Continuous samadhi interrupted by thoughts

[whitesilk]

such as this interess fluidly may achieve a conclusion, if stopping the interruption is your concern, how would you think it out?

 

If you live an external life, and are conflicted between wanting this or wanting that, imo, the conflict itself is the corruption of thought.

 

Our neurons are like light switches that are stimulated to be on or off, all 200 billion of them. So thinking is okay with suchness, being or samadi. I do wish to keep a few of my light switches working. (hyperbole)

Edited September 18, 2018 by whitesilk

[dwai]

8 minutes ago, whitesilk said:

such as this interess fluidly may achieve a conclusion, if stopping the interruption is your concern, how would you think it out?

 

If you live an external life, and are conflicted between wanting this or wanting that, imo, the conflict itself is the corruption of thought.

 

Our neurons are like light switches that are stimulated to be on or off, all 200 billion of them. So thinking is okay with suchness, being or samadi. I do wish to keep a few of my light switches working. (hyperbole)

Why do we need to attach to the light switches once they’re operating?

 

How much does one need to think about the usual stuff that people obsess over on a daily basis anyway? 

 

Most of the mental agitations are neuroses brought about by repeated trauma (of obsessive thinking).  

 

Samadhi nature will not leave us useless but profoundly more creative, spontaneous and free. 

[whitesilk]

Say a gardener is told he has free reign to create to most beautiful race track.

 

Now, a race car driver is told that he has free reign over the gardens.

 

What is the result?

 

The only part of my statement that you failed to see is that the inability to make choice causes the interruption your suchness, being, or samadi.

 

11 minutes ago, dwai said:

Why do we need to attach to the light switches once they’re operating?

 

I am in agreement. To cling is to lose it. Perhaps?

 

 

11 minutes ago, dwai said:

 

How much does one need to think about the usual stuff that people obsess over on a daily basis anyway? 

 

Um or Aum?

 

[dwai]

9 minutes ago, whitesilk said:

Say a gardener is told he has free reign to create to most beautiful race track.

 

Now, a race car driver is told that he has free reign over the gardens.

 

What is the result?

 

The only part of my statement that you failed to see is that the inability to make choice causes the interruption your suchness, being, or samadi.

 

Making choices won’t interrupt samadhi. Not being able to make it will. If you want to turn on the lights, turn it on. If you want to turn it off, turn it off. Being caught in analysis paralysis is what neurotic thinking is. 

9 minutes ago, whitesilk said:

 

I am in agreement. To cling is to lose it. Perhaps?

 

 

 

Um or Aum?

 

Yes clinging imho is wrong. And once we shed one level of clinging we find deeper and deeper levels progressively. The first step is recognizing that samadhi. That puts things into perspective imho .

[whitesilk]

So why do our Aerospace engineers waste our fossil fuels? That is a question that I cannot answer myself. If you might like to ask that question to an aerospace engineer for me, I would appreciate it.

[dwai]

Quote

1. Dattatreya continued: “Thus pure intelligence, free from objective knowledge, has been proved to exist; it can be felt on many occasions in ordinary life.

 

2. “However, it goes undetected because people are in the meshes of Mâyâ and not conversant with it. Alertness alone will reveal it.

 

3-5. “Why say so much about it? The long and short of it is this. Objective knowledge is gained by the mind; the mind cannot be objectified. Still it follows that there must be mind even in the absence of objects. Such pure mind entirely divested of all objective knowledge (or thoughts) is pure intelligence. Awareness is its nature. Therefore it is always realized, for no other knower beside itself can ever be admitted.

 

6-7. “Do you think, O Bhargava, that the Self is not aware when objects are seen? If not aware, the Self cannot be. If the Self is not, how can you raise this question! Can you seek any good for yourself if the Self be a myth like a flower in the sky? How can I establish the Self for you? Consider and tell me.

 

8-9. “Or do you mean to say that there is ordinarily an awareness of the Self but it cannot be particularised? If so, know it to be the unending awareness which is perpetually existing. That is your Self. The Self is free from particulars. How strange that knowing it, you are still ignorant!

 

10. “At the time of cognising of an object, the pure intellect assumes its shape and manifests as such. Of itself it is pure and has no form. Objective knowledge is thus a particularised section of pure intelligence. The Self is ever-shining, unparticularised, unblemished, ordinary existence—self-aware and selfsufficient.

 

11-13. “If you say that the body, etc., usually appear as the Self, I tell you that they are only the play of thoughts and nothing more. For, think well and observe carefully. When you see a pot, are you aware that it is your Self like the body? (No, your body is no less a thought and appearance in consciousness, than the pot.) Then why should the body alone be confused with the Self? “If you argue that there is no harm or mistake in identifying the body with the Self, because it is no worse than glorifying a part instead of the whole. I tell you: Do not confine such glorification to one part only to the exclusion of all others. Extend it right through and glorify the whole universe as the Self.

