[DDJ Meaning] Chapter 51

[dawei]

David Hinton 2002
51

Way gives birth to them and Integrity nurtures them.
Matter shapes them and conditions complete them.
That's why the ten thousand things always honor Way and treasure Integrity.
Honoring Way and treasuring Integrity
isn't obedience to command,
it's occurrence perennially appearing of itself.
Way gives birth to them and Integrity nurtures them:
it fosters and sustains them, harbors and succors them, nourishes and shelters them.
Giving birth without possessing,
animating without subjecting,
fostering without dominating:
this is called dark-enigma Integrity.

 

Chad Hansen 2009
51

A guide starts it, 
virtuosity cultivates it, 
Natural kinds model it 
and circumstances complete it. 
For this reason, among the ten-thousand natural kinds, 
None fail to respect a guide and value virtuosity. 
This respecting of guides 
and valuing of virtuosity 
is not, in general, commanded in words instead it treats self-so-ing as constant. 
Hence a guide starts it, 
virtuosity cultivates it, 
Acts as its elder, educates it, 
shades it, poisons it, 
nourishes it and returns it. 
Gives rise to and not 'exist,' 
Deem:act and not rely on anything. 
Acts as elder and does not rule. 
This would be called 'profound virtuosity.' 

 

 

Moss Roberts 2001
51

Ten thousand Dao begets and breeds,
Which its power tends and feeds
As objects all take varied shape,
As things to use reach final form.
For this the natural myriad
Honour the Way, esteem its power.
Such honour and such high esteem
No mandate from above decreed;
It is their norm of self-becoming.
Dao indeed begets and breeds
All its power tends and feeds
And fosters and then raises up
And brings to full maturity
And still preserves and still protects.
For Dao begets but does not keep,
Works its way but does not bind:
Authority that does not rule.
Such is the meaning of “hidden power”.
 
 

Lok Sang Ho 2002
51

The Dao gives them birth.
The Virtue rears them.
They get their shapes from substance.
They become what they are from the working of various forces.
For these reasons all living things pay homage to the Dao,
And respect the Virtue.
The stately status of the Dao and that of the Virtue
Are such that they are at the command of no one,
And are always in their natural states.
The Dao gives birth;
The Virtue rears them;
Raises and nourishes them;
Brings them up and lets them down;
Claims no ownership even though it brings them to life.
The Dao accomplishes but is never arrogant;
It lets them grow but never dictates their fates.
This is known as the Mystical Virtue. 

 

 

Gu Zhengku 1993
51

The Tao begets all creatures;
The virtue rears them;
Substance gives them shape;
Forces in opposition accomplish them.
Therefore all creatures worship the Tao and honor virtue.
This worship and honor stems from the fact
That the Tao and virtue never unnaturally
Impose their influence on all creatures.
In this way
The Tao begets all creatures;
The virtue rears them,
Promotes them, natures them,
Brings them to fruition and maturity,
Meanwhile maintains and defends them.
Giving them life without claiming to be their owner;
Availing them without claiming to be their benefactor;
And being their head without ruling them;
All these are called the most intrinsic Teh (virtue).

 

 

Lin Yutang 1948
51

   Tao gives them birth, 
   Teh (character) fosters them. 
   The material world gives them form. 
   The circumstances of the moment complete them. 
Therefore all things of the universe worship Tao and exalt Teh. 
   Tao is worshipped and Teh is exalted 
   Without anyone's order but is so of its own accord.

Therefore Tao gives them birth, 
Teh fosters them, 
Makes them grow, develops them, 
Gives them a harbor, a place to dwell in peace, 
Feeds them and shelter them. 
   It gives them birth and does not own them, 
   Acts (helps) and does not appropriate them, 
   Is superior, and does not control them. 
   - This is the Mystic Virtue.

 

 

Flowing Hands 1987
51

All things are born of the Dao.
They are nourished by vital energy, and formed from the five elements.
They are shaped by the Dao and by their environment.
So the Ten Thousand Things all respect the Dao.
In respecting the Dao, they live naturally.
The Dao takes care of all their needs;
it shelters them, feeds them and allows them to reproduce.
But it does not possess them, claim them or demand anything from them.
For it is great.
 

[Marblehead]

This:  This is the Mystic Virtue.

 

or

 

this:  This is known as the Mystical Virtue.

 

Henricks end his with:

 

This we call Profound Virtue.

[dawei]

44 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

This:  This is the Mystic Virtue.

 

or

 

this:  This is known as the Mystical Virtue.

 

Henricks end his with:

 

This we call Profound Virtue.

 

"This" three times without a mention of what 'this' is 

[Marblehead]

3 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

"This" three times without a mention of what 'this' is 

"This" is speaking to everything mentioned above the last line.

 

 

[dawei]

1 minute ago, Marblehead said:

"This" is speaking to everything mentioned above the last line.

 

 

 

Meaning, This ?   LOL

 

Just hoping to pull more meaning out.

 

This is not about Heaven or Earth..not about Man.

 

This is a passage about the Great Way. 

 

That last line is about  (玄德) , mystic virtue ?   Please... such a human interpretation of a chapter without any human reference.

 

Xuan is best understood as primordial... De as an original power, like a capacity to produce.

[Marblehead]

Well, I will say it a different way:

 

The Virtue of Dao is Mystical.

 

[dawei]

3 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Well, I will say it a different way:

 

The Virtue of Dao is Mystical.

 

 

that is curious.  I would of said, The VIrtue of Dao is Mystic...    but nice touch !

[OldDog]

Mystic(al) vs Profound. Mystic(al) suggests impenetrable, while Profound suggests great depth but not unattainable. Optimistically, I would prefer Profound.

 

This. The last line gramatically refers to some antecedent, presumably ... again grammar ... contained within the body of the verse/stanza/paragraph. What is contained there? Seems to be talking about birth, development and fulfillment. It would seem profound that something is issued forth from Dao into an environment that provides for its development and fulfillment. That nurturing being the profound virtue. All of this being spontaneous and selfso. The relationship ... interaction ... of Dao and Virtue being mystical.

 

That's about as far as my understanding carries me.

[Rara]

On 27/09/2018 at 7:35 PM, dawei said:

That's why the ten thousand things always honor Way and treasure Integrity.

 

I like this. I think this is explaining that little buzz-phrase "everyone is Daoist"

 

Perhaps this is why humans like to bend the rules here and there? Or at least desire to if it's not possible. I feel this line works best in the context of governance and unnatural laws.

[Sketch]

• Verse Fifty One

 

Everything is born out of the pathway

And then it finds that certain things nourish it

Nurture it

And decides that these things are virtue.

 

But everything else is not part of this same moral frame of reference; 

 

Using these kinds of moral rules becomes expensive.

 

Grown ups do not command the pathway into existence.

The pathway is right there.

 

You learn it from experience,

if you pay attention and if you live long enough.

 

Become this experience. Support it and add to it.

 

Things like morality - they are ideas, without a fixed existence.

But they have a kind of life of their own  -

ideas, good and bad, can last for a long time,

but this does not make them reliable.

 

Do what is here in front of you to do without moralizing.

 

Get over this fear of life and of death.