Identity-less and purposelessness dilemma.

[s1va]

4 hours ago, CityHermit! said:

Actually its you and others who have a hard time doing that. I couldn't care less if you are a mod or not either.

 

Staff/Moderator Notice

 

CityHermit! - You have derailed this thread already with your numerous opinionated  posts on what should and should not be discussed by other forum members.  You are also engaging in endless arguments with other members and staff.  This is a warning for you to stay away from this thread for the next 24 hours and not post in this thread again during that time period.

 

Edit:  For anyone interested in discussing in-person face to face interactions vs. online social media/forum interactions, please create a separate topic in the appropriate section of the forum.

 

[Pilgrim]

2 hours ago, Shad282 said:

So, I guess so far, it is a kind of development in spirituality but seeking harmony in that development, so i m in a phase and gotta be patient, more in the now and practice mindfulness in order to reach a more stable state of mind.

You've got it exactly.

 

You are going to be okay.

 

This phase can last a very long time. Something to try to come to terms with and be at peace with this is going to be with you for the rest of your life to some degree. It is okay for it to be, you will grow into it.

 

Awakenings are not always easy and they tend to come in degrees not one and done all at once. Try not to take on false airs but remain real and keep a sense of humor being irreverent can be allot of fun. My goodness do not loose track of the fun.

 

Some awakenings can be very difficult and happen at the most inopportune time. I had a few that were pretty severe and blasted me clean out of ordinary living, one in particular at age 17 right before entering basic training in the United States Army. Needless to say I had a very interesting basic training as things just did not phase me. 

 

The ones you have to watch out for are the highly energetic awakening. These should be prepared for in advance. In my case at the age of 39 I was practicing ZAZEN. This is not an energetic practice.

 

What people fail to tell you is that the energy comes from literally no where. When you enter into sufficient spaciousness and stillness the energy flows from that. In Zazen people have a very hard time with the after effects of these Kensho moments, some are even debilitated requiring care of others in the community. 

 

In my case the energy came and tore up and down my spine. I literally could not walk without the aid of a cane. MRI scans revealed what appeared to be advanced arthritis as in swelling in every facet joint in my spine. I asked if  electrocution could cause this, they told me at the time yes but it would take allot.

 

It took 4 years to recover from not only severe debilitating back pain but headaches that would leave me unable to function sometimes for a day at a time. Had I known how to work with the currents in the spine there would not have been an issue. Later MRI's revealed the facet joints were no longer swollen.

 

You can safely accelerate the process of integration and further unfoldment by the practice of Kriya Yoga. There are many claiming legitimacy in Kriya Yoga, there are only two lineages I can recommend. Forget about books.

 

I know a very good teacher here in the United States who was trained personally by the great Samadhi Master Paramahamsa Hariharananda. This teacher is gearing up even as I type this to offer the practices which are authentic to this lineage in a never before done format. It is my intention to help him so he may give to individuals like yourself needing the guidance of an experienced teacher.

 

Send me a PM with your contact information and when this teacher is ready I will put you in contact with him.

 

Alternatively I can recommend the practices of the BON tradition as well. 

 

The practices involve the 9 breaths and Tsa Lung. with these two alone you will be able to balance your system very nicely without fear of hurting yourself or disrupting your balance.

 

Take a look here https://www.ligminchalearning.com/crs2/

 

You will have to sign up for a free account to access the free teachings at the bottom of the page.  Starting a meditation practice from the BON Tradition of Tibet is the place to start. The Lama Tinzen Wangyl Rinpoche is an excellent teacher. From the free lessons you can learn both the 9 breaths and TSA LUNG practices and get a great education while watching his other videos.

 

Hope this has been informative and helpful.

[Shad282]

11 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

You've got it exactly.

 

You are going to be okay.

 

This phase can last a very long time. Something to try to come to terms with and be at peace with this is going to be with you for the rest of your life to some degree. It is okay for it to be, you will grow into it.

 

Awakenings are not always easy and they tend to come in degrees not one and done all at once. Try not to take on false airs but remain real and keep a sense of humor being irreverent can be allot of fun. My goodness do not loose track of the fun.

 

Some awakenings can be very difficult and happen at the most inopportune time. I had a few that were pretty severe and blasted me clean out of ordinary living, one in particular at age 17 right before entering basic training in the United States Army. Needless to say I had a very interesting basic training as things just did not phase me. 

 

The ones you have to watch out for are the highly energetic awakening. These should be prepared for in advance. In my case at the age of 39 I was practicing ZAZEN. This is not an energetic practice.

