Is this a form of the much fabled "grasping"?

[Arkx6]

So im sat by a pool on holiday. I see two beauties in bikinis. I enjoy gazing at them until i realise

 

a) im too shy to talk them, 

b )without talking to them i will never have them

 

the desire for them is denied satisfaction...i suffer.

the more i think on it...(grasping?) the more i suffer.

 

do i suffer because i want more (grasping?)

 

been reading about the 4 noble truths, the first one is just a fact that in a world where we dont allways get our way there is potential to suffer...but suffering is optional i am reminded. Pain doesnt have an opt out but suffering does.

 

So what is grasping? Wanting more than we have, in love, money etc? And it can go two ways...we get what we want or we dont...so in everything desirable there is potential to suffer?

 

is this what the first noble truth is saying? In chasing what is desirable to us there is potential to suffer because its not guaranteed that we get what we crave? And no matter how good we are we wont get what we want 100% of the time...

 

still wish i had those bikini clad babes lol

[Marblehead]

Hi Arkx6.  As this is in the Buddhist Discussions sub-forum I won't say much but I do want to say this:

 

The trick is to get beyond the lust and desire.  IMO there is nothing wrong with admiring beauty.  If you can look at a beautiful woman the same way you look at a beautiful car you will have control of the lust and desire to have it for your own.

 

Possession is an important word/concept here.

 

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

No , that was an example of NOT grasping.. which is something wise to control.  

[rex]

Seems more like the interplay of fear and desire with suffering resulting from an inability to act.

 

Say you acted and got a date with one of them but it didn't progress to a second. Grasping would be being unable to move on gracefully and pining while non-grasping would be saying 'Well that was a nice date, pity it didn't work out, I wish her well for the future'.

Edited September 11, 2018 by rex
typo

[Marblehead]

1 minute ago, rex said:

Say you acted and got a date with one of them but it didn't progress to a second.

I would then hit on the other one.

 

[wandelaar]

“In this world there are only two tragedies. One is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it. The last is much the worst; the last is a real tragedy!”

― Oscar Wilde

[Arkx6]

That was very helpful Rex, fear and desire interplaying with suffering because of the inability to act...

 

so grasping is trying to hold onto something when its natural time to leave has come?

 

Fear is another type of suffering....does the Buddha talk about the different kinds of suffering like this one?

 

ty all for your replies.

 

Wandalaar...i wonder what the consequences are of getting everything u want?

[Apech]

6 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Hi Arkx6.  As this is in the Buddhist Discussions sub-forum I won't say much but I do want to say this:

 

The trick is to get beyond the lust and desire.  IMO there is nothing wrong with admiring beauty.  If you can look at a beautiful woman the same way you look at a beautiful car you will have control of the lust and desire to have it for your own.

 

Possession is an important word/concept here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You might want to see what is under the bonnet though

[lifeforce]

It's not desire that's the problem, it's the ATTACHMENT to desire.

[wandelaar]

1 hour ago, Arkx6 said:

Wandalaar...i wonder what the consequences are of getting everything u want?

 

 

Just notice what happens when you get something you want: initially you will be happy, but after some time you will return to your usual level of happiness (or unhappiness) as you get used to your new possession and you start seeing that it brings it's own set of problems with it. So getting everything you want will sooner or later lead to the realisation that getting (everything) you want isn't the way to find happiness. What happens next will depend on whether you can still imagine and actually take steps to follow an alternative way to happiness.

 

As the sages knew the best thing is to find contentment in a simple life and in the simple things that are (relatively) easy to get.

Edited September 11, 2018 by wandelaar

[Fa Xin]

1 hour ago, lifeforce said:

It's not desire that's the problem, it's the ATTACHMENT to desire.

 

Would there even be desire if there was no attachment ? 

 

No answer is required, it’s just there to think about. 

[wandelaar]

Is it even possible to survive without attachment or desire?

 

 

[Marblehead]

2 hours ago, Apech said:

 

You might want to see what is under the bonnet though

I'm an old man.  It just doesn't matter any more.

 

[s1va]

 

I like the description of craving from the noble truths way better than seeing desires as the issue.  The craving due to the attachment  for pleasant sensation and aversion to the unpleasant.

 

Why does the mind desire the bikini clad beauties?  It is the craving to the plesant.

 

I think Buddha is right in pointing out, the key to breaking the cycle of samsara lies between the transformation of feeling to craving.

