Continuous samadhi interrupted by thoughts

[dwai]

In the text Tripura Rahasya, King Janaka expounds to sage Ashtavakra about the nature of samadhi.

 

He says that nirvikalpa samadhi is a continuous experience of every being. It is only interrupted by thoughts and objects.

 

When the mind is extroverted one doesn’t realize the nirvalkpa samadhi that is constantly there, as the attention is busy grasping this and that. 

 

The purification of the mind is with the introverting of the mind, from outside to within. As the mind purifies the samadhi becomes apparent and eventually one can effortlessly stay like that (effortless samadhi). 

 

Quote

77. “I shall now talk to you from my own experience. This subject is perplexing for the most accomplished persons.

 

78. “All these three states, namely, samâdhi, sleep and the instant of cognition of objects, are characterised by absence of perturbation.

 

79. “Their difference lies in the later recapitulation of the respective states which illumine different perceptions.

 

80. “Absolute Reality is manifest in samâdhi; a void or unmanifest condition distinguishes sleep and diversity is the characteristic of cognition in wakefulness.

 

81. “The illuminant is however the same all through and is always unblemished. Therefore it is said to be abstract intelligence.

 

82. “Samâdhi and sleep are obvious because their experience remains unbroken for some appreciable period and can be recapitulated after waking up.

 

83. “That of cognition remains unrecognised because of its fleeting nature. But samâdhi and sleep cannot be recognised when they are only fleeting.

 

84. “The wakeful state is iridescent with fleeting samâdhi and sleep. Men when they are awake can detect fleeting sleep because they are already conversant with its nature.

 

85-86. “But fleeting samâdhi goes undetected because people are not so conversant with it. O Brahmin! fleeting samâdhi is indeed being experienced by all, even in their busy moments; but it passes unnoticed by them, for want of acquaintance with it. Every instant free from thoughts and musings in the wakeful state is the condition of samâdhi.

 

87. “Samâdhi is simply absence of thoughts. Such a state prevails in sleep and at odd moments of wakefulness.

 

88. “Yet, it is not called samâdhi proper, because all the proclivities of the mind are still there latent, ready to manifest the next instant.

 

appreciable period and can be recapitulated after waking up.

 

83. “That of cognition remains unrecognised because of its fleeting nature. But samâdhi and sleep cannot be recognised when they are only fleeting.

 

84. “The wakeful state is iridescent with fleeting samâdhi and sleep. Men when they are awake can detect fleeting sleep because they are already conversant with its nature.

 

85-86. “But fleeting samâdhi goes undetected because people are not so conversant with it. O Brahmin! fleeting samâdhi is indeed being experienced by all, even in their busy moments; but it passes unnoticed by them, for want of acquaintance with it. Every instant free from thoughts and musings in the wakeful state is the condition of samâdhi.

 

87. “Samâdhi is simply absence of thoughts. Such a state prevails in sleep and at odd moments of wakefulness.

 

88. “Yet, it is not called samâdhi proper, because all the proclivities of the mind are still there latent, ready to manifest the next instant.

 

89. “The infinitesimal moment of seeing an object is not tainted by deliberation on its qualities and is exactly like samâdhi. I will tell you further, listen!

 

90-93. “The unmanifest state, the first-born of abstract Intelligence revealing ‘There is not anything’ is the state of abstraction full of light; it is, however, called sleep because it is the insentient phase of consciousness. Nothing is revealed because there is nothing to be revealed. Sleep is therefore the manifestation of the insentient state. “But in samâdhi, Brahman, the Supreme Consciousness, is continuously glowing. She is the engulfer of time and space, the destroyer of void, and the pure being (Jehovah—I AM). How can She be the ignorance of sleep?

 

94. “Therefore sleep is not the end-all and the be-all.” Thus did Janaka teach Ashtavakra. Thus ends the chapter on the discourse of Janaka to Ashtavakra in Tripura Rahasya.

 

[dwai]

Quote

2-3. Ashtavakra asked, “King! please tell me in greater detail what you call fleeting samâdhi in the wakeful state, so that I may follow it up in order to achieve enduring samâdhi.” Thus requested, Janaka replied:

 

4-11. “Listen, O Brahmin! the following are instances of that state: when a man remains unaware of ‘in and out’ for a short interval and is not overpowered by the ignorance of sleep; the infinitesimal time when one is beside one-self with joy; when embraced by one’s beloved in all purity; when a thing is gained which was intensely longed for but given up in despair; when a lonely traveller moving with the utmost confidence is suddenly confronted with the utmost danger;

when one hears of the sudden death of one’s only son, who was in the best of health, in the prime of life, and at the apex of his glory. Note: They are examples of samâdhi in raptures of happiness or of pleasure and in spasms of fear or of sorrow.

