Is this a form of the much fabled "grasping"?

[Stosh]

10 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

Needing to eat... not a desire. 

 

Needing to eat a cheese pizza with a coke ... a desire

Eating, is only a need borne of the desire to continue functioning, so its still a desire.

There is no 'need' to have you or I persist,

in fact , we all die in the end, and so , if there is a need ,

it is for us to die at some point. 

[Fa Xin]

4 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Eating, is only a need borne of the desire to continue functioning, so its still a desire.

There is no 'need' to have you or I persist,

in fact , we all die in the end, and so , if there is a need ,

it is for us to die at some point. 

Interesting view 😊

[s1va]

6 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Eating, is only a need borne of the desire to continue functioning, so its still a desire.

There is no 'need' to have you or I persist,

in fact , we all die in the end, and so , if there is a need ,

it is for us to die at some point. 

 

That sounds a bit extreme and deviating from the middle path that Buddha taught.  It is important to live to attain Nirvana.

 

I can agree that eating is borne of desire to continue.  But such desires by themselves are harmless, unless they become obsessive and turn into craving.  This part is my view.

[Stosh]

Just now, Fa Xin said:

Interesting view 😊

Yeah, its a spin on perspective. It invalidates certain excuses for what I see as self serving exemptions , and brings up some difficult issues , ... if you agree with its validity. 

[Fa Xin]

I suppose it brings up the difference between desire and attachment. When a certain desire(s) become destructive in nature (and could be considered attachments). 

 

Maybe I’m attached to eating then?

 

siva has a good point about the middle way. Buddha tried the ascetic path...

Edited September 13, 2018 by Fa Xin

[Stosh]

Just now, s1va said:

 

That sounds a bit extreme and deviating from the middle path that Buddha taught.  It is important to live to attain Nirvana.

 

I can agree that eating is borne of desire to continue.  But such desires by themselves are harmless, unless they become obsessive and turn into craving.  This part is my view.

If we are all , ultimately , of a universal hive-type awareness,, and its our state as individuals is the thing suspect,, then if Gautama did achieve Nirvana , we all did anyway.

Similarly , In Christianity , Jesus dies to rectify things for all our sins , and so all are to share in the grace he earned for us. 

[Stosh]

Just now, Fa Xin said:

I suppose it brings up the difference between desire and attachment. When a certain desire(s) become destructive in nature (and could be considered attachments). 

 

Maybe I’m attached to eating then?

As reluctant as I am to serve judgement on that , it seems a correct conclusion to me. 

[Fa Xin]

Thanks for the fun convo ! 

[s1va]

2 hours ago, Stosh said:

If we are all , ultimately , of a universal hive-type awareness,, and its our state as individuals is the thing suspect,, then if Gautama did achieve Nirvana , we all did anyway.

Similarly , In Christianity , Jesus dies to rectify things for all our sins , and so all are to share in the grace he earned for us. 

 

Perhaps we all are in that state already.  But what is missing is the concious apprehension.  Does it matter that we achieved the state, if we don't apprehend it conciously?

 

Following are the words of Kashmir Shaivism master Abhinavagupta.  Apologize for quoting this here in the Buddhist section.  But it states what I want to convey really well.

 

Quote

"True, but even though it shines there, it has not truly become a conscious apprehension. Without conscious apprehension, even if a thing exists, it is as if it did not exist..."

 

[Stosh]

18 minutes ago, s1va said:

 

Perhaps we all are in that state already.  But what is missing is the concious apprehension.  Does it matter that we achieved the state, if we don't apprehend it conciously?

 

Following are the words of Kashmir Shaivism master Abhinavagupta.  Apologize for quoting this here in the Buddhist section.  But it states what I want to convey really well.

 

 

I was addressing whether NEED exists for humans to try to get to nirvana , and feel that there would be no 'need' that was unsatisfied , if it has been done ..on all of our behalf.

That a person may still desire to apprehend that state is still an individual decision, but I have read it said that this desire in itself can be understood as an impediment to 'getting there'. 

If a tree falls in the forest , and I am not there to hear it , it still becomes food for fungus.

So ,  I, the individual ,Stosh,

am not so important that the universe depends on me,

it will still keep going on , when I am gone.

So I am under no burden of responsibility that I need to keep living to satisfy the universe

as human witness. You or I, are- am free to choose. 

If eating itself is rooted in desire , so is the decision not to eat , rooted in desire (with an aim at nirvana).

So one may eat, or not eat , as they choose,  it fails no requirement either way,

and so

one may follow a wise middle path, of just eating ... enough,

,,rather than get wrapped up in short sighted indulgences, etc. 

