Identity-less and purposelessness dilemma.

[Shad282]

Hello,

As I have been practicing and working on attachments and identity. I have reached a state where i have dis-identified myself with my inner self, thoughts, past and such inner stories of me. but now i m stuck with deriving a sense of self and identity from other people, as how people perceive me.

I used to be more of an introverted person, but now i m more of an extroverted person, as the need to have an identity is itching and needed from outside Because i need a kind of purpose or a reason to move and live life.

 

I m not taking the choice to release the identity yet, because in process of doing that, i started being sad, and feeling purposeless. Less motivate to live and no passion to life. I have nothing to live for or something to exist for which makes me feel useless and why i exist?

 

Any help or suggestion is appreciated.

[Aetherous]

It's not healthy to dissociate from your identity, or to try and get rid of identity.

Buddhism teaches that negative emotions can tend to arise from having an identity, and it has skillful means of dealing with that...but that's not to say the key to freedom from suffering is to dis-identify. Obviously, because you can tell from your results that it isn't the right way: your suffering has been increasing.

So, just something to think about.

[liminal_luke]

Hi Shad282,

 

You talk about a loss of motivation to live and a feeling of uselessness.  That sounds like depression to me.  Sometimes the way we go about spiritual practice brings us down  -- happens to the best of us.  Or it might be that you choose a certain form of spiritual practice because you were already feeling down.  

 

In any case, it`s something to consider.  It`s not necessary to be in a deep clinical depressed state before taking action; in fact, the sooner you do something proactive to better your mood, the better.  If you agree that depression is something to consider there are so many ways you might go about helping yourself.  There`s exercise and talking to a friend.  Counseling and medication.  Changes to diet.  I`m sure you`ll know what`s best for your particular situation.

Edited September 16, 2018 by liminal_luke

[Shad282]

7 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Hi Shad282,

 

You talk about a loss of motivation to live and a feeling of uselessness.  That sounds like depression to me.  Sometimes the way we go about spiritual practice brings us down  -- happens to the best of us.  Or it might be that you choose a certain form of spiritual practice because you were already feeling down.  

 

In any case, it`s something to consider.  It`s not necessary to be in a deep clinical depressed state before taking action; in fact, the sooner you do something proactive to better your mood, the better.  If you agree that depression is something to consider there are so many ways you might go about helping yourself.  There`s exercise and talking to a friend.  Counseling and medication.  Changes to diet.  I`m sure you`ll know what`s best for your particular situation.

 

Why considering it a depression. I mean it is that i m not having an answer regarding a purpose or motivation in life. I do many things and some are fun and such but not necessarily to be something to live for or coming from desire.  I have chased back every desire i had and some that still arises, and they all come out of deep rooted problems and worked on some, and working on the others.

But the more i try to solve those issues, the more i become desireless and the less desires u have, the less you are motivated.

[liminal_luke]

12 minutes ago, Shad282 said:

 

Why considering it a depression. I mean it is that i m not having an answer regarding a purpose or motivation in life. I do many things and some are fun and such but not necessarily to be something to live for or coming from desire.  I have chased back every desire i had and some that still arises, and they all come out of deep rooted problems and worked on some, and working on the others.

But the more i try to solve those issues, the more i become desireless and the less desires u have, the less you are motivated.

 

Maybe it`s not depression.  I can`t know one way or the other, obviously, and am just throwing out a possibility for your consideration.  If it doesn`t fit, feel free to disregard.

 

I guess I`d ask about the feeling tone of the loss of motivation and desire.  Is it light and airy? Spacious?  Does the lack of attachment feel like relief, a burden that`s been lifted? Is there an accompanying sense of contentment and rightness to the universe?  If so, then my observation is completely  off-base and, well, congratulations.

 

Or does the loss of motivation and desire feel heavy and energy-zapping?  Do you find it hard to do things that previously interested you?  Are you sleeping more or less than you used to, eating more or less?  

 

I don`t at all mean to imply that I know what`s going on for you because I don`t.  Just throwing out an idea in case it helps. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by liminal_luke

[s1va]

The reason that you are looking for can be found in small things.  Let's say someone tripped and was about to fall down.  You just happened to be there and not with intention or conscious effort to help, but instinctively your hand just went to steady the person from falling and injuring themselves.  This is reason enough for living.  You don't necessarily have to have helped the person from great impending danger or help someone falling every single day.  I am sure you helped someone somewhere like that.