 

What people fail to tell you is that the energy comes from literally no where. When you enter into sufficient spaciousness and stillness the energy flows from that. In Zazen people have a very hard time with the after effects of these Kensho moments, some are even debilitated requiring care of others in the community. 

 

In my case the energy came and tore up and down my spine. I literally could not walk without the aid of a cane. MRI scans revealed what appeared to be advanced arthritis as in swelling in every facet joint in my spine. I asked if  electrocution could cause this, they told me at the time yes but it would take allot.

 

It took 4 years to recover from not only severe debilitating back pain but headaches that would leave me unable to function sometimes for a day at a time. Had I known how to work with the currents in the spine there would not have been an issue. Later MRI's revealed the facet joints were no longer swollen.

 

You can safely accelerate the process of integration and further unfoldment by the practice of Kriya Yoga. There are many claiming legitimacy in Kriya Yoga, there are only two lineages I can recommend. Forget about books.

 

I know a very good teacher here in the United States who was trained personally by the great Samadhi Master Paramahamsa Hariharananda. This teacher is gearing up even as I type this to offer the practices which are authentic to this lineage in a never before done format. It is my intention to help him so he may give to individuals like yourself needing the guidance of an experienced teacher.

 

Send me a PM with your contact information and when this teacher is ready I will put you in contact with him.

 

Alternatively I can recommend the practices of the BON tradition as well. 

 

The practices involve the 9 breaths and Tsa Lung. with these two alone you will be able to balance your system very nicely without fear of hurting yourself or disrupting your balance.

 

Take a look here https://www.ligminchalearning.com/crs2/

 

You will have to sign up for a free account to access the free teachings at the bottom of the page.  Starting a meditation practice from the BON Tradition of Tibet is the place to start. The Lama Tinzen Wangyl Rinpoche is an excellent teacher. From the free lessons you can learn both the 9 breaths and TSA LUNG practices and get a great education while watching his other videos.

 

Hope this has been informative and helpful.

Thank you for your very helpful post !!

[Apech]

On 9/16/2018 at 6:12 PM, Shad282 said:

Hello,

As I have been practicing and working on attachments and identity. I have reached a state where i have dis-identified myself with my inner self, thoughts, past and such inner stories of me. but now i m stuck with deriving a sense of self and identity from other people, as how people perceive me.

I used to be more of an introverted person, but now i m more of an extroverted person, as the need to have an identity is itching and needed from outside Because i need a kind of purpose or a reason to move and live life.

 

I m not taking the choice to release the identity yet, because in process of doing that, i started being sad, and feeling purposeless. Less motivate to live and no passion to life. I have nothing to live for or something to exist for which makes me feel useless and why i exist?

 

Any help or suggestion is appreciated.

 

 

Cheer up Shaddy

[s1va]

14 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

This phase can last a very long time. Something to try to come to terms with and be at peace with this is going to be with you for the rest of your life to some degree. It is okay for it to be, you will grow into it.

 

This part is the key in my opinion.  First to understand it is a phase.  Everything passes away sooner or later.  But the depth of some situations make us think it may never end or go away, like it is a constant experience.

 

Also, the acceptance and to come to terms with the fact the situation may persist for a while is very important. Somethings do keep coming back.  But with complete acceptance, the grip such phases have over us loosens over time, until a point where it may not matter at all when we go through such phases.

 

I went through a rough phase myself recently.  With some recurring pain and discomfort happening in episodes.  The knowing it is just a phase that happens in episodes and complete acceptance were the key things that helped me.  Moment to moment awareness and just watching the discomfort also helped.  In simply observing threse episodes without associating them with any mind stories, sometimes I went from pain and intense discomfort to blissful samadhi states.

 

The bottomline, it's not going to be rosy all the time for anyone.  The sooner we completely accept this, it might enable us to take steps or actions that opens up possibilities and potentially help us.

[s1va]

I recalled Aurobindo's writings about the obstacles and difficulties that may arise in sadhana and how to face them (from the book, The Practical Guide to Internal Yoga by Sri Aurobindo).  His writings are beautiful and they convey the message with clarity.

 

This may  be long, but worthwhile reading, in my opinion.  Actually, someone interested should checkout the entire book.

 

Quote

DIFFICULTIES, DISTURBANCES (The Practical Guide to Internal Yoga by Sri Aurobindo)

Do not be troubled by your surroundings and their oppositions. These conditions are often imposed at first 
as a kind of ordeal. If you can remain tranquil and undisturbed and continue your sadhana without allowing 
yourself to be inwardly troubled under these circumstances, it will help to give you a much needed strength; 
for the path of Yoga is always beset with inner and outer difficulties and the sadhaka must develop a quiet, firm 
and solid strength to meet them. 