 

12-14. “There are also intervals of samâdhi, namely the interim period between the waking, dream and sleep states; at the time of sighting a distant object, the mind holding the body at one end projects itself into space until it holds the object at the other end, just as a worm prolongs itself at the time of leaving one hold to catch another hold. Carefully watch the state of mind in the interval.

 

15-18. “Why dilate on these intervals? All happening will be brought to a standstill if intelligence be homogeneous. They are made possible when a certain harmony reigns in intelligence which ordinarily is repeatedly broken. “Therefore the great founders of different systems of philosophy have said that the difference between the Self (i.e., abstract intelligence) and intellect (individualistic) lies only in their continuity. Sugata (i.e., Buddha) considers the Self to be the stream of Intelligence Intelligence broken up, of course, at short intervals; Kanada says that it is intellect which is characteristic of the Self. “Anyway when once interruptions in the stream of Intelligence are admitted, it follows that these intervals between the various modifications of the intellect into objects, would represent its unmodified, original state. O son of Kahoela, know that if one can become aware of these broken samadhis no other samâdhi need attract one.”

 

19-23. The Brahmin youth asked further, “O King, why are not all liberated if their lives are so iridescent with momentary samâdhi, if it be the enlightener of the unmanifest void in sleep? Liberation is the direct result of unqualified samâdhi. The Self being pure intelligence, why does it not recognise itself and remain always liberated? “Ignorance is dispelled by pure intelligence, which is samâdhi, and this is the immediate cause of salvation. “Please tell me, so that all my doubts may be set at rest.”

 

[dwai]

Quote

24-26. “I will tell you the secret. The cycle of births and deaths is from time immemorial caused by ignorance which displays itself as pleasure and pain and yet is only a dream and unreal. Being so, the wise say that it can be ended by knowledge. By what kind of knowledge? Wisdom born of realization: viz., “I am That.” Commentary: An aspirant for wisdom first turns away from the pleasures of life and absorbs himself in the search for knowledge, which he learns from a master. This is hearsay knowledge. In order to experience it, he ponders over it and clears his doubts. Then he applies the knowledge to himself and tries to feel his immortal being transcending the body, mind, etc., he succeeds in feeling his Self within. Later he remembers the Vedic teaching imparted by his Guru that the Self being unqualified, cannot be differentiated from God and experiences his unity with the Universal Self. This is in short the course of wisdom and liberation.

 

27-29. “Ignorance cannot be expelled by the mere experience of an unqualified expanse of intelligence as in nirvikalpa samâdhi. For such expanse is in harmony with everything (including ignorance). It is like the canvas used in painting; the canvas remains the same whatever picture may be painted on it. Unqualified knowledge is simple light; the objects are manifest by and in it. Commentary: The mirror is clear and uniform when there are no objects to reflect; the same appears variegated by images reflected in it. So also the Self is pure intelligence and clear when not contaminated by thoughts; this state is called nirvikalpa. When soiled by thoughts, it is savikalpa. 30. “But ignorance or delusion should not be confounded with the savikalpa state—for ignorance is only the original contamination (i.e., cause) continuing as effect. Commentary: Pure intelligence (God) in His insentient aspect functions as Mâyâ or the self-contained entity projecting ignorance as creation.

 

31-34. “The original cause lies in the knowledge of perfection in the Self. Note: One expects the contrary. The apparent contradiction is explained further on. “The idea of perfection is due to absence of parts. Parts can appear only with time, space and form. However, the sense of completeness appears without these agencies, implying a yearning for them—thus giving rise to the sense of want. Then and there limitations come into being, and the fundamental cause of ignorance manifests as ‘I am.’ That is the embryonic seed from which shoots forth the sprout of the body as the individualised self (growing up to the gigantic tree of the cycle of births and deaths). The cycle of births and deaths does not end unless ignorance is put an end to. This can happen only with a perfect knowledge of the self, not otherwise.

