? does not make sense to me.

[yangluchan]

nothing secret about it. i will teach it to you in two seconds:

true way of retention is pretty much similar to true way of not be run over by a bus - dont run across the traffic and you gonna be ok.

 

What you seem to be saying here is no sexual activity at all, full celibacy?

 

But in your previous post you seemed to hint at retention practices, since you said "yes if you know how" to me saying I felt like masturbation and practicing retention was a sweet deal?

 

@yangluchan

 

you just succeeded to build up in your prostate DHT which is burned testosterone and an excess of E-2 prostaglandin which gave you a prostate hyperplasia

 

I strongly advise you to check this link and understand the mechanism of sexual energy:

http://actionlove.com/extra/prostat.htm

 

I had the same problem due to the famous PC exercises and "one million dollar technique"

Here are some tips that I follow:

-I take Saw Palmetto, Zinc, Fish Oil, Borrage Oil and Tofu and Soya Milk, also Seafood (Shrimp and oyster contains omega fatty acids and Zinc)

-I do a lot of Qigong exercises which cools down the prostate area (Zhan Zhuang /Grounding meditation)

 

I use the methods described by Dr. Lin in his website, here are some excerpts:

By the way, I think that all these tips are also for the people who want to do 100 days of celibacy without ejaculation, and for anyone who would call himself a "Taoist"

 

Have a good sex-life!

 

Cool, I will definitely look into this! Thanks for the great advices!

 

- I've been losing some hair as well these past years, and my body hair is growing more, so DHT is definitely high in my body already... I've stayed away from Finasteride, but I thought I heard there were some side effects with Saw Palmetto as well, like smaller erections and more female features? Have you experienced any of this, or has it been all good?

 

Will start getting more back into Zhan Zhuang, I used to do it every day before...

[Procurator]

What you seem to be saying here is no sexual activity at all, full celibacy?

 

But in your previous post you seemed to hint at retention practices, since you said "yes if you know how" to me saying I felt like masturbation and practicing retention was a sweet deal?

celibacy is best for some time at least. yes there are retention practices but they will not work on its own. they are a part of an overall practice. i can not recommend anyone who teaches retention practices per se.

[yangluchan]

celibacy is best for some time at least. yes there are retention practices but they will not work on its own. they are a part of an overall practice. i can not recommend anyone who teaches retention practices per se.

 

OK, I'll try to stay celibate for some time now at least. Thanks for your help!

[neimad]

www.multiples.com

this may be interesting.

 

I've only just started playing with it with some very small but interesting results.

 

 

Mantak Chia is off his rocker.. stay away from his stuff like the plague.

[Mal]

Hah, it sounds as if I'm some sex crazed maniac here now! But I do concur, sexual energy is a VERY powerful force...

 

haha, no you just sound male and 25

 

Already references to Trunks sight and Dr Lyn's (go anal breathing ) so nothing much for me to add here.

 

Although I note you said you were "forcefull" in your contractions, which is a mistake I made with Chia too.

 

I wonder when we will get to see the Jack Johnson interview. It seem like intresting stuff but I find Dr Lyn is doing what I want for the moment.

[Pietro]

QUOTE

When you exercise, you burn testosterone into DHT (DiHydroTestosterone) to grow your muscles. ...

 

 

This is interesting, and it makes a lot of sense. I have been wandering what was the use of that DHT, that gets produced in the prostate. And now I see how doing celibacy practice while being a big-ass-internet-surfer-fat-cow can't work.

 

My only question is why all this does not get mention in a site like bodybuilding.com where they should know very well those kind of things.

 

Article:

"The Facts and Myths about: DHT"

[Trunk]

I've been trying to "master" Male Multiple Orgams (MMOs) without ejaculation for a long while now...

Probably a combination of stagnation and deficiency. The problem is that you can't well nourish the area until the stagnation is resolved; it blocks the flow of fresh blood etc. (Reference: Healing Love Dangers.)

 

Trying to save more semen just makes the tension worse (unless you are very proficient at harmonizing, which almost no one is). It's long been recognized, here, that harmonious retention is an advanced skill - and if you save what you're incapable of harmonizing then you're just storing trouble.

 

Stagnation in this area is stubborn to resolve. The magic solution, imo, is lower tan tien breathing in various positions while on a vibration platform.

