Rebirth????

[rocala]

If I have understood this correctly, at the point of death, the skandhas leave the deceased and in some way influence a new life form from it's very beginning.

 

Many introductions to Buddhism have something like this and then move forward. I find this raises a few questions though.

Do the skandhas know what they are looking for, or is something drawing them? Or is it entirely random? If rebirth can occur in multiple worlds eg gods or hungry ghosts, do the skandhas exist multi-dimensionally or is one level pre-set (presumably by kharma).

 

I have not come across anything which tackles these issues, any ideas anyone?

[Cheshire Cat]

Suppose that as the flame reaches the bottom of a candle, we put the wick of a new candle to the flame of the old candle and catch the flame from the old candle to the new one.

The flame on the old candle goes out and the flame has now been transmitted to the new candle. Is it the same flame or a different flame?

 

From one angle we can say it is the same flame because it follows in continuity, it belongs to the same series. But now the flame is burning with a new physical base, with a new candle as its support. It is burning up new particles of air, new pieces of wax, a new section of wick.

 

We say it is the same flame as the flame of the old candle because it caught fire from that and it continues the succession. But there is no absolute identity of one flame with the other, because of the conditions contributing to that flame. But we can't say that it is a different flame. To call it a different flames would not be in conformity with conventional usage.

 

[rocala]

Thanks but not really answering my question. In your analogy we would know how and why the new candle got there and how the contact was made. In my question this whole area is (it appears) a complete blank.  Any ideas @Cheshire Cat

[vonkrankenhaus]

If you think about this in terms of other aspects of the body, like heat, water - these also leave the body and become part of new patterns.

Other aspects function similarly.


 

-VonKrankenhaus

[rocala]

Thanks for answering. So far then It would seem, according to this analogy, to be entirely random.

[Marblehead]

Yeah, birth and death are random.  But there are things for us to do while alive.

 

[vonkrankenhaus]

1 hour ago, rocala said:

It would seem, according to this analogy, to be entirely random.

 

Only as random as Wu Xing or YinYang are - which is not random at all.

 

All things happen in accord with natural order.

 

And thus can be studied, observed.

Like studying the heat or water being released from the body after death.

 

Thermodynamics isn't really "random" either.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Stosh]

If your analogy is a flame , then I would suggest -

- it can be seen as a form of destiny ,

that a flame will occur in conditions which are conducive to having the flame happen.

Fuel +air + ignition source and Voila!

ya got's a flame.

 

(The tricky part is whether one considers a flame to have independently originated, which is to say ,

that the flame is somehow unique ,

or if it is just a condition born of the prevailing situation

in that localized part of the universe.) 

 

And then.. it is not requiring of some sort of limbo to preserve the Aggregates in.. 

nor is it requiring of some sort of conscious selection process to line up the soul with a new body.

It would just be an unavoidable destiny that things worked out the way they did.   

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2018 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

20 minutes ago, MildMouse23 said:

Birth and death are random but life has a purpose, so shouldn't we find purpose in the birth and death instead of deeming it as just random or am I thinking way too much into this? 

Yeah, sometimes I think too much too.

 

[Fa Xin]

On 9/14/2018 at 3:00 PM, Marblehead said:

Yeah, birth and death are random.  But there are things for us to do while alive.

 

 

“If you want to know your past life, look at your present condition.
If you want to know your future life, look at your present actions.”

― Padmasambhava

[Patrick Brown]

Hi All,

I'll just chime in as I'm passing, been away for years!!

 

So the way I see it when you're dead you're dead but what people tend not to get is that there are somethings beyond the material realms and in essence they don't exist! It's pretty hardcore philosophy, or not, but the personality of an individual is what reappears. So everything disintegrates and nothing is left so how can a persons personality reappear? Well it never really existed to begin with did it? It's like an illusion. Think memes and ideas as that's similar. 

 

Anyway the mind-stream is an unbroken thread so as the conscious mind fades into oblivion another mind begins it's appearance from oblivion. Bear in mind that everything exists and is happening all at once so the continuation of the mind stream is a natural event. You can pencil in the rest for yourself. Oh the dissolution of the personal ego/personality happens but I haven't figured that out yet it's something to do with it being absorbed into a kind of nirvanic state (laya center perhaps) and some say the personality can still reappear! Well either way we're often told we're eternal beings but be careful not to freak yourself out with that notion!    

[lino]

On 9/14/2018 at 9:11 AM, rocala said:

If I have understood this correctly, at the point of death, the skandhas leave the deceased and in some way influence a new life form from it's very beginning.

 

Many introductions to Buddhism have something like this and then move forward. I find this raises a few questions though.

Do the skandhas know what they are looking for, or is something drawing them? Or is it entirely random? If rebirth can occur in multiple worlds eg gods or hungry ghosts, do the skandhas exist multi-dimensionally or is one level pre-set (presumably by kharma).

 

I have not come across anything which tackles these issues, any ideas anyone?

Rebirth is a series of medical injections.

The word "God" or "Ra" has roots in the word "teacher". The word "God" has been used too loosely. The land of the Contented Devas doesn't exit. A Deva is not a God. The Pure Lands doesn't exist.

hungry ghosts don't exist.

[doc benway]

On 9/14/2018 at 1:52 PM, rocala said:

Thanks for answering. So far then It would seem, according to this analogy, to be entirely random.

 

No more than karma is random.

[lino]

On 9/14/2018 at 9:11 AM, rocala said:

If I have understood this correctly, at the point of death, the skandhas leave the deceased and in some way influence a new life form from it's very beginning.

 

Many introductions to Buddhism have something like this and then move forward. I find this raises a few questions though.

Do the skandhas know what they are looking for, or is something drawing them? Or is it entirely random? If rebirth can occur in multiple worlds eg gods or hungry ghosts, do the skandhas exist multi-dimensionally or is one level pre-set (presumably by kharma).

 

I have not come across anything which tackles these issues, any ideas anyone?

 

The skandhas are not what you think.

This planet is not in different dimensions. There is only one situation that is called a rebirth. A person gets injected with something, then becomes a baby or fetus(white injection gun). The baby or fetus gets thrown in a woman's belly(brown injection gun).

The word "god" means teacher.

[rocala]

Hi @lino thanks for your reply. It however raises lots more questions. Please elaborate.

"The skandhas are not what you think."  Well I never said what I think they are, but I would like to know your interpretation.

Secondly we have the "something" which is injected. Again some info would be great.

Third we have the "person" who becomes a "baby". Very interesting. I suspect that this refers to a spiritual state perhaps? Please write more Lino.