 

35-38. “Such wisdom as can destroy ignorance is clearly of two sorts: indirect and direct. Knowledge is first acquired from a Master and through him from the scriptures. Such indirect knowledge cannot fulfil the object in view. Because theoretical knowledge alone does not bear fruit; practical knowledge is necessary which comes through samâdhi alone. Knowledge born of nirvikalpa samâdhi generates wisdom by the eradication of ignorance and objective knowledge.

 

39-47. “Similarly, experience of casual samâdhi in the absence of theoretical knowledge does not serve the purpose either. Just as a man, ignorant of the qualities of an emerald, cannot recognise it by the mere sight of it in the treasury, nor can another recognise it if he has not seen it before, although he is full of theoretical knowledge on the subject, in the same way theory must be supplemented with practice in order that a man might become an expert. Ignorance cannot be eradicated by mere theory or by the casual samâdhi of an ignorant man. “Again want of attention is a serious obstacle; for a man looking up to the sky cannot identify the individual constellations. Even a learned scholar is no better than a fool, if he does not pay attention when a thing is explained to him. On the other hand, a man though not a scholar but yet attentive having heard all about the planet Venus, goes out in confidence to look for it, knowing how to identify it, and finally discovers it, and so is able to recognise the same whenever he sees it again. Inattentive people are simply fools who cannot understand the ever-recurring samadhis in their lives. They are like a man ignorant of the treasure under the floor of his house who begs for his daily food.

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by dwai

[Spotless]

From quote - by unknown translation / author

19-23. The Brahmin youth asked further, “O King, why are not all liberated if their lives are so iridescent with momentary samâdhi, if it be the enlightener of the unmanifest void in sleep? Liberation is the direct result of unqualified samâdhi. The Self being pure intelligence, why does it not recognise itself and remain always liberated? “Ignorance is dispelled by pure intelligence, which is samâdhi, and this is the immediate cause of salvation. “Please tell me, so that all my doubts may be set at rest.”

 

In this choice of wording it is difficult to see the pointing for so many:

 “Ignorance is dispelled by pure intelligence, which is samâdhi, and this is the immediate cause of salvation."

 

One could use any number of words to better put forth the feel and meaning and nature of this conversation - though it is a beautiful conversation in this translation as well.

 

Ignorance could be replaced by trance - en-trancement.

pure intelligence could be replaced by pure awareness.

 

Certainly in Samadhi it does not feel like "pure intelligence" nor does it equate to "pure intelligence" at those short points of immediate awareness.

 

To the intelligent person that is "in ignorance", it is not for lack of intelligence and awareness but for loss of pure awareness to the entrancement of object and inertia. One does not feel "ignorant" but one can possibly see they are constantly transfixed in position and belief and rigidized past patterns.

 

-

 

On an added note - samadhi can become sleep in full awareness - one can be in it during sleep and not lose awareness.

one can also be in awareness during the bodies sleep and not be in samadhi.

It is quite possible to be awake all the time and so the nature of "sleep" in the traditional sense is considerably different - though the body may snore though it - awareness does not.

 

It is not my intention to derail these quotes - they are exceptional.

For those that have Awakened it is simply joyful to read these - for those that are tying to see pointings that clarify, some of it is superb and the whole of it is excellent but rather than use words that must be redefined in order to be understood the more blunt approach of using words that do not require the invocation of the problem itself might better be considered.

 

Pure Intuition or Divine Intuition comes much closer to what is the experience - yet it is nearly as loaded as "intelligence" - but more accurate even if it is too ballsy. Within the experience is often geometric revelation, crystalline forms, great beings of light, music and great heart ❤️ - in this - "intelligence"  is not the feel of it - it is more of the blood of all and everything and nothing.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Spotless

[dwai]

It was translated back in 1936 iinm. So the language is a bit dated  

[Jonesboy]

Quote

87. “Samâdhi is simply absence of thoughts. Such a state prevails in sleep and at odd moments of wakefulness.

.

. So also the Self is pure intelligence and clear when not contaminated by thoughts; this state is called nirvikalpa. When soiled by thoughts, it is savikalpa.

 

Do you believe this to be true? That basically silence is the goal and thoughts are bad?

 

[dwai]

Just now, Jonesboy said:

 

Do you believe this to be true? That basically silence is the goal and thoughts are bad?