 

Secondarily, the use of a crystal wand, 2-3 times a week while you are in the shower might also be helpful.

 

Diet and so forth can be helpful, but until the stagnation resolves you're in a tough spot. Unlikely that a western doctor can help you at all.

 

How long have you been attempting retention?

(Your description is like a classic case of retention-gone-wrong, btw.)

 

best of luck,

Trunk

[yangluchan]

Probably a combination of stagnation and deficiency. The problem is that you can't well nourish the area until the stagnation is resolved; it blocks the flow of fresh blood etc. (Reference: Healing Love Dangers.)

 

Trying to save more semen just makes the tension worse (unless you are very proficient at harmonizing, which almost no one is). It's long been recognized, here, that harmonious retention is an advanced skill - and if you save what you're incapable of harmonizing then you're just storing trouble.

 

Stagnation in this area is stubborn to resolve. The magic solution, imo, is lower tan tien breathing in various positions while on a vibration platform.

 

The use of a crystal wand, 2-3 times a week while you are in the shower might also be helpful.

 

Diet and so forth can be helpful, but until the stagnation resolves you're in a tough spot. Unlikely that a western doctor can help you at all.

 

How long have you been attempting retention?

(Your description is like a classic case of retention-gone-wrong, btw.)

 

best of luck,

Trunk

 

I've come to very much respect you and your wisdom Trunk, so I hope it's OK if I ask a few questions.

 

First some info. I've been attempting retention for a few years on and off I guess, but as I mentioned I usually had intrograde ejaculations for the most part before... Since starting Maxwell Multiple Climax, I've not had ejaculations at all for a few months, until some time a few weeks ago, when I went to far, and instead of the usual "Oh no, I'll have to clench my muscles to keep from coming" I just relaxed and let myself ejaculate. It felt good and I didn't feel the usual loss/shame I used to feel.

 

Just generally, do you feel this method sounds valid, to masturbate until just before the point of no return, and then stop all stimulation, breathe and wait until the excitement subsides before contiuing (Maxwell Multiple Climax in a nutshell). But I guess even this should be coupled with your advices for retention, not only Mantak Chias Healing Love practices?

 

- So, do you recommend I quit retention for now (someone mentioned waiting with sexual activity until the pain subsides, but you say saving up more may cause more problems, should I ejaculate now?)?

 

One of my problems is that I'm so damn horney sometimes, so I couldn't possibly ejaculate every day or every other day, as that would weaken me too much. I guess if I were to quit retention for a while while working on opening my lower body I could try to get more disiplined and ejaculate only once or twice a week, and abstain from masturbation the rest of the week.

 

What about celibacy, would that be bad too? I'm planning on going to a Kunlun seminar in March, and as far as I've understood, they preach 100 days of celibacy for the first period, would this be bad for me too?

 

This lower tan tien breathing you speak of, what is it exactly? I've understood it's a part of Iron Shirt 1, but as I've not practiced this, I'm not sure what it is... Is it merely breathing into my lower abdomen (buddhist breathing with abdomen out on in breath and the other way around?) while focusing on my tan tien, or something more?

 

I've contacted Soloflex about their machine, as I live in Europe, don't know if they send here, and if the machine will work here.

 

Would Zhan Zhuang be good for me now, I feel like taking it up again, as per the advice of Steam?

 

What would be your number one advice(s) for me to help loosen up this stagnation as fast as possible?

 

I thought I wasn't so extreme, and since I had abandoned the Mantak Chia Healing Love I wouldn't have the problem I've heard about and dreaded with regards to retention-gone-wrong, but apparently I have... :-( As I've said, I feel my kidney energy/jing is weak, as I feel drained when I ejaculate, but somehow I also get horny quickly again... And if I can't really abstain either, since that might build up, it's hard to know what to do... Could I ejaculate like once a week, work on opening up, and using jing replenishing herbs, to work up to retention? And do you discern between retention and pure celibacy/abstaining from any sexual activity when you say retention will only make things worse for me now?

 

Thanks for your kind help, and for taking the time, I really appreciate it!

[Andrei]

- I've been losing some hair as well these past years, and my body hair is growing more, so DHT is definitely high in my body already... I've stayed away from Finasteride, but I thought I heard there were some side effects with Saw Palmetto as well, like smaller erections and more female features? Have you experienced any of this, or has it been all good?