 

14. “In that case, there will be no confusion of the object with the subject, and you will always remain as the subject.

 

15. “For the Self is always self-resplendent and one without a second, and it displays diversities of phenomena as a mirror its reflections.

 

16. “Therefore rule out creation as a mere thought or series of thoughts and realize the non-dual, residual, pure intelligence as the Self.

 

17. “If the body and creation are transcended and the Self realized even once, there ensues that wisdom which will eradicate ignorance and override the cycle of births and deaths.

 

18. “Moksha (liberation) is not to be sought in heavens or on earth or in the nether regions. It is synonymous with SelfRealization.

 

19. “Moksha is not any thing to be got afresh for it is already there, only to be realized. Such realization arises with the elimination of ignorance. Absolutely nothing more is required to achieve the aim of life.

 

20. “Moksha must not be thought to be different from the Self. If it is a thing to be acquired, its absence before attainment is implied. If it can be absent even once why should not its absence recur? The moksha will be found to be impermanent and so not worth while striving for. “Again if it can be acquired, acquisition implies non-self. What is non-self is only a myth like a hare growin horns. Note: Sri Ramana says that moksha is another name for ‘I’ or ‘Self.’

 

21. “The Self is on the other hand all-round Perfection. So where else can moksha be located? If it were so, moksha would be like a reflection in a mirror.

 

22-27. “Even the popular idea is that moksha is release from bondage, meaning destruction of ignorance. Ignorance is itself a form of thought: destruction is its absence; to bring about its absence is only another form of thought. So then on investigation the whole statement gets involved and becomes meaningless. For a thought cannot be destroyed and be a thought still. Dream is said to be real as well as unreal (in experience and in substance, respectively). Really speaking, dream too is not unreal. For, what is unreality? Impermanency. This again is recognised by the thought of the non-continuity of the dream, which implies the thought content to be dream. Is it truly noncontinuous then? The intellect being always continuous, there cannot be a moment of the non-existence of anything. So then, even at the moment of thinking the absence of a thing, that thing really exists in the mind and so it is real and not unreal. All objects are, however, non-existent when not contemplated by the mind. But reality is determined by the being or nonbeing which cannot be ascertained by the mind because its denial implies the formation of the mental image of the denied thing and it is absurd to deny its existence. In the absence of denial, the thing must be and so everything is. “Thus the existence of pure intelligence is proved by its manifestation, as all else, and thus moksha cannot be exterior to the Self, anything to be gathered, acquired or assimilated.

 

28. “Moksha is defined as the steady glow of the Self in perfection. (The question arises whether the Self is imperfect at one time, i.e., in ignorance and perfect at another time, i.e., in moksha.) The non-modification of abstract intelligence into the objective phenomena is said to be the state of perfection. (So there is no contradiction.)

 

29. “Abstract Intelligence contracts at the stimuli to modification and becomes limited. Otherwise, it is infinite and unbroken.

 

30. “If you mean to suggest that such intelligence is broken up into segments by time, etc.—tell me whether the disintegrating influences are within the Self or without.

 

31-32. “If beyond consciousness, they cannot be proved to exist; if within, consciousness pervades them and is not divided. The breaking up at intervals as seen in the world is perceived by consciousness as events (the broken parts) and time (the disintegrator), both of which are pervaded by consciousness. The consciousness is itself the time and the events.

 

33-34. “If time be not pervaded by consciousness, how do intervals become evident? In the universal pervasiveness of consciousness, how is it to be considered broken up? Breaking up must be brought about by the agency of something external. But anything beyond the pale of consciousness cannot be even maintained or discussed.

 

35. “Nor can it be granted the disintegrating factor is made visible by its effects of division, while it still evades intelligence, in its entirety. For that is to say that it exists so far as its effect is concerned and does not exist in other ways—which is absurd. 36. “Therefore even the concept of exterior must lie within the bounds of consciousness (cf., avyakt a in sleep or exterior in the scheme of creation). Similarly, all that is known and knowable must also lie within.

 

37. “In view of this conclusion, how can the container be split up by the contained? Investigate the truth on these lines, Rama!

 

38-41. “Being within, the universe cannot be different from consciousness. For you know that two things cannot co-exist within the same limits. If they do, intermingling is the result. However, the universe maintains its distinctness because it is like a reflection in the mirror of consciousness. “As regards the appearance of avyakta, or exterior in the scheme of creation which was traced to the root-cause of ignorance, how can manifestation in it be real? Their reality must be associated with the fact of their being of the nature of Consciousness, i.e., the Self. It is therefore proper to conclude that the Self is alone and single and there is nothing beyond.” When Dattatreya had finished, Parasurâma asked further:

 

42-43. “O Lord, I find it difficult to follow your reasoning when you say that Abstract Intelligence, being only one, yet manifests as the diverse objects of creation. The two entities, the cogniser and the cognised object, are distinct and separate. Of these, the cogniser, namely consciousness, may be self-luminous illumining the objects.