All who enter the spiritual path have to face the difficulties and ordeals of the path, those which rise from 
their own nature and those which come in from outside. The difficulties in the nature always rise again and again 
till you overcome them; they must be faced with both strength and patience. But the vital part is prone to 
depression when ordeals and difficulties rise. But you must train yourself to overcome this reaction of depres- 
sion, calling in the Mother's Force to aid you. 

All who cleave to the path steadfastly can be sure of their spiritual destiny. If anyone fails to reach it, 
it can only be for one of the two reasons, either because they leave the path or because for some lure of ambition, 
vanity, desire, etc. they go astray from the sincere dependence on the Divine. 

The Divine is there, but He does not ignore the conditions, the laws, the circumstances of Nature; it is under 
these conditions that He does all His work, His work in the world and in man and consequently also in the 
sadhaka, the aspirant, even in the God-knower and God-lover; even the saint and the sage continue to have 
difficulties and to be limited by their human nature. 

In the ordinary life people accept the vital movements,anger, desire, greed, sex, etc. as natural, allowable and 
legitimate things, part of the human nature. Only so far as society discourages them or insists to keep them 
within fixed limits or subject to a decent restraint or measure, people try to control them so as to conform to the 
social standard of morality or rule of conduct. Here, on the contrary, as in all spiritual life, the conquest and 
complete mastery of these things is demanded. Tha,t is why the struggle is more felt, not because these things 
rise more strongly in sadhaks than in ordinary men, but because of the intensity of the struggle between the 
spiritual mind which demands control and the vital movements which rebel and want to continue in the new as they did in the old life. 

You should know perfectly well that, in our Yoga, pain and suffering and struggle and excesses of despair 
are natural though not inevitable on the way not because they are helps but because they are imposed on 
us by the darkness of this human nature out of which we have to struggle into the Light. 

Nobody has ever said that the spiritual change was an easy thing; all spiritual seekers will say that it is difficult 
but supremely worth doing. If one's desire for the Divine has become the master desire, then surely one 
can give one's whole life to it without repining and not grudge the time, difficulty or labour. 

That does not mean that those whose faith is not so strong or surrender complete cannot arrive, but usually 
they have at first to go by small steps and to face the difficulties of their nature until by perseverance or tapasya 
they make a sufficient opening. Even a faltering faith and a slow and partial surrender have their force and 
their result, otherwise only the rare few could do sadhana at all. 

Obstacles are there they are part of Nature and they have to be overcome. The Mother's help is always 
there but you are not conscious of it except when the psychic is active and the consciousness not clouded. 

He is quite right in saying that the heaviness of these .attacks was due to the fact that you had taken up the 
sadhana in earnest and were approaching, as one might say, the gates of the Kingdom of Light. That always 
makes these forces rage and they strain every nerve and use or create every opportunity to turn the sadhak back 
or, if possible, drive him out of the path altogether by their suggestions, their violent influences and their 
exploitations of all kinds of incidents that always crop up more and more when these conditions prevail, so that 
he may not reach the gates.... People nowadays seek the explanation for everything in their ignorant reason, 
their surface experience and in outside happenings. They <lo not see the hidden forces and inner causes.... These 
forces find their point d'appui in the sadhak himself, in the ignorant parts of his consciousness and its assent to 
their suggestions and influences.... 

It is inevitable once one enters into this Yoga that the difficulties should rise up and they go on rising up so 
long as anything of them is left in the system at all. 

What is needed to pass through difficulties is sincerity and perseverance. 

and perseverance 

This Yoga is a spiritual battle; its very attempt raises all sorts of adverse forces and one must be ready to face 
difficulties, sufferings, reverses of all sorts in a calm unflinching spirit. 

The difficulties that come are ordeals and tests and if one meets them in the right spirit, one comes out stronger 
and spiritually purer and greater. 

When there is an attack from the human instruments of adverse forces, one should try to overcome it not in 
a spirit of personal hatred or anger or wounded egoism, but with a calm spirit of strength and equanimity and a 
call to the Divine Force to act. Success or failure lies with the Divine. 

One should then seek out this weakness in oneself and correct it. No weakness, no arrogance or violence, this 
should be the spirit. 

When difficulties arise, remain quiet within and call down the Mother's Force to remove them. The Mother's 
Force is not only above on the summit of the being. It is there with you and near you, ready to act whenever
 your nature will allow it. It is so with everybody here. 

However strong the attack may be, and even if it overcomes for the time being, still it will rapidly pass 
away if you have formed the habit of opening to the Mother. The peace will come back if you remain quiet 
and keep yourself open to it and to the Force. Once something of the Truth has shown itself within you, it 
will always, even if for a time heavily clouded over with wrong movements, shine out .again like the sun in heaven. 
Therefore persevere with confidence and never lose courage. 