 

 

What I understood from Dr.Lin's info is that Saw Palmetto inhibits the DHT accumulation in prostate, which is good in short term but in long term could have secondary effects. You should take it only when you feel pain or itchiness in prostate.

 

The sexual energy mechanism is very complicated and that's why there is no 'universal panacea' for healing these kind of problems. It's a matter of balance of Yin and Yang energies and that is a very personal thing.

 

For instance Fish Oil gives you more substances for making E1/E3 prostaglandins, while Borrage Oil is for making prostaglandin E2, and both produces DHEA

 

The female feature you get when there is an excess of Estrogen and E2 prostaglandin

On the other hand you can produce more Testosterone from Estrogen in presence of Zinc.

There is another mechanism for instance if you ingest Testosterone externally, your own production decrease and in long term produces secondary effects also, which is the same mechanism if you ingest Estrogen (from soybean) your own production decrease while the Testosteron production increase.

 

So finally it's a matter of what kind of genetics you have and what kind of substances you ingest. In my opinion that is the real Alchemy, some combination of external and internal alchemy.

 

 

Here is an interesting article about Estrogen: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/planet32.htm

 

Believe it or not, your sexual and adrenal hormones have a common origin and can be made directly from cholesterol....In fact, your body needs only a small amount of cholesterol to make a master hormone - pregnenolone.

 

Pregnenolone can be catalyzed to numerous other body hormones. But what about estrogen? Hormone production can be viewed as an interconnected pyramid with some 40 different types of estrogen metabolites. Many endocrinologists maintain that some excess estrogens, like estradiol and 16-hydroxyestrone, may potentially increase a risk for cancer of the breast, cervix, uterus and prostate. They are also implicated in obesity. Too much of some estrogens may cause mood changes, hair thinning in both sexes, and feminizing problems in men. Look at the hormone cycle below.

 

In this cycle, the word "to" should be reviewed as a reversible arrow going both ways. The hormone pathway can continue to convert to the next hormone below it or next to it and as well, convert back into the prior hormone depending upon many factors including supply and need.)

 

And food? Well, even grapefruit can inhibit your liver's ability to breakdown estrogen. Broccoli and cauliflower may mitigate some effects of some estrogens. Soy products may help your liver metabolize/excrete excess estrogen.

 

Isoflavones found in soy (like genistein and diadzein) block some receptor sites where estrogen binds to cells. The effect is to prevent estrogen from accumulating in your body. Red grape skin extract (resveratrol) improves the liver P450 system and effectively removes excess estrogen. Vegetables rich in vitamin C like bell peppers and fruit reduce aromatase reductase, the major enzyme responsible for converting androstenedione and testosterone into estrogen.

 

Di-Indolin is a substance believed to be an active cruciferous substance (broccoli, cauliflower, kale) for promoting beneficial estrogen metabolism. Di-Indolin helps increase, by 75%, the "good" 2 hydroxy estrogens, which have an affinity to bind blood proteins (SHBG). The effect of this is to leave greater levels of free testosterone.

 

The mineral zinc inhibits the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone into excess estrogen. Some men, who are not meat eaters and have reduced sexual drive, may actually restore normal levels of testosterone with zinc gluconate, taken at 50 mg. BID.

 

Each mineral has a specific effect and works in balance. Manganese gluconate should be taken with zinc (tropical fruits like mangos and pineapples). Zinc is a bit of a wild card. Just recently again, zinc has been shown to mitigate the development of colds if taken at first onset. On the other hand, too much zinc can lower your HDL levels of cholesterol. That is not desirable.

 

Testosterone, estrogen, progesterone and melatonin are cyclic, going up and down throughout the day, night and month. Saliva tests for free testosterone can be performed with three samples, one in the morning, afternoon and late night. A man's testosterone level is usually highest in the morning. The levels change every 3 minutes.

 

I like to use soy phytoestrogens supplements and foods (tofu, soy milk). These block certain cell receptor sites for estradiol. This can help both men and women to reduce problems caused by having too much estrogen. Also, as you lose weight and reduce fat in your diet, your levels of bad estrogen will decline. Your body will have less fat to make more of the bad type of estrogen. It's best to take supplements of natural steroid hormones (testosterone, progesterone, estrogen, pregnenolone, DHEA) in the morning. All hormones peak at 4-5 hours after ingestion, then, within 24 hours, the levels come back down.