 

44. “Just as objects stand apart from light so the universe seems apart from the Intelligent Principle.

 

45. “Experience does not reveal the identity of the two. Furthermore, you are confirming the statement of Janaka as regards samâdhi.

 

46. “Janaka has said: ‘Mind divested of thoughts becomes pure and is identical with the Self and further, that alone destroys ignorance.’

 

47. “How can that be the Self? Mind is always taken to be a faculty with which the Self functions in the supra-material planes.

 

48. “The Self would be no better than insentient but for the mind, which characterises it as different from the insentient world.

 

49. “Further, even the scriptures admit that liberation and bondage are only attitudes of the mind according as it is unmodified or modified, respectively.

 

50. “How can the mind be the Self as well as its faculty? Again, granting that the world is an image on the mirror of consciousness, the fact of its perfection is there, so the non-duality of consciousness does not follow.

 

51. “There are hallucinations known, like a rope mistaken for a serpent. Hallucination is not correct knowledge; but it does not end the duality attendant on its perception.

 

52. “Still again, unreal images cannot serve any useful purpose, whereas the universe is enduring and full of purpose.

 

53. “Tell me how you assert it to be unreal, thus establishing the non-duality of the Supreme. “Furthermore, if the world itself is unreal, how does that unreality happen to distinguish between fact and hallucination in the affairs of life.

 

54. “Still more, how does everybody happen to have the same hallucination of mistaking the unreal phenomena for reality. “All these doubts are troubling me. Please clear them for me.”

 

55. Dattatreya, the omniscient, heard these questions and was pleased with them. Then he proceeded to answer:

 

56. “You have done well, Parasurâma, to ask these questions although not for the first time. They must be examined until one is thoroughly convinced.

 

57. “How can the Guru himself anticipate all the doubts of the disciple unless he states them clearly? There are different grades of mind and different temperaments too.

 

58. “How can clear knowledge be gained if one’s doubts are not raised to be met? The student with an analytical turn of mind gains deep-seated knowledge. His questions help towards depth of knowledge.

 

59-61. “The unquestioning student is of no use. The earnest student is recognised by his questions. “Consciousness is one and non-dual, but shines as if diversified like the clean surface of a mirror reflecting variegated colors. “Note how the mind unmodified in sleep, remaining single and blank, is later modified by dream and manifests as the dream world. Similarly, the One Consciousness—Sri Tripura—flashes forth as the various phenomena of the universe.

 

62. “The cogniser and the cognised objects are seen in dream also. Even a blind man, without sight, perceives objects.

 

63. “How does he do so unless by mental perception? Can anything be known at any time or place in the absence of the light of the mind?

 

64. “There can be no images in the absence of a mirror, for the images are not apart from the mirror.

 

65. “Similarly, nothing is cognisable if it lies beyond the pale of the cognising principle. For the same reason I say that the mind cannot lie apart from intelligence in the abstract.

 

66. “Just as the cogniser, cognition and the cognised are identified with the mind in dream, so also the seer, the sight and the phenomena are identical with the mind in the wakeful state.

 

67-71. “Just as an axe was created in the dream for felling a tree, which is the thing for which it was designed, so is the mind said to be the faculty for giving perception. “But, Rama, the faculty can be only of the same degree of reality as the action itself. For was anyone injured at any time by a human horn? The action and the instrument must clearly be of the same degree of truth. Since the action itself is unreal, can the mind, the faculty, be real? So, Rama, there is no faculty known as the mind. Mind is only surmised for the location of the dream subject, dream vision and dream objects. Its reality is of the same order as that of a dream. “Pure intelligence is quite unblemished; mind and other faculties are mere fabrications for enabling transactions to continue, which, however go on because the Absolute is self-sufficient and manifests as subject and objects. The same is often pure and unqualified, as in the aforesaid momentary samâdhi. “I shall explain to you further:

 

72-79. “Absolute Consciousness and space resemble each other in being perfect, infinite, subtle, pure, unbounded, formless, immanent in all, yet undefiled within and without but space differs from the other, in being insentient. “In fact, the conscious Self is space. This being so, they are not different from one other. Space is Self; and Self is space. It is the ignorant who see the Self as space alone owing to their delusion, just as the owls find darkness in dazzling sunlight. The wise however find in space the Self, the Abstract Intelligence. “Her Transcendental Majesty, stainless and self-contained, irradiates diversity in Her Self like an individual in the state of dream. This diversity in the shape of men, animals and other phenomena, does not delude the Self in its purity, but does delude aberrations of the Self, namely, the individual egos.