 

No. That’s not what he’s saying. He’s pointing out that the “entranced mind” is deluded and unaware of the divinity the underlies itself. I’m using entranced (thx to spotless) as in extroverted mind that is caught up in this and that. 

[Jonesboy]

1 minute ago, dwai said:

No. That’s not what he’s saying. He’s pointing out that the “entranced mind” is deluded and unaware of the divinity the underlies itself. I’m using entranced (thx to spotless) as in extroverted mind that is caught up in this and that. 

 

It seems he is saying both to me.

[dwai]

3 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

It seems he is saying both to me.

That’s why reading the entire text is important before jumping to conclusions  

[Jonesboy]

Just now, dwai said:

That’s why reading the entire text is important before jumping to conclusions  

 

Who is jumping to conclusions?

 

This is directly from the text.

 

" Every instant free from thoughts and musings in the wakeful state is the condition of samâdhi.

 

87. “Samâdhi is simply absence of thoughts. Such a state prevails in sleep and at odd moments of wakefulness."

 

Silence = Samadhi stated pretty firmly right there.

 

' “Anyway when once interruptions in the stream of Intelligence are admitted, it follows that these intervals between the various modifications of the intellect into objects, would represent its unmodified, original state. O son of Kahoela, know that if one can become aware of these broken samadhis no other samâdhi need attract one.”

 

Is this not teaching that samadhi is the gap between thoughts?

 

What am I missing?

 

Also, my friend if you think I am missing something wouldn't it be better to point it out than to assume something negative about my intentions? This is the hindu section and if it is the belief of this tradition I am okay with it. Just asking a question.

[dwai]

Quote

48. “So you see that samâdhi is useless to such people. The intellect of babes is always unmodified and yet they do not realize the self.

 

49. “Nirvikalpa samâdhi clearly will never eradicate ignorance. Therefore in order to destroy it savikalpa samâdhi must be sought.

 

50-52. “This alone can do it. God inherent as the self is pleased by meritorious actions which are continued through several births after which the desire for liberation dawns and not otherwise, even though millions of births may be experienced. Of all things in creation, to be born a sentient being requires good luck; even so to acquire a human body requires considerable merit; while it is out of the ordinary for human beings to be endowed with both virtuous tendencies and sharp intellect.

 

53-60. “Observe, O Brahmin, that the mobile creation is a very small fraction of the immobile and that human beings form but a small fraction of the mobile, while most human beings are little more than animals, being ignorant of good and bad, and of right and wrong. Of sensible people, the best part runs after the pleasures of life seeking to fulfil their desire. A few learned people are stained with the longing for heaven after  death. Of the remaining few, most of them have their intellects bedimmed by Mâyâ and cannot comprehend the oneness of all (the Creator and creation). How can these poor folk, held in the grip of Mâyâ, extend their weak sight to the sublime Truth of Oneness? People blinded by Mâyâ cannot see this truth. Even when some people rise so high in the scale as to understand the theory, misfortune prevents their being convinced of it (for their desires sway them to and fro with force greater than the acquired, puny, theoretical knowledge, which if strictly followed should put an end to such desires, which flourish on the denial of oneness). They try to justify their practical actions by fallacious arguments which are simply a waste of time. “Inscrutable are the ways of Mâyâ which denies the highest Realization to them, it is as if they threw away the live gem in their hands thinking it to be a mere pebble.

 

61. “Only those transcend Mâyâ with whose devotion the Goddess of the Self is pleased; such can discern well and happily.

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by dwai

[Spotless]

1 hour ago, Jonesboy said:

 

Quote

87. “Samâdhi is simply absence of thoughts. Such a state prevails in sleep and at odd moments of wakefulness.

.

. So also the Self is pure intelligence and clear when not contaminated by thoughts; this state is called nirvikalpa. When soiled by thoughts, it is savikalpa.

 

Do you believe this to be true? That basically silence is the goal and thoughts are bad?

 

 

It doesn't necessarily follow that thoughts are "bad" - they are simply thoughts. In Samadhi one does not find thoughts or the entrainment of tensions and inertia's.

 

It does not imply dullness - as in "simply dead silence".

 

Imagine you are in a beautiful museum looking a incredible art - but with an agrivating noise that keeps taking you out of enjoyment in the present with the art.

Then imagine that the noise completely falls away - and not only with the falling away of the noise, the walls fall away and ceiling dissapeara and the floor is but clouds.

