Marblehead Posted September 20, 2018 Yes, my life is comfy. But I worked my ass off in order for it to be this way. But yes, back on topic. Pain is a part of physical life. Suffering is a part of an individual's mental state. In other words, we can release our attachment to suffering whenever we decide to do so. But the cause of pain has to be fixed, most often by someone else. And true, there are many who have little but they do not suffer because of it while there are many how have much but continually suffer because they are always wanting more. Pain is physical (in the most part) whereas suffering is mental. Jesus knew this. Buddha knew this. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted September 21, 2018 On 9/18/2018 at 12:03 PM, windwalker said: Nice picture, The White Horse Temple on Wudang have you been there? Living in a closed society is very different then living in the dust of the world of suffering. Hours of Kung Fu a day and the kids go through the hardest training ever, that could seem like very real suffering then the master completes the task with no effort at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windwalker Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said: Nice picture, The White Horse Temple on Wudang have you been there? Living in a closed society is very different then living in the dust of the world of suffering. Hours of Kung Fu a day and the kids go through the hardest training ever, that could seem like very real suffering then the master completes the task with no effort at all. No, I've been to some of the temples in beijing. Most of my time there was spent training,,some 6hrs a day...didn't leave much time for traveling We can talk about what is the "hardest training ever" and what it means.... Am I to understand you that you feel hardships vlonentary endured with an end goal in mind are hardships ? Would that same master be able to complete another task that he had never done before with out training for it? I would posit that those choosing these paths do so because it also chooses them they are following something from the inside not something that is being imposed on them from the outside... When I was teaching CMA in the US often those I worked with would asked to be trained like I trained in my younger days and those I trained with in China, Korea, and other places. They couldn't do it....its the same for those feeling they train in a way that makes their MA functional...often they really dont understand the requirements to make it so.. Edited September 22, 2018 by windwalker 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 22, 2018 9 hours ago, windwalker said: ..often they really dont understand the requirements to make it so.. Maybe they just haven't learned how to suffer yet? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted September 22, 2018 8 hours ago, Marblehead said: Maybe they just haven't learned how to suffer yet? That is the point I was making. Suffering can also be a good thing. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 22, 2018 18 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said: Suffering can also be a good thing. I wasn't expecting a response like that but I can't argue against it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted September 22, 2018 We could derail the whole thread and discuss how suffering is a good thing and how it can lead to something amazing, 4 hours ago, Marblehead said: I wasn't expecting a response like that but I can't argue against it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said: We could derail the whole thread and discuss how suffering is a good thing and how it can lead to something amazing, Well, I think the thread has served its purpose and was already taken off topic earlier. I have no idea what I am going to say if we do go this route. I'm sure something will come to mind after you have made a first post. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted September 22, 2018 This thread is suffering I agree. Now I can see the pain that is possible. There was good times and great moments then just like that all gone. To live with out this thread is a heartbreak like no other. I will need to suffer for a while, while I come to terms with all that happens and passes 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 22, 2018 Yeah, but we need to keep the thread active. You know how much our Buddhist friends love to suffer. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windwalker Posted September 23, 2018 30 minutes ago, Marblehead said: Yeah, but we need to keep the thread active. You know how much our Buddhist friends love to suffer. Most spiritual disciplines have this idea. Like being nailed to a cross. That's gotta hurt 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, windwalker said: Most spiritual disciplines have this idea. Like being nailed to a cross. That's gotta hurt Yes. That had to hurt. I'm sure the pain led to suffering. And who are those folks who beat themselves into submission? Strange. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windwalker Posted September 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, Marblehead said: And who are those folks who beat themselves into submission? Strange. "Flagellation, in religion, the disciplinary or devotional practice of beating with whips. ... In the early Christian church, self-flagellation was apparently imposed as punishment and as a means of penance for disobedient clergy and laity." not my thing. Although in CMA and in the military depending on service we do and did push the body to its extreme limits. Used to do a lot of conditioning against inanimate objects trees bags rocks Etc. In my old age I sometimes wonder about the effects of such practices when I was young. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, windwalker said: "Flagellation, in religion, the disciplinary or devotional practice of beating with whips. ... In the early Christian church, self-flagellation was apparently imposed as punishment and as a means of penance for disobedient clergy and laity." Yes, that's it. Silly. 5 minutes ago, windwalker said: not my thing. Although in CMA and in the military depending on service we do and did push the body to its extreme limits. Used to do a lot of conditioning against inanimate objects trees bags rocks Etc. In my old age I sometimes wonder about the effects of such practices when I was young. Yeah, I experienced some of those trying times too. I seem to have forgotten nearly all of them now though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windwalker Posted September 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, Marblehead said: Yes, that's it. Silly. I don't think so. If one takes the time to study and read about it there is a methodology and science behind it. People can talk about human beings as tripartite beings in an academic way. It takes a lot to understand this as part of one's reality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, windwalker said: I don't think so. If one takes the time to study and read about it there is a methodology and science behind it. People can talk about human beings as tripartite beings in an academic way. It takes a lot to understand this as part of one's reality. Well, believe me, it's never going to be a part of my reality. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windwalker Posted September 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, Marblehead said: Well, believe me, it's never going to be a part of my reality. Hahaha,. Maybe you went through it and just don't remember you repressed it. You don't remember the time the place the year or even the event you just know something happened. Ya might need a therapist to help you remember it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 23, 2018 9 hours ago, windwalker said: Hahaha,. Maybe you went through it and just don't remember you repressed it. You don't remember the time the place the year or even the event you just know something happened. Ya might need a therapist to help you remember it. Why the fuck would I want to remember something that causes me depression. No, I'm not into suffering. I will endure the pain but I'm not going to suffer over it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windwalker Posted September 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, Marblehead said: Why the fuck would I want to remember something that causes me depression. No, I'm not into suffering. I will endure the pain but I'm not going to suffer over it. Mmm I can see you didn't get the joke. It was supposed to be analogous to what is going on now with the alleged events against the judge nomination for Supreme Court. What you or anyone remembers or feels they have went through in life is up to themselves. I really don't give a fuck, about what you remember or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, windwalker said: Mmm I can see you didn't get the joke. I tried. Didn't work. I had to make sure we had no misunderstandings. 7 minutes ago, windwalker said: It was supposed to be analogous to what is going on now with the alleged events against the judge nomination for Supreme Court. I didn't even pick up on that. I left those two discussions, you know. I think that what is going on is stupid and I don't want to have any part of it any more. 7 minutes ago, windwalker said: What you or anyone remembers or feels they have went through in life is up to themselves. Exactly. We can and some of us do create our own subjective reality. 7 minutes ago, windwalker said: I really don't give a fuck, about what you remember or not. Thanks. I don't care too much for people telling me what is wrong with me and what I should be doing in order to correct my short-comings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windwalker Posted September 23, 2018 On 9/17/2018 at 7:11 AM, ankhmor said: There is a world of people born into the most dire circumstances. Take the millions that live in slums. What is that? A little different question then the title "How does suffering come to be" The answers will tend to reflect on ones life experiences and what ever path they follow... In most cases any living thing is set up so that it seeks the best environment for it, consciously or unconsciously. Some displins try to escape this....some start off by understanding that with out a body to interact with this world there is nothing to feel either way.....getting to understand this point is what a lot of displins are built around... Essential its the fear of death that most have to come to terms with.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windwalker Posted September 23, 2018 Just now, Marblehead said: Thanks. I don't care too much for people telling me what is wrong with me and what I should be doing in order to correct my short-comings. dont care much for the tone.... if you did get it, you didnt get it... anyway,,,later yep whats going on now is stupid, and dangerous with the Supreme Court nomination 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 23, 2018 Okay. Let's get back to suffering. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windwalker Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) On 9/17/2018 at 7:11 AM, ankhmor said: There is a world of people born into the most dire circumstances. Take the millions that live in slums. What is that? It may be hard to understand but depending on belief system its a choice. One made before birth,,,,one that can be changed after birth....or in some cases its thought by Quote The reincarnation concept is considered in Indian religions as a step that starts each "cycle of aimless drifting, wandering or mundane existence",[2] but one that is an opportunity to seek spiritual liberation through ethical living and a variety of meditative, yogic (marga), or other spiritual practices.[23][24] They consider the release from the cycle of reincarnations as the ultimate spiritual goal, Even in western religions this concept is expressed although in a different way. In this case its not a choice but a state that one is born into.... Quote In a child original sin is distinct from the fault of Adam, it is one of its effects. The effects of Adam's sin according to the Catholic Encyclopedia are: Death and Suffering. Concupiscence or Inclination to sin. Baptism erases original sin but the inclination to sin remains. The absence of sanctifying grace in the new-born child is also an effect of the first sin, for Adam, having received holiness and justice from God, lost it not only for himself but also for us. Baptism confers original sanctifying grace, lost through the Adam's sin, thus eliminating original sin and any personal sin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin In answer to your question about why this is so depends on the lens that it is viewed through. I follow and have followed what some might call an eastern approach that does not follow any one line of thought. not something I choose but some thing within that calls.... Edited September 23, 2018 by windwalker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windwalker Posted September 23, 2018 16 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said: That is the point I was making. Suffering can also be a good thing. is it if one chooses it ? Quote Suffering, or pain in a broad sense,[1] may be an experience of unpleasantness and aversion associated with the perception of harm or threat of harm in an individual.[2] Suffering is the basic element that makes up the negative valence of affective phenomena. The opposite of suffering is pleasure or happiness. If one seeks and chooses what others may feel is unpleasant, painful or what ever is it still suffering. In some practices there is a need to separate the mind from the body. this can be done in many ways one of which is enduring rituals that are designed to show ones ability over ones body.... Quote In a remote Buddhist monastery in Northern India, a group of monks sit calmly, lightly dressed and unaffected by the shockingly low temperatures of their surroundings (40 degrees Fahrenheit / 4 degrees Celcius). They are then draped with ice-cold, wet sheets of fabric. In conditions that would not only cause the average person to shiver uncontrollably, but could even result in death, the monks remain unperturbed. https://www.buzzworthy.com/monks-raise-body-temperature/ In order to do this they have to endure a lot of training that if it was forced on them they probably couldn't do it. They have a different concept then those who live out side their culture....different not better. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
