The world is an illusion....wtf does that mean ?

[wandelaar]

What is true about mystic states is that in those states our illusion of being isolated autonomous entities temporarily falls away. This falling away is true because we are not autonomous entities, but only small relatively insignificant parts of the universe that are biologically programmed (as a result of human evolution) to worry about their own survival. The step from the fact of this worry about ones own survival to the idea that there objectively is something special and valuable about the part of the universe that constitudes one's own person is a small one, but this step is logically and factually incorrect. Thus mystic experiences might lead to a more realistic humble attitude and a deminishing of egocentric thoughts and behaviour. But it also might leads to spiritual arrogance when one imagines oneself to be in possession of superior knowledge that is beyond the reach of mere mortals. The experience of unity with the universe might even lead to the idea that one is God and as such is completely justified to behave (and misbehave) as a God.

[Mudfoot]

7 hours ago, wandelaar said:

 

The experience of unity with the universe might even lead to the idea that one is God and as such is completely justified to behave (and misbehave) as a God.

So you balance the Jedi with the Sith. 

[thelerner]

9 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

So you balance the Jedi with the Sith. 

The Sith seem to have more fun.. not celibate either. 

 

Not perfect, they tend to blow up planets,  on the other hand after 1,000 years, the Jedi hadn't made much headway against commonsense evils like slavery.  In truth when challenged Jedi tend to head for the nearest swamp, for decades. 

[WHITEROOMENERGYMINE1]

its not actually true, go walk through more walls

[Mudfoot]

There are no walls. 

[wandelaar]

There is a sense in which one could say that the world is an illusion, but that is not the ordinary sense of "illusion" as being an error in perception. Ignoring a wall because in a certain special philosophical sense walls don't exist will only give one a headache or worse.

 

It's completely useless to discuss this subject without first studying some deep Buddhist philosophy (such as the theory of the two truths) or alternatively some decent philosophy of science.

 

Of course this advise will be ignored as it is to much trouble to follow, and thus this topic can go on forever without reaching any sort of conclusion. Better move on...

[Mudfoot]

4 hours ago, wandelaar said:

 

Better move on...

Or start with the silly jokes 😋

[wandelaar]

2 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

Or start with the silly jokes 😋

 

Unhappily I have no sense of humor...

[Mudfoot]

19 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

Unhappily I have no sense of humor...

And I don't grasp philosophy. 😴

[ilumairen]

On 3/11/2019 at 1:19 AM, Mudfoot said:

So you balance the Jedi with the Sith. 

 

Have you read the Darth Bane trilogy?

 

[Pilgrim]

“I am you Father”

 

Rule of 2

[Mudfoot]

2 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

Have you read the Darth Bane trilogy?

 

No, but the latest star wars film fits nice with the first, when they wonder if Anakin is the one that will balance the Force. And in the latest, she seems to be the first to embrace/accept her dark side while still strive for the light. 

It will be interesting to see if they develop that line of thought. 

[doc benway]

‘If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.’

~ William Blake

[Goldleaf]

Buddha was referring to the external world as illusion to inspire those interested to  seek the reality within them.

[Everything]

16 hours ago, Goldleaf said:

Buddha was referring to the external world as illusion to inspire those interested to  seek the reality within them.

The reality that exists within me is that I cannot even remember what I ate yesterday. How long ago was Buddha?

[Mudfoot]

20 hours ago, Everything said:

 How long ago was Buddha?

Always in the now. 

[manitou]

10 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

Always in the now. 

 

 

Just passing through.

 

I have to tell you, I've been hanging around this place for maybe 12 years, and I just feel like a retort this exquisite must be held up on display on its own merit as the clever thing of beauty that it was.

[Zork]

Why does this thing where happen here? Why is there this constant devaluation of the things that Buddha said?

Can you define reality? If you try to you will understand that the perception of what is real is highly subjective.

How do you know i am real and not a figment of your imagination?

Have you seen me? Do you know my name or where i live? Your eye neurons transfer information to your brain which interprets it as a being called Zork somewhere on this earth. Am i really real?

[Mudfoot]

21 minutes ago, Zork said:

 

Am i really real?

No. 

Or at least, you are not permanent and independent. 

[Zork]

4 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

No. 

Or at least, you are not permanent and independent. 

Exactly. Because noone is!

[silent thunder]

the world we perceive... is it the world as it is?

 

what is real?

 

<shrug>  time for a nap.

[manitou]

Our senses are pretty limited.  We hear/see/smell/etc within a particular range.  Just imagine all the other ranges that could just as easily be experienced.  A bat  sees in neon green, a totally different experience than ours.

 

If the atoms all decided to stop spinning, there would be absolutely nothing there.  The atom is 99.9999999% space - and I'll bet it's actually 100% space once we figure out how to view the entire atomic makeup.  I think this whole thing is nothing but Thought.  Just one big strange Idea.

[Yang]

it's an illusion 100 %  unreal . If you have to ask you won't understand even if its explained to you . 

 

We cant see the reality of the illusions , only the illusion that is covering reality . 

 

You gonna have to trust me , IT'S a full blown illusion , A hollow graphic illusion Even the solidity is an illusion. 

 

It's not meant to be revealed. It's a very convincing illusion. Solid too If it was that easy to reveal the reality its hiding , it would be a poor ilusion and have no effect. 

 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Yang
changed the word can to "cant see the reality " typo fix the word "was"

[silent thunder]

For me, it's an allusion to the notion that our experience of reality is what is generated within us, as we interpret our senses. 

 

It's a nod to the experience that our senses do not provide our local conscious ego awareness with a complete, or even very accurate depiction of reality, only a heavily interpreted aproximation.  The interpretation being formed from the ages of 0-7-ish inherited entirely from familial, societal and environmental conditioning.

 

Robert Anton Wilson describes the individual perceptual experience of reality as a Reality Tunnel.  A tunnel of perception comprised of our biases, notions of normality and sense of the familiar.  I've always resonated with that phrase for it.  Once formed the tunnel will tend to reject, attack or ignore anything that conflicts with its notions of normal, good and bad and true vs false.  Directly inversely, anything supporting one's notions and assumptions will tend to be 'championed', 'held up like a banner of truth'.

 

Each of us occupies a reality unique to our perceptual process. 

Like facets of a gem made of liquid light.

 

puts me in mind of the jewels of dew on Indra's Net...

[manitou]

3 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

 

 

Each of us occupies a reality unique to our perceptual process. 

 

 

 

This is valuable to understand.  It's not possible for any of us to see things exactly the same way, because of our perceptual process.  The sage, as I understand it,  is best not forming opinions at all.