 

80-81. “Her Majesty, the Absolute, remains always aware of Her Perfection and Oneness. Though Herself immutable, She appears mutable to Her own creatures just as a magician beguiles the audience with his tricks but remains himself undeceived.

 

82. “She is light—One without a second; and yet She appears divided to Her Own creatures, because of the veil of illusion.

 

83. “Just as the magician’s tricks delude the audience alone and not himself, so also the veiling of Mâyâ, affects the creatures and not the creator; when the individuals held in the meshes of Mâyâ, see diversity and also discuss Mâyâ.

 

84-85. “This Mâyâ is the dynamic aspect of the latent self-sufficiency of the Supreme and is unfailing. See how yogis, charmers and magicians remain confident and sure, without revealing themselves, and yet play upon the imagination of others seeking to achieve the impossible.

 

86. “Division in the Absolute amounts to contraction within particular limits under the guise of the ego which is usually termed imperfection, or ignorance.

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by dwai

[dwai]

With this I am informed that my kindle copy limit has been reached. I’d recommend that if you found this brief discussion useful, read the actual document. There’s only one translation of this powerful document available in English.

[dwai]

Quote

118-20. “Realization of the Self subdues the restless mind which is the dynamic aspect of consciousness. On this being subdued, there gleams out the peace-filled, perfect, intelligent bliss which is synonymous with emancipation. Be assured of this. Do not think that an interlude of blank or veil of nescience will supervene after the cessation of thoughts. For, there is no such factor as a blank or veil of nescience. It is simply a figment of the imagination.

 

[Spotless]

 

.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Spotless

[dwai]

Found a pdf version of the doc here — https://www.beezone.com/Ramana/tripura rahasya.pdf

[dwai]

On the three category of seekers 

 

Quote

1. After having heard Sri Dattatreya speask thus, Parasurama asked him further questions regarding the con- duct and activities of the Jnanis.
2-4. Lord, please tell me clearly how intellects differ according to the stages of jnana (wisdom). Is not wisdom of one kind alone, being simply the revelation of the Self? Moksha (emancipation) is the simple unfolding of the Self and is alone to be sought. How can it be dependent on stages of devel- opment according to mental predispositions? Do the methods also differ in the same way?
5. Thus asked again, Sri Datta, the Ocean of Mercy, began to answer his questions.
6. I shall now tell you the secret of it all. There is no difference in the methods, nor does jnana differ in fact.
7. The fruits differ according to the grades of accom- plishment. The same extends through several births and on its completion, jnana easily unfolds itself.
8. The degree of efforts is according to the stage of incompleteness brought over from past births. However, jnana is eternal and no effort is really needed.
9. Because it is already there and needs no accomplish- ment, jnana is pure intelligence, the same as consciousness which is ever self-radiant.
10-13. What kind of effort can avail to disclose the eternally self-resplendent consciousness? Being coated with a thick crust of infinite vasanas (dispositions), it is not easily perceived. The encrustation must first be soaked in the running steam of mind control and carefully scraped off with the sharp chisel of investigation. Then one must turn the closed urn of crystal quartz — namely, the mind cleaned in the aforesaid manner — on the grinding wheel of alertness and finally open the lid with the lever of discrimination.
Lo! The gem enclosed within is now reached and that is all!
Thus you see, Rama, that all efforts are to be directed to cleaning up the mental impressions of predispositions.
14-15. Intellects are the cumulative effects of the pre- dispositions acquired by karma. Effort is necessary so long as the predispositions continue to sway the intellect.
The dispositions are countless but I shall enumerate a few of the most important.
16. They are roughly classified into three groups, namely, (1) Aparadha (fault), (2) Karma (action) and (3) Kama (desire).
17-29. The disposition typical of the first group is diffidence towards the teachings of the Guru and the holy books, which is the surest way to degeneration. Misunderstanding of the teachings, due to assertiveness or pride is a phase of diffidence and stands in the way of realization for learned pandits and others.
Association with the wise and the study of holy books cannot remove this misunderstanding. They maintain that there is no reality transcending the world; even if there were, it cannot be known; if one claims to know it, it is an illusion of the mind; for how can knowledge make a person free from misery or help his emancipation? They have many more doubts and wrong notions. So much about the first group.
There are many more persons who cannot, however well-taught, grasp the teachings; their minds are too much cramped with predispositions to be susceptible to subtle truths. They form the second group — the victims of past actions, unable to enter the stage of contemplation necessary for annihilating the vasanas.
The third group is the most common, consisting of the victims of desire who are always obsessed with the sense of duty (i.e., the desire to work for some ends). Desires are too numerous to count, since they rise up endlessly like waves in the ocean. Even if the stars are numbered, desires are not. The desires of even a single individual are countless — and what about the totality of them? Each desire is too vast to be satisfied, because it is insatiable; too strong to be resisted; and too subtle to be eluded. So the world, being in the grip of this demon, behaves madly and groans with pain and misery, consequent on its own misdeeds. That person who is shielded by desirelessness (dispassion) and safe from the wiles of the monster of desire, can alone rise to happiness.