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Stosh

[rex]

On 12/09/2018 at 2:17 PM, Arkx6 said:

 

Dear Rex, i did not say that taking and understanding Dukkha to heart meant one would would bempessimistic and beaten down. I meant to say that some buddhist sources paint life a lot more negatively than i believe the buddha would of. Life can be beautiful but it can also be tragic, learning to embrace life and find never ending joy inside is what Dukkha is about i believe. Not embracing life is not the way...i feel some buddhist sources stigmatise life more than it should and lead to people not embracing the beauty of the world. 

 

I think understanding dukkha leads to happiness and joy...some buddhist sources dont show life as it is. Im saying they dont capture the sublety of understanding dukkha in life.

The pessimistic and beaten down bit was my creative interpretation of your bit about dukkha resulting from taking the negative view of  dukkha to heart.

 

Buddhist sources are heavy on pleasure for its own sake, and as an end in itself, as this will lead to grasping and attachment and further embroil one in samsara. With impermanence comes the uncertainty of the time of death - 'will tomorrow bring this life or the next?'  -  so using what time you have well and not getting distracted is emphasized strongly.

Edited September 14, 2018 by rex
Miss ng W rd

[rocala]

Hmmm Well b/ is wrong for a start. You have no idea what they are thinking. It might be a lust fuelled desire to pounce on you. Nothing says you have to make the first move.

Secondly I have to ask what are you really grasping for, girls or the balls to talk to them?

[ion]

to answer the OP, yes and no. that was craving that led to suffering. you went from appreciating beauty (the senses) to craving (dualistic ego state) and in and as the form of suffering experienced you were ego grasping (I'm shy, not the type to...why can't I be more...)

 

a things is always characterized by the things that are compounded into that being "thing"; suffering in part is "composed" of desire and craving which is suffering is unbarable nd why suffering itself will bare the imprint of the craving and desire that started it

[Everything]

On 9/11/2018 at 12:05 PM, Arkx6 said:

So im sat by a pool on holiday. I see two beauties in bikinis. I enjoy gazing at them until i realise

 

a) im too shy to talk them, 

b )without talking to them i will never have them

 

the desire for them is denied satisfaction...i suffer.

the more i think on it...(grasping?) the more i suffer.

 

do i suffer because i want more (grasping?)

 

been reading about the 4 noble truths, the first one is just a fact that in a world where we dont allways get our way there is potential to suffer...but suffering is optional i am reminded. Pain doesnt have an opt out but suffering does.

 

So what is grasping? Wanting more than we have, in love, money etc? And it can go two ways...we get what we want or we dont...so in everything desirable there is potential to suffer?

 

is this what the first noble truth is saying? In chasing what is desirable to us there is potential to suffer because its not guaranteed that we get what we crave? And no matter how good we are we wont get what we want 100% of the time...

 

still wish i had those bikini clad babes lol

It's funny that people look within to teach themselves what they can learn from without aswell. It just shows how powerful we as humanity have chosen to become now. How high of a frequency of accelerated learning process.

 

You will always suffer if you believe in your own powerlessness, because you can never become powerless. What you experience in that suffering, is using your full power against yourself in all the ways you know how. Your mind is very powerful. So what you did, is you enjoyed her beauty, and this desire naturally expanded into more of that which it is. You can allow your desire to expand from within, if you wish, by seeing all the ways you can be with that woman in your mind and imagination, that woman will then be the source of inspiration, which you now allow to flow into more and ever expanding heights of extacy, all the way to infinite pleasurable ways of experiencing that you have acces to in your imagination as your own personal window to infinite existance. Then from that extreme state of extacy or joy or love, this radiates a certain vibration, that inspires all the correct actions, as your alignment with your highest truth is like a sword of infinite sharpness, cutting straight through infinite circumstances that are not in alignment with your highest truth, so you become an unconditional being, now no longer needing the circumstances to change, but you allow them to change to show you the more of all that you already have realized yourself to be.