 

The point is, truly no purpose is needed to justify our existence.  If we were to look for such purpose, ask yourself the question, put in a scenario like that, would you help the person that is falling?  If the answer is 'yes', know and be happy that there is purpose to your existence.  The purpose is the compassion you possess to help.

[Shad282]

2 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Maybe it`s not depression.  I can`t know one way or the other, obviously, and am just throwing out a possibility for your consideration.  If it doesn`t fit, feel free to disregard.

 

I guess I`d ask about the feeling tone of the loss of motivation and desire.  Is it light and airy? Spacious?  Does the lack of attachment feel like relief, a burden that`s been lifted? Is there an accompanying sense of contentment and rightness to the universe?  If so, then my observation is completely and off-base and, well, congratulations.

 

Or does the loss of motivation and desire feel heavy and energy-zapping?  Do you find it hard to do things that previously interested you?  Are you sleeping more or less than you used to, eating more or less?  

 

I don`t at all mean to imply that I know what`s going on for you because I don`t.  Just throwing out an idea in case it helps. 

Oh don't worry i m enjoying the discussion. Thank you. 

 

at first, the loss of attachment feels good, and empowering. but later on with time, it feels like what is next? I have been living for something and chasing it everyday and some i was basing my life on them. but then now what should i do in this universe?

I used to obtain my happiness from these "objects" or "people" they were source of joy, motivation and such for my life.

 

After all these stuff have stopped being my source of happiness or joy, then where/what is the source of happiness ?

 

Or shall i live an indifferent/neutral life, not happy not sad ?

my sleep is fine, and my eating is good.

 

 

[s1va]

1 hour ago, Aetherous said:

It's not healthy to dissociate from your identity, or to try and get rid of identity.

Buddhism teaches that negative emotions can tend to arise from having an identity, and it has skillful means of dealing with that...but that's not to say the key to freedom from suffering is to dis-identify. Obviously, because you can tell from your results that it isn't the right way: your suffering has been increasing.

So, just something to think about.

 

 

That first line is so important that I think it should be printed in large bold font as a disclaimer that all spiritual seekers should be made to read and acknowledge.  The self-inquiry or the questioning methods have this inherent trap which does seem to magnify or increase the suffering as you stated.

[Shad282]

8 minutes ago, s1va said:

 

 

That first line is so important that I think it should be printed in large bold font as a disclaimer that all spiritual seekers should be made to read and acknowledge.  The self-inquiry or the questioning methods have this inherent trap which does seem to magnify or increase the suffering as you stated.

 

can you explain more ?

[s1va]

1 minute ago, Shad282 said:

 

can you explain more ?

 

Yes, In my opinion this is not simply an intellectual puzzle.  One can't simply think or reason their way out of this.  Understanding is important, but it is only one aspect.  There are several other aspects that come together in solving the puzzle.  But when we trivialize the problem totally as a mind problem that can be solved by intellectual analysis such as the one that denies or tries to get rid of the identity.  Instead of helping make progress, this can possibly just magnify some of the other issues, and raise further complications.  Such efforts lead to an unhealthy state of detachment, because any knowledge gained is not yet supported by the other areas or aspects of us growing proportionately.

[Marblehead]

4 hours ago, Shad282 said:

I m not taking the choice to release the identity yet, because in process of doing that, i started being sad, and feeling purposeless. Less motivate to live and no passion to life. I have nothing to live for or something to exist for which makes me feel useless and why i exist?

I suggest that you stop that practice.  I'm serious.  Identity of self (and Self) is important.  We should not have to look to other people to give us identity.   

[Fa Xin]

10 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Maybe it`s not depression.  I can`t know one way or the other, obviously, and am just throwing out a possibility for your consideration.  If it doesn`t fit, feel free to disregard.

 

I guess I`d ask about the feeling tone of the loss of motivation and desire.  Is it light and airy? Spacious?  Does the lack of attachment feel like relief, a burden that`s been lifted? Is there an accompanying sense of contentment and rightness to the universe?  If so, then my observation is completely  off-base and, well, congratulations.

 

Or does the loss of motivation and desire feel heavy and energy-zapping?  Do you find it hard to do things that previously interested you?  Are you sleeping more or less than you used to, eating more or less?  