 

Peptide hormones such as melatonin and growth hormone are usually the opposite of testosterone in that they are highest at night and lowest in the day. It's best to take peptide hormones such as melatonin at night.

 

I don't want to say you should take all these substances, because the body already can produce them, I just want to give some explanations why the taoist way of life is the way it is:

 

-vegetarian diet with protein source from fish, seafood and soy

-physical exercises in the morning (Kung Fu, Taichi, Qigong, etc...)

-meditation at night

 

My only question is why all this does not get mention in a site like bodybuilding.com where they should know very well those kind of things.

Yes they mention here:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/vm12.htm

Of the "free" testosterone that interacts at the tissue level, much of it is converted within the cells to DHT - a more potent androgen - by the enzyme 5-alpha reductase. In the prostate, for example, this conversion is thought to be necessary for physiologic effects. Other tissues (like the epididymis, vas deferens, seminal vesicles, skeletal muscle, and bone) lack the 5-alpha reductase enzyme and therefore are thought to respond to testosterone directly.

 

The conversion of testosterone into estrogens (estriol, estrone and estradiol) is governed by the aromatase enzyme complex and occurs mainly in the liver, brain and fat tissue. Some bodybuilders attempt to avoid / reduce the conversion of testosterone to DHT or estrogens by maintaining low bodyfat and using drugs or nutritional supplements that block 5-alpha reductase and aromatase. Chrysin, saw palmetto and indole-3-carbinol are three examples of legal plant-derived supplements that may maximize testosterone levels by minimizing its conversion to DHT and estrogens.

 

As a "steroid", testosterone belongs to the androgen class of hormones that also includes dihydrotestosterone (DHT), dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), androstenedione, and androstenediol. Six other classes of steroid hormones exist, including estrogens (the bane of male bodybuilders), progestins (some female contraceptives are made of these), mineralocorticoids (which help control water balance), glucocorticoids (mainly anti-inflammatory compounds), vitamin D, and bile acids.

Edited February 7, 2008 by steam

[Trunk]

What would be your number one advice(s) for me to help loosen up this stagnation as fast as possible?

As I already mentioned: lower tan tien breathing (link) through various physical positions while on a vibration platform. In my opinion, this is by far the most effective remedy and preventative for your sort of situation. (...that is available to average-joe-qi-gong-experimenters such as ourselves.)

 

You should re-frame your qi gong pursuits to simply promote harmony within your normal sexual cycle. And work on a life-style that likewise supports harmony for your natural sexuality. Drop any "extraordinary pursuits" with your sexuality. There are times to indulge, and times to go work out instead - you know the difference, navigate your own ship. Unlikely that a male your age will feel peaceful and relaxed without sharing with a partner.

 

Most of the advice of "100 days", celibacy, retention, etc., is suited for (some) advanced practitioners. Most men it will only frustrate and, if continued too long, injure.

 

cheers,

Trunk

 

 

~ p.s. ~

I hope I didn't come off as short, here, didn't mean to be. I know you asked a lot of ?'s that I didn't answer. I just tried to be brief and to the central points, as I see them.

[alexandrov]

"As I already mentioned: lower tan tien breathing (link) through various physical positions while on a vibration platform. In my opinion, this is by far the most effective remedy and preventative for your sort of situation. (...that is available to average-joe-qi-gong-experimenters such as ourselves.)"

 

Trunk could you please show us a link where we can find what positions to use for lower tan tien breathing on a vibration platform, thanks!

[Trunk]

Trunk could you please show us a link where we can find what positions to use for lower tan tien breathing on a vibration platform, thanks!

Here's what I do: cover basic seven directions while LTT breathing:

0. standing normal

1. bent fwd

2. bent back

3. in squat (down)

4. standing up w/ slight stretch upward and hands extended above head

5. bent to left from a normal or tall stance

6. bent to right "

 

Don't strain yourself on any of the bends; they're mild. The idea is just to vary things mildly; just shifting a little here and there - it emphasizes different places in the abdomen. The above set-up is not fancy, but it covers all the basic angles. And it's easy to remember, "this way, that way, up, down, yeah, yeah I remember".

 

You could do 3-5 breaths in each position and just rotate until you feel like stopping, or hang out in one or another and explore. Whatever you're diggin'.

Edited August 5, 2008 by Trunk

[Spectrum]

Trunk is dispensing sound advice.