 

Or you can go backwards too if you wish. You can suffer, and sort of be a backwards person who walks backwards in life, cause you think it's funny to do so. So you sort of drive backwards in your car and walk backwards where ever you are, turn your back on people as you speak to them. Untill you realize the absurdity of it when you find the desire to face them again just feels more natural. And then you say, well, you are really difficult to be around you know? I really wanna be around you. You're never gonna like me for who I am tho. But you still are with me in whatever way works for you and me. Even tho I want that to be more than it is... What can I do to make you happy! I cannot stand on my head in different enough ways to make you like me. So I have literally zero choice. No choice whatsoever. To be ok with who it is I am and you are, right now. Because that is the only path towards the moreness of me and you and us. And as I then learn to allow myself to be more who it is I am, I will care less about what you choose aswell. I allow you, you allow me. We don't interfere with eachother. And it always goes well for me, cause I know the best of all that I want, and you know the best of all that you want. And we will only EVER truely meet, when the best of who it is we know we truely want to be, meet eachother. So it doesn't have to be you, or him or her. It can be anyone and everyone. For everyone will inspire you more of knowing that which is what you truely want. Forevermore. And I can allow myself to enjoy that ever expansion of the ever expanding knowledge of what it is I truely want. And the ever expanding pleasure of what it is I truely want. Ever expanding in my every circumstance in life that forever inspires me into the more and more of all of that. Wether it is you or someone else. It doesn't matter. I will forever know what it is I truely want. And I will only choose that, forevermore. As I know that is my destiny. And I can never be happy with anything less than that, ever. Forever. And ever and ever. As who it is I truely know I am. In ever expanding fashion of rapturous extacy and more.

[Spotless]

 

 

 Instinctive desire is not the big issue and generally it is not “grasping” so much in this context though at the same time it is to some extent.

 

It is relatively easy not to indulge in instinctive desire because it is so obvious that it is fairly easy for us to see it as a desire.

 

 Instinctive desires are also natural and healthy, it is how we reproduce and so giving into it or enjoying it is not a bad thing, it is when it becomes contorted but for the most part it is generally simply part of life.

 

The main pointing of the idea of “grasping” is our identification with the karmic frequencies within which we are en-tranced /held/grasped.

 

Man lives in positions which pull in one direction and push against the resistance of ones perception of the other side. Both the position and the resistance is the en-tranced position.

 

This is a situation that can only be unsatisfactory because it is based on a false view of that which is resisted And a false view of the integrity of ones willfulness in ones position - and it is in past and future.

 

When one Awakens it becomes clear how positioned one was in Politics, general thoughts,  the view of the past, the assessment of the future and future possibilities. The list is endless.

 

The en-tranced man is like 1000 tuning forks, each fork is a favorite grasped pattern of rigidity.  Belief one judges from them - throw energy from - these compressions are incorporated into ones physical being and subtle bodies, they are the spring boards of the automated lives of the en-tranced.

 

En-tranced  by personhood /identification one constantly seeks to put ones willfulness on positions - Doing, pushing, smashing the square peg into the round hole endlessly. Harshly coming down on perceived competing position in an ever growing Insistence on otherness and MEness.

 

In an un-grasped state the welling of resistance does not come up from us and we are not torn by the inertia’s of position. Past held patterns of rigidized polarizing diminishing mind stories fall away.

 

 One can still prefer the taste food, one over another, one can still look at the relative and have preference - but it is now in present and un-held.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Spotless

[Wu Ming Jen]

On 9/11/2018 at 6:05 AM, Arkx6 said:

So im sat by a pool on holiday. I see two beauties in bikinis. I enjoy gazing at them until i realise

 

a) im too shy to talk them, 

b )without talking to them i will never have them

 

 

a) that is a good thing 

a) bad thing, being mouthy could have turned them off and more than personal suffering you could have regret, embarrassment, ridicule, physical injury and all kinds of fun things to go along with your suffering or even worse a threesome.

 

that is a good thing. you will never "have" them

bad thing  you "have" them. I have no problem with mutual give and take. You may have missed a chance of a lifetime. No one will ever know so it all does not even matter at all, let all your preconceived  suffering go.

[dawei]

On 9/13/2018 at 11:42 AM, Fa Xin said:

Needing to eat... not a desire. 

 

Needing to eat a cheese pizza with a coke ... a desire

 

What you choose to eat and why may be the 'desire' question mark... 

 

BTW: I hate coke... pass me a pepsi please !  LOL

 

At UMSC Camp Lejeune in NC, we were tested on our memory of acronyms...  then the day came... nervous as hell because you want to blurt out a correct answer but don't want to be beat due to a wrong answer...

 

They asked hydraulic and pneumatic accronym... till one drill Sargent got a little cheeky and asked for:  

 

What is 'PePSI'  

And I shouted out to the moutains, "PEPSI" [drink] 

 

He walked up to me... breathing hard (yes, a bit too much cologne as why need it here... and a bit of I'm going to kick your ass)... and then he smiled so deeply and laughed his ass off....   I suspect I was the first to catch his stupid ruse on this acronyms.   

 

So, who was grasping here.. he for an answer or me for affirmation of an answer ?