Outer difficulties or inconveniences you should not allow to alarm or depress you. Inner difficulties should 
also be met with detachment, calm, equality, the unshakable will to conquer. These small desires obstruct 
greatly the change in the outer consciousness and the being must be free from them if the transformation is 
not to be hampered there. 

A solid mind, a solid nervous system, and a steady psychic flame seem to be the only safeguard against 
"terrible attacks" in sadhana. If such things did not happen there would be no need of a fight day and night. 

 

[Nungali]

23 hours ago, Shad282 said:

So, I guess so far, it is a kind of development in spirituality but seeking harmony in that development, so i m in a phase and gotta be patient, more in the now and practice mindfulness in order to reach a more stable state of mind.

 

How is it a 'development in spirituality' ?   (  If  we are still talking about the OP   , that is . )  Looking at the feelings and results you described it was no 'development' of any type :

 

"  ... I have dis-identified myself with my inner self,... now i m stuck with deriving a sense of self and identity from other people, ....  i need a kind of purpose or a reason to move and live life ...... i started being sad, and feeling purposeless. Less motivate to live and no passion to life. I have nothing to live for or something to exist for which makes me feel useless and why i exist?  "

 

I am surprised no one else sees the potential seriousness of this state ; it is state that, I have seen leads to depression, self - harm ( including indirect self harm, eating disorders  * etc .  and even suicide )

 

I cant say I would recommend   the 'remedy' of   being    "more in the now and practice(ing)  mindfulness  " . 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Nungali

[Apech]

17 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

How is it a 'development in spirituality' ?   (  If  we are still talking about the OP   , that is . )  Looking at the feelings and results you described it was no 'development' of any type .  But I guess no one agrees with what I wrote before about it .  Either that, or they orefer to develop an off topic altercation, for some reason  ,         .

 

it just is! ok.

[Nungali]

No,  not  'it just is ' , nor 'ok'.   IMO .

 

But thanks for the pearls of wisdom though    ;  (  cheer up  , it just is ...    - or as they say in USA    'it is what it is '    ...      )

 

 

[Marblehead]

And you am what you am.

 

[Pilgrim]

Oh no you Just Didn’t....... I feels a strange song bursting within...

 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Pilgrim

[Nungali]

8 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

And you am what you am.

 

 

 

I love American 'philosophy'       

[Pilgrim]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

How is it a 'development in spirituality' ?   (  If  we are still talking about the OP   , that is . )  Looking at the feelings and results you described it was no 'development' of any type :

 

"  ... I have dis-identified myself with my inner self,... now i m stuck with deriving a sense of self and identity from other people, ....  i need a kind of purpose or a reason to move and live life ...... i started being sad, and feeling purposeless. Less motivate to live and no passion to life. I have nothing to live for or something to exist for which makes me feel useless and why i exist?  "

 

I am surprised no one else sees the potential seriousness of this state ; it is state that, I have seen leads to depression, self - harm ( including indirect self harm, eating disorders  * etc .  and even suicide )

 

I cant say I would recommend   the 'remedy' of   being    "more in the now and practice(ing)  mindfulness  " . 

 

 

 

Oh Im pretty sure the people responding as well as the OP are well aware of the seriousness of the state.

 

I am curious though why you are of the opinion that being present in the now and being mindfull is somehow harmful. 

[s1va]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

How is it a 'development in spirituality' ?   (  If  we are still talking about the OP   , that is . )  Looking at the feelings and results you described it was no 'development' of any type :

 

"  ... I have dis-identified myself with my inner self,... now i m stuck with deriving a sense of self and identity from other people, ....  i need a kind of purpose or a reason to move and live life ...... i started being sad, and feeling purposeless. Less motivate to live and no passion to life. I have nothing to live for or something to exist for which makes me feel useless and why i exist?  "

 

I am surprised no one else sees the potential seriousness of this state ; it is state that, I have seen leads to depression, self - harm ( including indirect self harm, eating disorders  * etc .  and even suicide )

 

I cant say I would recommend   the 'remedy' of   being    "more in the now and practice(ing)  mindfulness  " . 

 

 

 

 

I would agree with you part of the way, in the sense, it can be harmful for a person  who is depressed to engage in activities that takes the person further inwards such as meditation practices.  This is why I said in one of my early posts, self inquiry is not helpful in such cases and can amplify the problem.  When they are severely depressed, as in the examples you gave, outward activities that lead to action are more important than activities that turn the person inwards.  