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by dwai

[dwai]

Quote

Association with the wise and the study of holy books cannot remove this misunderstanding. They maintain that there is no reality transcending the world; even if there were, it cannot be known; if one claims to know it, it is an illusion of the mind; for how can knowledge make a person free from misery or help his emancipation? They have many more doubts and wrong notions. So much about the first group.
There are many more persons who cannot, however well-taught, grasp the teachings; their minds are too much cramped with predispositions to be susceptible to subtle truths. They form the second group — the victims of past actions, unable to enter the stage of contemplation necessary for annihilating the vasanas.
The third group is the most common, consisting of the victims of desire who are always obsessed with the sense of duty (i.e., the desire to work for some ends). Desires are too numerous to count, since they rise up endlessly like waves in the ocean. Even if the stars are numbered, desires are not. The desires of even a single individual are countless — and what about the totality of them? Each desire is too vast to be satisfied, because it is insatiable; too strong to be resisted; and too subtle to be eluded. So the world, being in the grip of this demon, behaves madly and groans with pain and misery, consequent on its own misdeeds. That person who is shielded by desirelessness (dispassion) and safe from the wiles of the monster of desire, can alone rise to happiness.
A person affected by one or more of the aforesaid three dispositions cannot get at the truth although it is self-evident.
30-33. Therefore I tell you that all efforts are directed towards the eradication of these innate tendencies.

 

[dwai]

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The first of them (i.e., fault) comes to an end on respectfully placing one’s faith in holy books and the Master. The second (i.e., action) may be ended only by divine grace, which may descend on the person in this birth or in any later incarnation. There is no other hope for it. The third must be gradually dealt with by dispassion, discrimination, worship of God, study of holy scriptures, learning from the wise, investigation into the Self and so on.
34. Efforts to overcome these obstacles are more or less according as the obstacles are greater or lesser.
35-37. The most important of the qualifications is the desire for emancipation. Nothing can be achieved without it. Study of philosophy and discussion on the subject with others are thoroughly useless, being no better than the study of arts. For the matter of that, one might as well hope for salvation by a study of sculpture and the practice of that art. The study of philosophy in the absence of a longing for salvation, is like dressing up a corpse.
38-40. Again, Rama, a casual desire for emancipation is also vain. Such desire often manifests on learning of the magnificence of the emancipated state. It is common to all but never brings about any abiding results. Therefore a passing desire is worthless.
The desire must be strong and abiding, in order that it may bear fruit. The effects are in proportion to the intensity and duration of the desire.
41-43. The desire must be accompanied by efforts for the accomplishment of the purpose. Then only will there be concerted effort. Just as a man scalded by fire runs immediately in search of soothing unguents and does not waste his time in other pursuits, so also must the aspirant run after emancipation to the exclusion of all other pursuits. Such an effort is fruitful and is preceded by indifference to all other attainments.
44-46. Starting by discarding pleasures as being impediments to progress, he develops dispassion and then the desire for emancipation, which grows in strength. This makes a man engage in the right efforts in which he becomes thoroughly engrossed. After these stages are passed, the most unique consummation takes place.
When Dattatreya finished, Parasurama was com- pletely bewildered and asked him further:
47-49. Lord, You said earlier that association with the wise, divine grace and dispassion are the prime factors for attaining the highest aim of life. Please tell me which is the most essential and how it can be accomplished. For nothing happens without an antecedent cause. This is certain. What is the root cause of the fundamental requisite? Or is it only accidental?
50. Thus asked, Dattatreya answered him as follows:
I shall tell you the root-cause of it all. Listen!
51-61. Her Transcendental Majesty, the Absolute- Consciousness, being self-contained, originally pictured the whole universe in Her being, like images in a mirror. She took on the individuality, named Hiranyagarbha (the Creator), and considering the predispositions of the egos enclosed in that egg (Hiranyagarbha), She unfolded the scriptures — the reservoir of sublime truths — for the fulfilment of desires. Since the embryonic individuals were full of unfulfilled desires Hiranyagarbha began to think out the means of their fulfilment. He elaborated a scheme of cause and effect, of actions and fruits, and consequently the individuals were born later to revolve in that wheel of cause and effect. They take different shapes and are placed in different environments consistent with their pre- dispositions. After passing through innumerable species, the individual evolves as a human being, owing to the merit he has accumulated. At first he will take to selfish pursuits. With growing desire, he will seek the unob- structed fulfilment of mighty ambitions. But in due course the methods advocated in holy books will be adopted. Failures are inevitable everywhere. Disappointments result. Expert advice is sought. Such advice will be forthcoming only from a man living in unbroken beatitude. Such a Sage will, in due course, initiate the seeker in divine magnificence. The initiate’s accumulated merits, rein- forced by association with the wise and by divine grace, make him persist in the course, and gradually take him step by step to the highest pinnacle of happiness.
62-64. Now you see how association with the wise is said to be the root-cause of all that is good. This happens partly through the accumulated merits of the person and partly through his unselfish devotion to God, but always as if by accident, like a fruit which has suddenly fallen from the void. Therefore the goal of life being dependent on so many causes, there is variety in its attainment, either according to the intellect or the predispositions of the person. The state of the Jnani also differs, according as his efforts have been great or less.
65-66. Proportionately slight effort is enough for erasing slight vasanas. He whose mind has been made pure by good deeds in successive past incarnations, gains supreme results quite out of proportion to the little effort he may make (as with Janaka).
67-68. The glimpse of jnana (realisation) gained by one whose mind is crowded with dense vasanas accu- mulated in past incarnations, does not suffice to override one’s deep-rooted ignorance. Such a one is obliged to practise samadhi (nidhidhyasana or control of mind and contemplation) in successive births for effective and final realisation.