 

 

[Marblehead]

17 minutes ago, s1va said:

… lies between the transformation ...

I thought you were going to say "lies between the legs"

 

 

[rex]

17 hours ago, Arkx6 said:

so grasping is trying to hold onto something when its natural time to leave has come?

 

Fear is another type of suffering....does the Buddha talk about the different kinds of suffering like this one?

Yes that’s one form of grasping. There are other forms of grasping too. Then there’s the big one, grasping at a sense of self.

 

There are three types of suffering, though fear and other mental states that can lead to suffering are called kleshas.

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by rex
typo

[s1va]

49 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Is it even possible to survive without attachment or desire?

 

 

 

The question should be other way around.  Is it even possible to survive with attachment or desire?

[wandelaar]

5 minutes ago, s1va said:

The question should be other way around.  Is it even possible to survive with attachment or desire?

 

Clearly most if not all people survive with attachment or desire - not for all eternity, but attachment or desire don't kill us either. So my answer to your question is: yes!

 

Now please answer my question. How long do you think one could survive if one didn't care about what would happen to oneself or anything else (that is: no attachments and desires)?

[Arkx6]

So....its the interaction of something that is Dukkha and the mind that causes suffering...if the mind was "free" it would not react to dukkha with suffering.

 

i see so many bs buddhist sources saying things like:" dukkha =  It refers to the fundamental unsatisfactoriness and painfulness of mundane life"...which paints life in quite a negative way which i disagree with 100%. Life contains the seeds of disatisfaction but its in the mind that these seeds germinate and grow. In fact painting life in such a negative way is bound to create dukkha in the minds of those who take this negative view of life to heart.

 

its fair to say that life can be pretty great and its the mind that causes disatisfaction and the "painfulness of mundane life". 

[rex]

11 hours ago, Arkx6 said:

In fact painting life in such a negative way is bound to create dukkha in the minds of those who take this negative view of life to heart.

For sure there is much pleasure, happiness and joy in life, this is acknowledged. What is being counselled is not basing one's happiness on things that are impermanent and to find a wisdom and consequent stability that is unaffected by decay, dissolution, old age and death.

 

Buddha and his followers took  dukkha to heart and they were far from being pessimistic and beaten down. If accounts of early Indian Buddhism are to be believed they exuded, vitality, sexuality and enthusiasm.

[Arkx6]

3 hours ago, rex said:

For sure there is much pleasure, happiness and joy in life, this is acknowledged. What is being counselled is not basing one's happiness on things that are impermanent and to find a wisdom and consequent stability that is unaffected by decay, dissolution, old age and death.

 

Buddha and his followers took  dukkha to heart and they were far from being pessimistic and beaten down. If accounts of early Indian Buddhism are to be believed they exuded, vitality, sexuality and enthusiasm.

 

Dear Rex, i did not say that taking and understanding Dukkha to heart meant one would would bempessimistic and beaten down. I meant to say that some buddhist sources paint life a lot more negatively than i believe the buddha would of. Life can be beautiful but it can also be tragic, learning to embrace life and find never ending joy inside is what Dukkha is about i believe. Not embracing life is not the way...i feel some buddhist sources stigmatise life more than it should and lead to people not embracing the beauty of the world. 

 

I think understanding dukkha leads to happiness and joy...some buddhist sources dont show life as it is. Im saying they dont capture the sublety of understanding dukkha in life.

[Fa Xin]

On 9/11/2018 at 4:31 PM, wandelaar said:

 

Clearly most if not all people survive with attachment or desire - not for all eternity, but attachment or desire don't kill us either. So my answer to your question is: yes!

 

Now please answer my question. How long do you think one could survive if one didn't care about what would happen to oneself or anything else (that is: no attachments and desires)?

 

Im thinking if someone got to that point, the Dao would take care of them.

[Marblehead]

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Im thinking if someone got to that point, the Dao would take care of them.

I love your faith.

 

[Fa Xin]

I feel like to say we won’t survive without desires is the ego justifying its existence. 

 

Of course well survive. Unless you feel eating is a desire...that’s more of a need. But you can sit in a cave for 60 years and survive. 

 

Then again. There’s many people who sit in caves for years and never master their attachments. I suppose that’s why they’re in the cave to begin with. 😊

Edited September 13, 2018 by Fa Xin

[Fa Xin]

Needing to eat... not a desire. 

 

Needing to eat a cheese pizza with a coke ... a desire