 

But trying to be mindful and to stay present is a whole different thing.  In fact I see that as the true solution.   It can be practiced while engaged in activities.  There can be no depression when someone is fully present.

[Pilgrim]

Here, here well said,  Ol boy,   Well said indeed!

[liminal_luke]

Reading the opening post, I was struck by language that felt like depression to me.  It`s a little disquieting to hear someone say that they feel without purpose and motivation, and my first impulse was to label that condition -- depression -- as a way of distancing myself from what those words bring up in me.  

 

Later, Spotless suggested that what Shad`s going through is actually a positive experience, a move toward awakening.  Trunk also put this sense of purposelessness and loss of identity in a spiritual context.  These posts led me to feel curious about the way I`d been so quick to think of what Shad is going through as pathological rather than growthful.  

 

I`m not sure any of us knows what`s happening for Shad.  Perhaps some Bums have intuitive abilities or spiritual knowing that allow them to speak with certainty to the place Shad finds himself.  I do not.  While this thread did get semi-derailed for awhile, I feel that there`s been a wide variety of responses and opinions offered.  My hope is that some of these responses will be of help to Shad. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by liminal_luke

[Bindi]

Here is a short article trying to understand 'awakening' as understood and experienced by Westerners currently:

 

SPIRITUAL ALCHEMY: WHEN TRAUMA AND TURMOIL LEAD TO SPIRITUAL AWAKENING

 

In terms of this article a sense of dis-identification and despair may well be a prelude to 'awakening', but it is not awakening in itself. 

 

[Pilgrim]

9 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Reading the opening post, I was struck by language that felt like depression to me.  It`s a little disquieting to hear someone say that they feel without purpose and motivation, and my first impulse was to label that condition -- depression -- as a way of distancing myself from what those words bring up in me.  

 

Later, Spotless suggested that what Shad`s going through is actually a positive experience, a move toward awakening.  Trunk also put this sense of purposelessness and loss of identity in a spiritual context.  These posts led me to feel curious about the way I`d been so quick to think of what Shad is going through as pathological rather than growthful.  

 

I`m not sure any of us knows what`s happening for Shad.  Perhaps some Bums have intuitive abilities or spiritual knowing that allow them to speak with certainty to the place Shad finds himself.  I do not.  While this thread did get semi-derailed for awhile, I feel that there`s been a wide variety of responses and opinions offered.  My hope is that some of these responses will be of help to Shad. 

 

 

 

 

It is not so difficult. You just have to have already experienced what he is describing. It does not require special powers of intuition. When you find your way home at night it is not a miracle, just a road you are accustomed to. If you are just a little accomplished in formal sitting practices these states are very well known for what they are. The OP did a very good job of describing what they are experiencing and it is most assuredly not depression.  

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Oh Im pretty sure the people responding as well as the OP are well aware of the seriousness of the state.

 

I am curious though why you are of the opinion that being present in the now and being mindfull is somehow harmful. 

 

I too have become curious  ....    how on earth did you form your opinion that I formed the opinion   that  " being present in the now and being mindfull is somehow harmful. "  ?

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, s1va said:

 

I would agree with you part of the way, in the sense, it can be harmful for a person  who is depressed to engage in activities that takes the person further inwards such as meditation practices.  This is why I said in one of my early posts, self inquiry is not helpful in such cases and can amplify the problem.  When they are severely depressed, as in the examples you gave, outward activities that lead to action are more important than activities that turn the person inwards.  

 

Ummm       ...     yeah .  

 

I guess my gist was in my first post.

 

5 hours ago, s1va said:

 

But trying to be mindful and to stay present is a whole different thing.  In fact I see that as the true solution.   It can be practiced while engaged in activities.  There can be no depression when someone is fully present.

 

 

I said it is not the remedy I recommend.  A question I would further ask, if I  DID recommend this remedy dos the recomendee have the same understanding of what being present in the now and being mindfull  means , and what those practices actually are , as the recommender does ?

 

Anywayz,   I wasnt actually talkin to youze guys I was talking to the guy I quoted in the little box in my post box above the bit I wrote .

 

I have said it before, and I will says it agin

 

Youze guys !   

 

 

 

 

 

[Pilgrim]

6 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

I too have become curious  ....    how on earth did you form your opinion that I formed the opinion   that  " being present in the now and being mindfull is somehow harmful. "  ?

[Pilgrim]

Thanks for clarifying your position.  

 

Suggestion Nungali if you do not want people in an open forum to respond to you.

 

Drop the in quotes game when you dislike the way a reply makes you feel and directly address the person and just say I only want your reply, Nungali, you know, by name Nungali. Better yet just send them a Private Message.