 

[dwai]

Now to describe the three category of sages (jnani) -

 

Quote

Thus there are seen to be different classes of Sages.
69. O Scion of Bhrighu’s lineage! There are apparent differences in the characteristics of Jnanis, caused by the aspects and attitudes of intellect and the varieties in its activities.
70-77. Such differences are quite obvious in Brahma (the Creator), Vishnu (the Preserver) and Siva (the Destroyer) who are Jnanis by nature. That does not mean that jnana (realisation) admits of variety. These attitudes depend on their vasanas (dispositions) and environments. They are Lords of the universe and all-knowing. Their jnana is pure and uncontaminated by what they do. Whether a Jnani is fair or dark in complexion, his jnana neither shares these qualities nor the qualities of the mind. See the difference in the three sons of Atri, namely, Durvasa (said to be of the aspect of Siva and reputed to be exceedingly irritable), Chandra (the moon, of the aspect of Brahma and reputed to be the husband of the twenty-seven constellations who are in their turn daughters of Daksa) and myself (Dattatreya, of the aspect of Sriman Narayana or Vishnu, reputed to be the ideal of saints, roaming nude in the forests, etc.). Vasishta (one of the greatest Rishis, well known as the family preceptor of the Solar line of kings) never fails in the strictest adherence to duty as prescribed by the scriptures; whereas Sanaka, Sananda, Sanatsujata and Sanatkumara (four sons born of Brahma’s volition and instructed by Narada) are types of ascetics totally indifferent to any action, including religious rites; Narada is the ideal of bhakti (devotion to God); Bhargava (Sukra, the well-known preceptor of Asuras, who incessantly fight against the gods) supports the enemies of the gods, whereas the equally great Sage Brihaspati (Jupiter, the preceptor of gods) supports the gods against their enemies; Vyasa is ever busy in codifying the Vedas, and in propagating their truth in the shape of the Mahabharata, the Puranas and the Upapuranas; Janaka famous as the ascetic-king; Jadabharata looking like an idiot; and many others.

—-x——
 79. Of the three typical vasanas mentioned, the one
of action is the most potent and is said to be ignorance.
80-83. Those are the best who are free from all of the vasanas, and particularly from the least trace of that of action. If free from the fault of mistrust of the teachings of the Master, the vasana due to desire, which is not a very serious obstruction to realisation, is destroyed by the practice of contemplation. Dispassion need not be very marked in this case. Such people need not repeatedly engage in the study of scriptures or the receiving of instructions from the Master, but straightaway pass into meditation and fall into samadhi, the consummation of the highest good. They live evermore as Jivanmuktas (emancipated even while alive).
84-86. Sages with subtle and clear intellect have not considered it worthwhile to eradicate their desire, etc., by forcing other thoughts to take their place, because desires do not obstruct realisation. Therefore their desires continue to manifest even after realisation, as before. Neither are they tainted by such vasanas. They are said to be emancipated and diverse-minded. They are also reputed to be the best class of Jnanis.
87-90. Rama, he whose mind clings to the ignorance of the necessity of work cannot hope for realisation even if Siva offers to instruct him. Similarly also the person who has the fault of marked indifference to or misunderstanding of the teachings. On the other hand, a man only slightly affected by these two vasanas, and much more so by desires or ambitions, will by repeated hearing of the holy truth, discussion of the same, and contemplation on it, surely