 

Samadhi can be had anytime - it is like steeping in the light blood essence.

 

Has music ever been enhanced by someone trying to talk over it - or a picture by someone waving there arms in front of it?

 

Great revelation can roll in during Samadhi. The bodies can glint in gold and respond to Samadhi. Everything in ones surrounding is imbued with Samadhi.

 

(Some of what is translated regarding sleep is I would assume poorly translated)

Edited September 18, 2018 by Spotless

[dwai]

Quote

62. “Being by the grace of God endowed with proper discernment and right-earnestness, they become established in transcendental Oneness and become absorbed. “I shall now tell you the scheme of liberation.

 

63. “One learns true devotion to God after a meritorious life continued in several births, and then worships Him for a long time with intense devotion.

 

64. “Dispassion for the pleasures of life arises in a devotee who gradually begins to long for knowledge of the truth and becomes absorbed in the search for it.

 

65. “He then finds his gracious Master and learns from him all about the transcendental state. He has now gained theoretical knowledge. Note: This is sravana.

 

66. “After this he is impelled to revolve the whole matter in his mind until he is satisfied from his own practical knowledge with the harmony of the scriptural injunctions and the teachings of his Master. He is able to ascertain the highest truth with clearness and certitude. Note: This is manana.

 

67. “The ascertained knowledge of the Oneness of the Self must afterwards be brought  into practice, even forcibly, if necessary, until the experience of the truth occurs to him. Note: This is nidhidhyasana.

 

68. “After experiencing the Inner Self, he will be able to identify the Self with the Supreme and thus destroy the root of ignorance. There is no doubt of it.

 

69. “The inner Self is realized in advanced contemplation and that state of realization is called nirvikalpa samâdhi. “Memory of that realization enables one to identify the Inner Self with the Universal Self (as “I am That”). Note: This is pratyabhina jnana. Commentary: Contemplation is designated in its progressive stages, as savikalpa samâdhi (qualified samâdhi) and nirvikalpa samâdhi (unqualified samâdhi). Dhyana (contemplation) leads to the repose consequent on the resolve that the mind in its absolute purity is only the Self. There are interruptions by thought obtruding in the earlier stages. Then the practice goes by the name of dhyana. When the repose remains smooth and uninterrupted for some appreciable time, it is called savikalpa samâdhi. If by its constant practice, the repose ensues without any previous resolve (i.e., effortlessly) and continues uninterrupted for some time, it is called nirvikalpa samâdhi. The Inner Self glows in all its purity, in the last stage. After rising from it, the memory of the uncommon experience of the Self remains; it enables him to identify the transcendence of the one with that same One which is in all. (This is the sahaja state, as is often said by Sri Ramana. Translator.)

 

70. “That is the Oneness of the Self, the same as the identification of the transcendence of the one with that same one in all the diversities of the world apparent to each individual. This destroys the root of ignorance, instantly and completely.

 

71. “Dhyana has been said to develop into nirvikalpa samâdhi. Whereas modifications signify the many-sidedness of consciousness, nirvikalpa signifies its unitary nature.

 

72. “When the mind does not create pictures due to thoughts it is the unmodified state which is its primal and pure condition.

 

73. “When the pictures on a wall are erased, the original wall remains. No other work is necessary to restore its original condition.

 

74. “Similarly, the mind remains pure when thoughts are eliminated. Therefore the unqualified state is restored if the present disturbance is ended.

 

75. “There is indeed nothing more to be done for the most holy condition to be maintained. Nevertheless, even pandits are deluded in this matter, owing to the bane of Mâyâ.

 

76. “The acutely intelligent can accomplish the purpose in a trice. Aspirants may be divided into three groups: (1) the best, (2) the middle class, and (3) the lowest.

 

77. “Of these, the best class realize at the very moment of hearing the truth. Their ascertainment of truth and contemplation thereon are simultaneous with their learning.