 

I don`t at all mean to imply that I know what`s going on for you because I don`t.  Just throwing out an idea in case it helps. 

 

Very nice post. I’ve felt both of these at different times of life, and the difference is clear as day.

[CityHermit!]

I'm not sure why this would be a topic one would entrust strangers with.

[Marblehead]

48 minutes ago, CityHermit! said:

I'm not sure why this would be a topic one would entrust strangers with.

That's why I said as little as I could while expressing my intuitional response.

 

[wandelaar]

There is a timeless aspect to who you are that was before you were and will be after you are gone, but that is not the person you are right now. It is the person you are right now that has to live right now. Don't disengage with that.

[Fa Xin]

4 hours ago, CityHermit! said:

I'm not sure why this would be a topic one would entrust strangers with.

 

We are wise strangers though! Sometimes anonymity is nice

[liminal_luke]

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

 

We are wise strangers though! Sometimes anonymity is nice

 

I love this!  Sometimes I get caught in not-so-wise corners of this forum and forget about all the amazing advice and support we so freely give to each other here. 

 

In my capacity as an occasionally wise stranger, I`d like to give you, Shad282, one last suggestion: find someone wise and not so strange to sit at a table with you and listen to your story.  Someone physically present in your real life.  It`s not that real life people are likely to be wiser than us, just that there`s something so supportive about the physical presence of an actual breathing human being.  

 

By the way, I no longer believe you are depressed in the sense I meant in my first post.  I don`t think you "need help" or anything like that.  My sense is that you might be going through a deep process of values clarification and the things that meant something to you previously seem less meaningful now.  

 

So my suggestion about talking to a real person isn`t because I think you need therapy, although a therapist might be one such person.  Rather, I think human beings do best when they feel accompanied and supported.  We all do.  Our culture is so gosh darn individualistic but our biology is built for relationship. What`s happening for you probably isn`t depression but it is an important transitional moment and you deserve wise embodied company as you go through it.  Give yourself that gift.  

[Shad282]

1 minute ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I love this!  Sometimes I get caught in not-so-wise corners of this forum and forget about all the amazing advice and support we so freely give to each other here. 

 

In my capacity as an occasionally wise stranger, I`d like to give you, Shad282, one last suggestion: find someone wise and not so strange to sit at a table with you and listen to your story.  Someone physically present in your real life.  It`s not that real life people are likely to be wiser than us, just that there`s something so supportive about the physical presence of an actual breathing human being.  

 

By the way, I no longer believe you are depressed in the sense I meant in my first post.  I don`t think you "need help" or anything like that.  My sense is that you might be going through a deep process of values clarification and the things that meant something to you previously seem less meaningful now.  

 

So my suggestion about talking to a real person isn`t because I think you need therapy, although a therapist might be one such person.  Rather, I think human beings do best when they feel accompanied and supported.  We all do.  Our culture is so gosh darn individualistic but our biology is built for relationship. What`s happening for you probably isn`t depression but it is an important transitional moment and you deserve wise embodied company as you go through it.  Give yourself that gift.  

 

Thank you, and yes i m trying, but some of the info if i share it would cause me troubles, since i live in a a very traditional environment and i m the therapist of most of the "physical people" around me, I support older and younger people and listen and help them with their life issues. I m trying to say they are not wise, and might judge me badly for some aspects/stuff about me and also about my beliefs.

 

I asked here because I expect to find people who would understand spirituality/energy and depth of such subject on someone who meditate or practice energy and have such similar beliefs. and i know there are some wise people here

 

 

 

 

[Wu Ming Jen]

What really is a problem to us are our boundaries, the chains we set ourselves. Believing in one thing is not enough we must explore to know.

 

When the strength is leaving our body, we get out of our comfort zone, and our concentration drops. Battling with ourselves to the limits will give rise to an internal conflict. Letting go of our ego and accept failure will resolve all problems we have of ourselves. Only to never give up is the goal of our struggle, giving us an opportunity to grow.

 

The strength to continue is what masters seek in their students, giving them the hardship to strengthen their resolve to continue. This nourishing path is a path of internal development and forms true personality through unwavering discipline.

 

What is so good in our life if we are never challenged? Nature always has to test itself to evolve. Self-conflict means the development of crystal clear focus on the essential things.If successful then the students have accepted everything in their heart, free from all burdens and only recognize their freedom.