reach the goal, though only with considerable difficulty and after a long lapse of time. Such a Sage’s activities will be small because he is entirely engrossed in his efforts for realisation.
[Note: His activities will be confined to the indispen- sable necessities of life.]
91. A Sage of this class has, by his long practice and rigorous discipline, controlled his mind so well that pre- dispositions are totally eradicated and the mind is as if dead. He belongs to the middle class in the scheme of classification of Sages and is said to be a Sage without mind.
92-94. The last class and the least among the Sages are those whose practice and discipline are not perfect enough to destroy mental predispositions. Their minds are still active and the Sages are said to be associated with their minds. They are barely Jnanis and not Jivanmuktas as are the other two classes. They appear to share the pleasures and pains of life like any other man and will continue to do so till the end of their lives. They will be emancipated after death.
95-96. Prarabdha (past karma) is totally powerless with the middle class, who have destroyed their minds by continued practice.
The mind is the soil in which the seed, namely prarabdha, sprouts (into pleasures and pains of life). If the soil is barren, the seed loses its sprouting power by long storage, and becomes useless.
97-103. There are men in the world who can carefully attend to different functions at the same time and are famous and extraordinarily skilful; again some people attend to work as they are walking and conversing, while a teacher has an eye upon each student in the classroom and exercises control over them all; or you yourself knew Kartaviryarjuna, who wielded different weapons in his thousand hands and fought with you using all of them skilfully and simultaneously. In all these cases, a single mind assumes different shapes to suit the different functions at the same time. Similarly the mind of the best among Jnanis is only the Self and yet manifests as all without suffering any change in its eternal blissful nature as the Self. They are therefore many-minded.
[Note: Kartaviryarjuna was the chief of the Haihayas who were the sworn enemies of Parasurama. He was himself a devotee of Sri Dattatreya and had received the most wonderful boon from his Master, namely, that his name should be transmitted to posterity as that of an ideal king unparalleled in legend or history. His reign was indeed remarkable and his prowess was unequalled, much less excelled. Still, as destiny would have it, he was challenged by Parasurama and killed in battle.]
104-05. The prarabdha of Jnanis is still active and sprouts in the mind but only to be burnt up by the steady flame of jnana. Pleasure or pain is due to the dwelling of the mind on occurrences. But if these are scorched at their source, how can there be pain or pleasure?
106-08. Jnanis of the highest order, however, are seen to be active because they voluntarily bring out the vasanas from the depth of the mind and allow them to run out. Their action is similar to that of a father sporting with his child, moving its dolls, laughing at the imagined victory of one doll over another, and appearing to grieve over the injury to another, and so on; so the many-minded Sages have pleasure or pain from work.
109-12. The vasanas not inimical to realisation are not weeded out by the best class of Jnanis because they cannot seek new ones to crowd the old out. Therefore the old ones continue until they are exhausted and thus you find among them some highly irritable, some lustful and others pious and dutiful, and so on.
Now the lowest order of Jnanis still under the influence of their minds know that there is no truth in the objective universe. Their samadhi is not different from that of the rest.
113. What is samadhi? Samadhi is being aware of the Self, and nothing else — that is to say — it should not be confounded with the nirvikalpa (undifferentiated) state, for this state of samadhi is very common and frequent, as has been pointed out in the case of momentary samadhis.
114-15. Everyone is experiencing the nirvikalpa state, though unknowingly. But what is the use of such unrecog- nised samadhis? A similar state becomes possible to the hatha yogis also. This experience alone does not confer any lasting benefit. But one may apply the experience to the practical affairs of life. Samadhi can only be such and such alone. (Sahaja samadhi is meant here.)

 

[dwai]

Quote

116-17. (Having spoken of the Jnani’s samadhi as approved by the Sages, Dattatreya proceeds to prove its unbroken nature). What is samadhi? Samadhi is absolute knowledge uncontaminated by objects. Such is the state of the best Jnanis even when they take part in the affairs of the world.

The blue colour of the sky is known to be an unreal phenomenon and yet it appears the same to both the knowing and the unknowing, but with this difference, that the one is misled by the appearance and the other is not.
118. Just as the false perception does not mislead the man who knows, so also all that is perceived, which is known to the wise to be false, will never mislead them.
119. Since the middle class of Jnanis have already destroyed their minds, there are no objects for them. Their state is known as the supramental one.
120. The mind is agitated when it assumes the shape of those objects which it mistakes for real; and unagitated otherwise. Therefore the latter state alone is supramental.
[Note: The mind of the highest order of Jnanis though associated with objects, knows them to be unreal and there- fore is not agitated as is the case with the ignorant.]
121. Since a Jnani of the highest order can engage in several actions at the same time and yet remain unaffected, he is always many-minded and yet remains in unbroken samadhi. His is absolute knowledge free from objects.
I have now told you all that you want to know.
Thus ends the Chapter XIX on “The Different States

 

 

[Jetsun]

Thoughts aren't the problem it is the identification with thoughts that is the glue which fixates attention and energy.

 

No matter how much you tame your mind thoughts will keep on thinking just as your lungs keep on breathing, it's a function of being human. 