 

78-92. “Realization of truth requires no effort on their part. Take my case for instance. On a moonlit summer night, I was lying drunkenly on a downy bed in my pleasure garden in the loving embrace of my beloved. I suddenly heard the sweet nectar-like songs of invisible aerial beings who taught me the oneness of the Self of which I was unaware till that moment. I instantly thought over it, meditated on it, and realized it in less than an hour. For about an hour and a half I remained in samâdhi-the state of supreme bliss. “I regained consciousness and began to muse over my experience ‘Oh wonderful! How full of bliss I was! It was extraordinary. Let me return to it. The happiness of the king of the Gods cannot equal even to a fraction of my bliss. “Not even the Creator, Brahmâ, could have that bliss; my life had been wasted in other pursuits. Just as a man ignores the fact that he holds chintamani (the celestial gem capable of fulfilling one’s desires) in his hands, and goes begging food, so also people ignorant of the fount of bliss within themselves, waste their lives seeking external pleasures! For me such hankerings are done with! Let me always abide in the eternal, infinite source of bliss within me! Enough of such foolish activities! They are shades of darkness and vain repetitions of useless labor. Be they delicious dishes, perfumed garlands, downy beds, rich ornaments or vivacious   damsels—they are mere repetitions, with no novelty or originality in them. Disgust for them had not arisen in me before because I had been foolishly treading the way of the world. “As soon as I had decided on and attempted to turn my mind inward, another bright idea struck me:

 

93-95. “What confusion I am in! Although I am always in the perfection of Bliss, what is it I want to do? What more can I acquire? What do I lack? When and whence can I get anything? Even if there were anything new to be gained, would it endure? How can I who am Infinite Consciousness-Bliss know effort?

 

96-98. “Individual bodies, their senses, minds, etc., are similar to visions in a dream; they are projected from me. Control of one mind leaves all other minds as they are. So what is the use of controlling my mind? Minds, controlled or uncontrolled, appear only to my mental eye.

 

99. “Again, even if all minds are controlled, mine remains free. For my mind is like infinite space, the receptacle of all things. Who is to control it and how? 

 

100. “How can samâdhi be brought about when I am already in the perfection of bliss, for the Self is Bliss-Consciousness, even more perfect than infinite space?

 

101. “My own light manifests diverse activities all about the world which is again my own manifestation.

 

102. “What matters it if one should manifest as action or inaction? Where is the gain or loss in such manifestation?

 

103. “Similarly what matters it for the perfect blissful Self if it fall into nirvikalpa samâdhi? Samâdhi or no samâdhi, I am the same Perfection and eternal Peace.

 

104-105. “Let the body do what it likes. Thinking thus I always abide in my own Self as the Perfect fountain-head of Bliss and pure uninterrupted consciousness. I am therefore in the state of perfection and remain unblemished. “My experience is typical of the best aspirants.

 

106-107. “Wisdom is achieved in the course of many births by the lowest aspirants. As for the middle class, wisdom is gained in the same birth—but slowly and gradually according to the aforesaid scheme of (1) learning the truth, (2) conviction of the same, (3) meditation—qualified samâdhi and unqualified samâdhi, and (4) finally sahaja samâdhi (to be unattached even while engaged in the activities of the world). This last state is very rarely found.

 

108. “Why fall into nirvikalpa samâdhi, without gaining the fruit of its wisdom! Even if he should experience it a hundred times it will not liberate the individual. Therefore I tell you that momentary samadhis in the waking state are fruitless.

 

109. “Unless a man live the ordinary life and check every incident as the projection of the Self, not swerving from the Self in any circumstances, he cannot be said to be free from the handicap of ignorance.

 

110. “Nirvikalpa samâdhi is characterised by the experience of the true Self alone, namely, Pure Intelligence. Though eternal and resplendent even ordinarily, this Abstract Intelligence is as if it did not exist.

 

111-112. “Abstract Intelligence is the background on which the phenomena are displayed, and it must certainly manifest itself in all its purity, in their absence, although its appearance may look new at first. It remains unrecognised because it is not distinguished from the phenomena displayed by it. On their being eliminated it becomes apparent. “This in short is the method of Self-Realization.

 

113. “O Brahmin! Think over what you have now learnt, and you will realize. With the wisdom born of your realization, you will inhere as the Self and be eternally free .” Dattatreya said:

 

114-15. “After giving these instructions to Ashtavakra, Janaka sent him away. Ashtavakra reached his own place and put the lessons into practice. Very soon he too became a jivanmukta (liberated while yet alive).” Thus ends the seventeenth chapter.

 

[Jonesboy]

1 minute ago, Spotless said:

It doesn't necessarily follow that thoughts are "bad" - they are simply thoughts. In Samadhi one does not find thoughts or the entrainment of tensions and inertia's.

 

It does not imply dullness - simply dead silence.