 

BTW if someone would like to address this reply feel free it is an open forum.

 

Whats with all the sensitivity lately with different people bitching about I wasn't talking to you to other members? 

 

Nungali isnt the only one who does it.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Pilgrim

[Marblehead]

3 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

Whats with all the sensitivity lately

It's American politics.  Everyone wants to be King or Queen.  Some can't even make up their mind what they want to be.

 

To  hell with reality - it's a dream world now.

 

[Pilgrim]

5 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

It's American politics.  Everyone wants to be King or Queen.  Some can't even make up their mind what they want to be.

 

To  hell with reality - it's a dream world now.

 

Sure seems that way Marblehead.

 

Dear OP on a phone now will add some content later for you and anyone else that may benifit.

[Pilgrim]

Good Morning Shad282,

 

Hmmm It is difficult to know where to start. By nature, not nurture nor indoctrination I am Tantric and inclined towards Vedic practices.

 

It has been discussed here that self inquiry should be avoided in the stage you have expressed as it could potentially lead to depression.

 

In this case I agree.

 

Self inquiry is not suitable for most people. Self Inquiry such as Who AM I, Who is this I who thinks these thoughts for every thought that comes up is for those who are very ripe for this type of practice. My advice avoid it for now.

 

Self Inquiry is not the same thing as practicing mindfulness and being more present there is however a danger even with this. More on this later. 

 

It has been discussed that being present practicing mindfulness may not be understood. Mindfulness links can be provided all over the internet and I do not believe you need educated to what it means, as you already know. I will however discuss this and offer ways and means.

 

In an earlier post I strongly advised the practices of the 9 breaths and TSA Lung. I also advised indirectly to learn from the Lama presenting these practices. He in my opinion will be excellent for you in the place you have expressed you are coming from. This Lama Tenzin Rinpche adjusts the BON tradition for the Western Audience and addresses directly the Emotional and Mental bodies in his teachings. He is quite entertaining at times and a very great teacher for humanity.

 

I also recommend The following book.  Awakening the Sacred Body by the same Lama,  it can be found on Amazon. From this you will learn more in-depth the practices of TSA LUNG there are three levels to each practice from the most obvious to the subtle. Truly a priceless publication.

 

To be perfectly clear I do not advise anyone practice Zazen without first learning how to control the currents in the spine, otherwise when you reach the still point you are going to find a reservoir of energy waiting to express through you.

 

This energy is not dumb.

 

This energy is not just electricity.

 

The nerves of your meat and bone body will interpret it as electricity, sensations of heat and cold, and yes extreme orgasmic bliss.

 

Orgasmic bliss can and will  be experienced and not just in your genitals but even in your fingers and in a body that is not made of meat and bone.

 

Your brain will receive pleasure such as you may or may not have ever experienced in your life. The Tantric path is the path of using ones own facility to enjoy / experience pleasure and bliss and transform through it.

 

Stodgy misinformed people like to suffer, they think it somehow is what it is all about. These are crazy people, ignore them.

 

I have read all manner of silliness about people withholding ejaculation and sexual expression for fear of loosing their chi etc... They are not wrong,  but they are ignorant. It is just as easy to replenish as it is to deplete through release and both are good.

 

One needs to learn how to replenish. The practices of Tsa Lung will accomplish this.

 

One needs to release as often as is needed which is simple to determine. When the mind and emotions become coarse and the genitals overly sensitive it is time,  let the body release, this is not the time to clamp down and refuse the body it's need to do so as this becomes torture to the body which in turn causes torture in the emotions and the mind and leads to all sorts of disfunction.

 

There is ample medical documentation proving release is healthy for the female and male body.

 

I have read so much where the female is condemned either directly or indirectly, have read of people accusing females of being responsible for their own arousal response to the presence of a energetically aware and powerful female even on a forum "She made me Leak" Ohhh bad female it's all your fault!! Give me a freaking break and please do take responsibility for your own sharing of presence is my reply to that.

 

Unfortunately the ability to share presence often develops before the maturity level to interact or not and morality of compassion is fully developed.  This is not all peoples fault,  it is largely due to a direct lack of education and mentoring and is pleasurable until  harm is done to others. Spiritual puberty,  awakening to the more refined realms of interaction or sharing space  is not so very easy and many get stuck at this strata for a long, long, time. 

 

Oh well to each there own,  in there own good time, no matter how badly anyone wants to remain in a certain strata there is a certain movement towards the ever more refined that can not be stopped, it can be slow as the movement of a glacier but also as unstoppable.  At other times it can also be a Avalanche and this must be prepared for.