[neti neti]

Thoughts are of the nature of desire under the delusion there is something other than oneself.

 

Transcending thoughts, our natural bliss or self-love, is itself the Self which we are. By the very power of Self, that self-love assumes the form of thoughts once apparent objects seem separate from Self.

 

Unified samadhi appears as divided samadhi. However, there is only samadhi.

Edited September 20, 2018 by neti neti

[KuroShiro]

23 hours ago, Jetsun said:

No matter how much you tame your mind thoughts will keep on thinking just as your lungs keep on breathing, it's a function of being human. 

 

Are you sure about that?

I've read about interesting and extraordinary things such as lungs that stop breathing and it seems that hearts can stop pumping too. This would make taming the mind to be without thoughts look like child's play.

[whitesilk]

On 9/19/2018 at 4:54 PM, Jetsun said:

Thoughts aren't the problem it is the identification with thoughts that is the glue which fixates attention and energy.

 

No matter how much you tame your mind thoughts will keep on thinking just as your lungs keep on breathing, it's a function of being human. 

 

Thank You! We as a culture, society, or people do need to think things through before action, especially in this age.

 

BTW, how does one think out their thoughts?

[Jonesboy]

One has thoughts when you are writing or speaking for example.

 

It isn’t about stopping or thinking out their thoughts it is about the clarity of them.

 

like seeing  a flower for the beauty it is without any mental judgments of it being old, small, wrong color or not your favorite type of flower.

 

They are all perfect as they are.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Jonesboy

[neti neti]

On 9/20/2018 at 8:08 PM, Jonesboy said:

One has thoughts when you are writing or speaking for example.

 

It isn’t about stopping or thinking out their thoughts it is about the clarity of them.

 

like seeing  a flower for the beauty it is without any mental judgments of it being old, small, wrong color or not your favorite type of flower.

 

They are all perfect as they are.

 

Well let's not stop there. Maybe the one and the thinking of thoughts, which appear as belonging to that one, is the same thought.

 

The most beautiful of flowers can be quite deadly, no matter how clearly they appear to the seer. Poisonous perfection, indifferent to our likes or dislikes.

Edited September 22, 2018 by neti neti

[dwai]

A more well thought through article on this topic (and associated discussions that have ensued recently) --

 

https://www.medhajournal.com/the-unbroken-samadhi-underlying-thoughts/

 

[neti neti]

An interesting Ramana Maharshi quote on sahaja samadhi:

 

Quote

"The non-manifested also exists in your waking state. Even now you are in the non-manifested. You have to become conscious of it. It is a mistake to think that one enters sushupti(deep sleep) and that one leaves it. To be conscious of sushupti in the jagrat(the waking state), this is what is called jagrat-sushupti or samadhi."

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by neti neti

[neti neti]

This "conscious perception" of totality without fragmentation is direct experience with no experiencer, free from the concepts of the whole and its parts, intuition without mental processing, pure impersonal apprehension devoid of both perceiver and perceived.

Edited October 3, 2018 by neti neti

[neti neti]

Deep sleep is like the thoughtless samadhi sensed in that concept-less moment of cognizing paradox, or that space of pause between two breaths. A natural feeling of being, from which one concludes, "I slept." But it is merely ignorance(that which is not), and one would more accurately state, "I forgot myself."

 

"It is a mistake to think that one enters sushupti(deep sleep) and that one leaves it", points to that unidentified identity that is one's true nature(which is the only nature, so there is essentially no nature). If one never enters deep sleep(forgetfulness) then one also never truly enters waking or dream(knowing of). The mind reels at the prospect, fearing its demise or collapse of its structure. One becomes so unquestioningly identified with the thinker, yet supreme intellect intuitively sees the truth spontaneously.

 

There are no thoughts to interrupt, as there is no thinker. There is only a falling asleep of sorts, identical to the experience of remembering. There is no real waking or dream representative of objective knowledge, and there is no real deep sleep representative of the dark veil of ignorance. There is only witnessing by that which cannot be witnessed, wherein the ignorance of forgetting forgets itself. It never sleeps, and is always woke. From behind these immense curtains of consciousness, the flimsy veil of forgetfulness and remembrance is exposed in all of its short-lived transparence. Throughout all passing states, "samadhi" never enters and never leaves.

 

Ramana said, "Holding on to the supreme state is Samadhi. When it is with effort due to mental disturbances, it is Samprajnata. When these disturbances are absent, it is Nirvikalpa. Remaining permanently in the primal state without effort is Sahaja."

 

This means one must BE "samadhi." Being oneself is effortless, even if one seems to forget and then remember. If one insists on looking upon "samadhi" from afar, instead of fearlessly being it, one will miss oneself and continue appearing to "slip in and out" of that "continuous samadhi".

Edited October 3, 2018 by neti neti