 

 

I would disagree Spotless.

 

Thoughts are just flows of energy that one can attach to.  Clarity is a part of ones being and to say you only have clarity when you have no thoughts is not something I agree with.

 

Such ideas then would say that while he was writing, teaching the above he wasn't in Samadhi.

 

That to me isn't Samadhi.

[dwai]

4 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

I would disagree Spotless.

 

Thoughts are just flows of energy that one can attach to.  Clarity is a part of ones being and to say you only have clarity when you have no thoughts is not something I agree with.

 

Such ideas then would say that while he was writing, teaching the above he wasn't in Samadhi.

 

That to me isn't Samadhi.

Read the quotes from the previous comment. The author says that nirvikalpa samadhi is essentially useless.

 

also wrt clarity without thoughts vs clarity with thoughts is erroneous way of thinking. Clarity is always there. Only obscured by attention attached to objects. When one is established in the Samadhi  nature, the attention doesn’t get attached anymore. No mind is a “non grasping” mind. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by dwai

[Jonesboy]

1 minute ago, dwai said:

Read the quotes from the previous comment. The author says that nirvikalpa samadhi is essentially useless 

 

So, back to my first question to you.

 

Do you agree with that?

[dwai]

2 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

So, back to my first question to you.

 

Do you agree with that?

With what? Samadhi is the clarity that underlies thoughts, perceptions, feelings, etc etc. 

[Jeff]

27 minutes ago, dwai said:

108. “Why fall into nirvikalpa samâdhi, without gaining the fruit of its wisdom! Even if he should experience it a hundred times it will not liberate the individual. Therefore I tell you that momentary samadhis in the waking state are fruitless.

 

109. “Unless a man live the ordinary life and check every incident as the projection of the Self, not swerving from the Self in any circumstances, he cannot be said to be free from the handicap of ignorance.

 

 

[Spotless]

21 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

I would disagree Spotless.

 

Thoughts are just flows of energy that one can attach to.  Clarity is a part of ones being and to say you only have clarity when you have no thoughts is not something I agree with.

 

Such ideas then would say that while he was writing, teaching the above he wasn't in Samadhi.

 

That to me isn't Samadhi.

It is interesting the extrapolations you create:

 

I did not say "you only have clarity when you have no thoughts"

 

Also - there are many types of Samadhi - and there are many types of thoughts - so many of which would not easily be characterized as 

"just flows of energy". In fact in the pointings of the above quotes the "thoughts" mentioned are those acting as constrictions and looping detours - the karmic extrusion of flow.

 

 

[Jonesboy]

1 hour ago, Spotless said:

It is interesting the extrapolations you create:

 

I did not say "you only have clarity when you have no thoughts"

 

Also - there are many types of Samadhi - and there are many types of thoughts - so many of which would not easily be characterized as 

"just flows of energy". In fact in the pointings of the above quotes the "thoughts" mentioned are those acting as constrictions and looping detours - the karmic extrusion of flow.

 

 

 

Isn't it all just energy?

[Jonesboy]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

With what? Samadhi is the clarity that underlies thoughts, perceptions, feelings, etc etc. 

 

I was asking you directly about your previous post to me.

 

Quote

The author says that nirvikalpa samadhi is essentially useless

 

I agree with it

 

 

 

Quote

With what? Samadhi is the clarity that underlies thoughts, perceptions, feelings, etc etc. 

 

 Samadhi earlier was defined as silence. Is that what clarity is, silence alone?

[dwai]

2 hours ago, Jonesboy said:

 

I was asking you directly about your previous post to me.

 

 

I agree with it

 

 

 

 

 Samadhi earlier was defined as silence. Is that what clarity is, silence alone?

Samadhi is pure awareness, without modifications or attachment to the modifications. That also is clarity. 

[dwai]

3 hours ago, Jonesboy said:

 

Isn't it all just energy?

I’d say it’s all awareness, including energy  

[Jonesboy]

5 minutes ago, dwai said:

I’d say it’s all awareness, including energy  

 

Shakti and Shiva, one and the same

[KuroShiro]

Thanks for this thread.

 

 

6 hours ago, Spotless said:

Also - there are many types of Samadhi - and there are many types of thoughts - so many of which would not easily be characterized as 
 

 

 

I was told there are 3 layers of Samadhi. I think meaning a progression? Would you agree with is and also could there be many types within these 3 layers?