 

This energy  is transformative and it can and will change the very bedrock of your emotional and mental bodies. You will still be you with all your attributes, preferences etc. and so on but gradually over time the you, you are, will change.

 

I have said all I care to say about energy, bliss and transformation for the moment, now I would like to return to the topic of being mindful and present in the eternal everlasting moment which is the now. Before doing so however please do understand that even such apparently simple practices can lead to the still point, the atom point and there, ah there, their be dragons.

 

Remember always the energy flows from the stillness, the spaciousness, the silence. Prepare as I have described above with examples of this fine teacher and his publications. Kriya is another path but it is not suitable for everyone as it is very direct and condensed and one really needs to be able to reach the still point and move energy in order to effectively practice it. Still one may prepare as the practices lead to the still point as everything does. Prepare, Prepare, Prepare till the soil to grow a good crop.

 

Zazen the word means sitting Zen. What Zen means can be debated until the cows come home. It has much in common with the highest teaching of Dzog Chen.

 

Zen also is about being here now, totally, completely in the moment. If you have read these words you are already out of the moment. It is that simple, that profound, that difficult and at the same time that easy.

 

Be here now in every precious ruby like moment. Imagine the ticking of the second hand of a clock or a watch. As that needle moves that moment has passed.

 

If a person will do their very best to be here present 100% in each and every moment as we divide it into seconds and further down into pico seconds one will swiftly discover all of ones life is here right now in this moment, moment after moment and this is the reality of ones existence.

 

Past is memory and an illusion, the present has already passed with the typing of these words, the future mostly imagination and projections. So where in do we live? What is real? This very moment and in reading these words you have lost the moment.

 

Everything is available right here right now in this moment. Moment after moment. Each moment is pregnant with possibility. In this moment there is joy, there is happiness, there is bliss.  You determine your reality by being present in this moment. 

 

Being present to the best of ones ability does not require strain, at first it may require some remembering to do so, but my goodness what a burden and how will you accomplish anything like earning a living to pay for your housing, your food your cloths?

 

Well most of us are not monks so we need a way that takes care of this for us until, until it becomes our natural way of living.

 

What the OP is experiencing is not depression. What he is experiencing is the birth of the witness, the ever abiding witness and this is a difficult time.

 

Mindfulness is the only way,  the way to progress and grow comfortable with being the witness as it can lead one to feeling disconnected. One needs Formal Seated practices that will make this comfortable and automatic and then one needs to learn to let go and not resist, Ha, Ha , ha how brilliant we all are if we just let go and let the stream carry us and ask what do I need to do next and simply just do it.

 

Even the monks perform formal seated practices to prepare. Forcing mindfulness is not mindfulness, it is neurotic misunderstanding in action.

 

Formal seated practices are what is needed. Practice 1/2 hour to 1 hour per day. This is enough.

 

When I practiced Zazen which is mindfulness seated there was a simple practice of counting to 10 while inhaling and exhaling eyes half open with a blank wall in front of you Half lotus or lotus posture or Burmese posture park your ass on the cushion (Zafu and Zabuton) and find the still point where mind ceases for prolonged periods of time. Finding the still point  is done by Counting 1 then 2 then 3 and then loosing the words and seeing the numbers, and then feeling the impulse behind the numbers, and then lingering on the impulse alone and mind seeks the root the depths and then... and then... the still point and you will return not knowing where you just were, if you are inhaling or exhaling, what number you were on what stage of life you are in Am I a child, Am I in my twenties or my 30's or my 40's Am I an 90 year old remembering his life?  It can happen in a split second and then.... and then... the illusion of time is reveled as much time will have passed as you were in Samadhi.

 

This sounds frightening and when it first happens you wonder if you should be afraid but there is a assurance this is good and right and something from beyond returns with you. That something is recognition of you own existence in different realms concurrently with the limited human life you are now experiencing and the human is growing from this.

 

Many think the direction is away from being human but this is not quite correct we came here to be human and become human and to bring our humanity into our dimensions of being which have nothing to do with humanity. We are God becoming Human and Human becoming God. Then and only then when our humanity has something to do with the other dimensions of our being are we fulfilling the evolutionary process. We are already whole and complete but we are unaware. To decide I am aware is not enough.

 

Great gouts of energy can accompany the returns from samadhi and in time proceed it and bliss will lead one into samadhi.

 

There is a danger here when the mind ceases the witness is open to naked reality.

 

We as human beings are not so good at dealing with naked reality all at once because we live in a very narrow protected stratum that has its own set of checks and balances to prevent sensory overload and incapacitation while in this form of meat and bone.

 

Once the mind is brought to a place of one pointedness the barriers to the wider reality are lowered or dilate to a more open view. The wider reality is always present it is not dependent upon the one perceiving it.