 

Make your purpose to find your true identity. Then you have identity and purpose. This could take a life time to achieve so no slacking off and giving into negative emotions. to solve e-motions get into motion and work it off.

 

I am not being wise just my 2 cents. The op is worth more than money value. This is the least I can do .....no really it is the least I can do.

[Marblehead]

1 hour ago, Shad282 said:

Thank you, and yes i m trying, but some of the info if i share it would cause me troubles, since i live in a a very traditional environment and i m the therapist of most of the "physical people" around me, I support older and younger people and listen and help them with their life issues. I m trying to say they are not wise, and might judge me badly for some aspects/stuff about me and also about my beliefs.

You're not taking on the problems of those you are helping, are you?

 

[Stosh]

Next piece of advice you hand out... tell em they owe you for it. Charge em a dollar or demand they perform some chore like taking out the garbage. Right there get that debt secured.  

Things will change pretty quickly. Most likely you will become a target of defiance etc. 

Then you can report back here. 

Chop chop.

 

[Shad282]

2 hours ago, Marblehead said:

You're not taking on the problems of those you are helping, are you?

 

No, i always try not to, when i help them i ll be like talking to myself and it feels like i m helping my own self.

 

Actually when i help people, i reach a mind state of peace and stillness and speak out of it. Words start to come out from awareness without prior thinking, so it feels nice.

 

 

[Stosh]

1 hour ago, Stosh said:

Next piece of advice you hand out... tell em they owe you for it. Charge em a dollar or demand they perform some chore like taking out the garbage. Right there get that debt secured.  

Things will change pretty quickly. Most likely you will become a target of defiance etc. 

Then you can report back here. 

Chop chop.

 

I wasnt joking.

[Nungali]

On 17/09/2018 at 3:12 AM, Shad282 said:

Hello,

As I have been practicing and working on attachments and identity. I have reached a state where i have dis-identified myself with my inner self, thoughts, past and such inner stories of me. but now i m stuck with deriving a sense of self and identity from other people, as how people perceive me.

I used to be more of an introverted person, but now i m more of an extroverted person, as the need to have an identity is itching and needed from outside Because i need a kind of purpose or a reason to move and live life.

 

I m not taking the choice to release the identity yet, because in process of doing that, i started being sad, and feeling purposeless. Less motivate to live and no passion to life. I have nothing to live for or something to exist for which makes me feel useless and why i exist?

 

Any help or suggestion is appreciated.

 

Sounds like you have been doing a bad and unhealthy practice then.

 

Systems of  development and initiation, all over the world and through the past and present are designed specifically for people to understand their  identity and purpose.  When these systems  break down, the culture or society starts to break down . In clear identifiable steps and indicators.

 

That is why you are being 'pulled' by the basic human dynamic : " he need to have an identity is itching and needed from outside Because i need a kind of purpose or a reason to move and live life. "

 

You are in danger , like our whole society is .  There is however a remedy for the individual and society .

 

Your dilemma is what many  disposed indigenous  feel ; " sad, and feeling purposeless. Less motivate to live and no passion to life. I have nothing to live for or something to exist for which makes me feel useless and why i exist? "

 

Thats why, in the 'end symptoms '  of a collapsing society there is so much individual lack of self worth, which eventually becomes self harm and self destruction.

 

Be careful !  You need to implement the remedies ... and stop such silly and destructive practices , such as what ever did this to you in the first place .

Edited September 17, 2018 by Nungali

[liminal_luke]

Consider the Dalai Lama.  He`s the spiritual leader of an approach that favors letting go of attachments, and yet by all accounts he doesn`t appear to be lacking a sense of identity or purpose.  Maybe he`s just not very good at meditation?  Paradoxically, I believe that letting go of attachments ultimately strengthens identity and purpose, not the other way around.  Our language lacks an easy way to describe what happens, how a felt sense of a solid self can coexist so harmoniously with selflessness.  

 

It`s also true that the spiritual path is rarely a straight slog up the mountain.  There are usually switchbacks galore and sometimes you have to go down to go up.  So how to know if one is simply facing a difficult but ultimately productive dark-night-of-the-soul experience...or has stepped off the path altogether?  Perhaps this is where having a teacher could be helpful.