 

This is where practice such as TSA LUNG the 9 Breaths and the accompanying psychological work dealing with direct impulses the Tibetan way need to be performed.

 

One needs to prepare the soil of ones own being before going extra sensory. When the time comes with the dawning of the witness there is no choice but to move forwards wher you are now is not comfortable. It Hurts.

 

People come to what is coined spirituality and websites like this because there is a need in some cases like the OP they are desperately seeking guidance. 

 

Why?

 

Because something has changed, Because it is painful to be in the place they are currently occupying. Pain is not avoidable, suffering is optional.

 

Pain is a good friend,  we hate.

 

It surprises us and it wakes us up.

 

Pain forces us out of our comfort zone and onto broader vistas of existence, we hate change, we hate pain.

 

We love finding a nice fuzzy warm niche with a fire on a cold rainy day a refuge a shelter. This is good.

 

Occupied too long and the warren begins to stink, our bones begin to ache with inactivity and our minds become unhappy. We need to learn to enter our inner refuge.

 

Change is needed.

 

Those who came before us and created systems like BON, like Kriya figured out long ago how to be in a constant state of change of progression how to be present now without discomfort or forcing oneself to the exclusion of taking care of ones duties to life like doing the laundry, working, earning a paycheck.

 

BON is a monastic tradition

 

Kriya is a tradition for the working people or house holders.

 

BON has very good practices it is very deep and wide and all encompassing for every level of incarnating humanity that has reached the stage of progression or those on the cusp often curiosity and grasping is the hallmark.

 

Bon is impossible to practice in its entirety unless you are a monk and maybe not even then. Most people will find the parts that work and adopt them.

 

Kriya was developed from monastic practices for the working people. The practices are completely scalable to the individuals ability and time to practice. They are very potent and direct for this very reason.

 

Effective practices will lead one to the state of being more present in the moment in ones daily life and much more at ease it is a by product.

 

The most important thig is two fold.

 

One must learn how to channel energy even if at first it is just imagination. Mind, visualization in meditation practices influences the subtle emotional and mental bodies, these are the conduits for the wider reality and the pipes need to be clean and clear of mental and emotional forms which clog them. Not 100% just enough the practices will cause them to release and the person should know with the release there can be acute pain of emotions and mind. This then needs to be accompanied by the practice of entering into ones inner refuge and spaciousness cessation of hate in stillness and spaciousness allows love to grow. You need that spaciousness where hate was occupying freed up then love flowers. This I have learned from Tinzen Rinpoche.

 

One must then learn or even at the same time to enter into stillness, openness, spaciousness within. This is not an absolute!!! No not at all. Some very bad teachers forget to point this out!

 

You just need a little. A dab will do ya!

 

When the stillness is enough, when the silence is enough, when the spaciousness is enough then the energy is going to flow. It must! It is inevitable.

 

Then...………… and Then...………………….   Your mind, and the deeper witness is going to ride the winds of bliss, mind is going to be stunned in exalted  glories that have nothing to do with this mundane world...…….. Then you are becoming aware of the larger reality which has always been, independent and ever present. 

 

The troublesome mind which has caused oh so many feelings will become one with this divine expression of the universe unknown to all save those who know it.

 

In this time one needs to know how to focus and channel the bliss otherwise it is going to hurt the meat body. One needs to have prepared and purified the channels sufficiently not perfectly not shiny like a mirror just enough to avoid injury is good.

 

One then can practice Kriya effectively. 

 

I have already said too much. So much of this must be experienced by doing to validate the reality words only scrape at.

 

During the day.....

 

The after effect, the after effect is the natural abiding in the present in the now, with a degree of ease and comfort and no it is not perfect for the most advanced it becomes so,  but for the rest of us in degrees and it is good.

 

Prepare, Prepare, Prepare and park your butt on the cushion this is the way.

 

Yes there are difficulties. Yes you will go through very, very serious life changes.

 

I most certainly have, In the last year I divorced my wife of many years as we had grown apart and incompatible, lost my house, lost my pets, lost a great deal of money and had to fight with lawyers in a ridiculous case where no children were involved and the former wife is financially independent.

 

I had no choice, my changes were such. Yes I had created a comfortable Den but it began to stink, and my bones were aching, there was pain and suffering, there has been change.

 

I have gained so much more in return by being true to myself. Suffering did happen but it was conditional and has passed and the trauma of a divorce is decreasing daily,  to stay as I was it was perpetual.  

 

Change is inevitable

 

Pain is inevitable 

 

Suffering is optional especially when there are skillful ways and means available to all.