Aren't we opportunists

[Mig]

I was wondering if we aren't all opportunists in life?? I see many so called successful people being just opportunists and then claim whatever to sustain their success. If you aren't then you become another prey and here it comes the victim. I have noticed that as I was job hunting and I was playing cat and mouse, me being the cat and the job or the interviewer the mouse. And then, what it could be the Daoist perspective on this?

 

Thanks

[Marblehead]

The Taoist Sage refuses nothing.

 

An opportunity is offered, the opportunity is accepted (as long as it is within our capacity for accepting).

 

[Mig]

5 hours ago, Marblehead said:

The Taoist Sage refuses nothing.

 

An opportunity is offered, the opportunity is accepted (as long as it is within our capacity for accepting).

 

Could you give me an example of a situation?

[Marblehead]

2 hours ago, Mig said:

Could you give me an example of a situation?

Maybe.  Let's see ...

 

 

Let's say I have a job.  I enjoy the work.  I am offered a job that would pay me significantly more but while it does not directly conflict with my values it is not something I would actually want to do on a long term basis.  However, with the additional pay I can make extra payments on my house mortgage and pay the loan of much faster.

 

Priorities must now be set.  I will be working for someone else regardless and this requires my time.  If I accept the offer I can pay the house off in half the time.  At that time I would have no debt and live totally free after putting away some savings.  Remaining would require me to be committed to others twice as long.

 

I prefer my freedom.  I accept the offer.

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

On 2018-09-28 at 5:55 AM, Mig said:

I have noticed that as I was job hunting and I was playing cat and mouse, me being the cat and the job or the interviewer the mouse.

 

That sounds like one of the 36 Stratagems: ”Reverse host and guest.” Not a bad play in a job interview sitch where the interviewer usually ensures they seem like an looming authority doling out pearls in the form of breadcrumbs and aloof skepticism... If you found a way to get the upper hand with HR that is good.

 

Opportunity can be there or not. If you see it and have the chance, skill and timing to seize it, is it a bad thing? If you see possibility and means somewhere it sounds like a good place to set up shop.

Successful peeps have succeeded, not all of them are predators though afaik. There’s plenty successful individuals who appear to have just enough to lead a frugal but rich life without consuming their environment like fire.

 

A lot of the dynamics in the world of 10k things are some sort of conflict in a way. Survival is one example, even the trees in the forest are at ”war” with eachother when they stand close or grow big enough, fighting for as much sunlight as they can.

 

Trees know no measure but their actions together ensue they either get enough or die trying, thereby they are regulated. So another daoist perspective on the matter would be that the universe treats everything like straw dogs. It could be virtuous to take enough and do enough for a given purpose, especially as many of us as humans are capable of determining what enough is and how to put it to good, nay excellent use.

I’m aiming at that quote from DDJ where the Sage retires when the work is completed, hoping i’ll end up hitting some branch of a bush or sapling here

 

Idk if it helps?

Edited October 1, 2018 by Rocky Lionmouth
Clarification

[Aetherous]

I don't know about Daoism, but Seneca said that "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity". So if you want to have good luck and success, you both have to work hard toward goals, but then also seize any opportunities that present themselves. Rinse and repeat.

Opportunist has a negative connotation...but recognizing opportunities and taking them is very positive.

[wandelaar]

Yes - Taoist tactics are very opportunistic! A (philosophical) Taoist is continually looking for opportunities to get the things necessary for a peaceful and happy life done with the least amount of energy and/or trouble. But a Taoist doesn't care about wealth or fame, so he doesn't need to sell his soul to reach his goals. So although he doesn't care about petty morality, he isn't immoral either because he doesn't need to be so. To avoid unnecessary trouble he will usually follow current customs as long as they don't obstruct his preferred sober way of life.

[dosa]

弱之勝强, 柔之勝剛, 天下莫不知, 莫能行
As Laozi says,
There is nothing softer and weaker than water in the world. There is nothing better than water to attack something hard and strong. Nothing can be exchanged for water.

You are not sure about Laozi, but I fully understand the meaning of your words.

[Mig]

On 9/30/2018 at 10:05 PM, Aetherous said:

I don't know about Daoism, but Seneca said that "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity". So if you want to have good luck and success, you both have to work hard toward goals, but then also seize any opportunities that present themselves. Rinse and repeat.

Opportunist has a negative connotation...but recognizing opportunities and taking them is very positive.

 

I see as you prepare yourself always having an eye of each opportunity and seize it. That's why I see being opportunist as well as predators do. I have noticed that poverty or street smart makes more aware of becoming opportunist. Now what do you mean about working hard, what is working hard, isn't better working smarter than harder more efficient? Even thieves master this one too. Yesterday, i was at the gym taking a shower, I put my shampoo by the shower then went to dry my swimming suit and when I came back a guy was already using my shampoo. He said, he thought nobody was using it. If you go to a third world country you can see how people have to be alert and opportunistic.

[Mig]

On 10/1/2018 at 2:22 AM, wandelaar said:

Yes - Taoist tactics are very opportunistic! A (philosophical) Taoist is continually looking for opportunities to get the things necessary for a peaceful and happy life done with the least amount of energy and/or trouble. But a Taoist doesn't care about wealth or fame, so he doesn't need to sell his soul to reach his goals. So although he doesn't care about petty morality, he isn't immoral either because he doesn't need to be so. To avoid unnecessary trouble he will usually follow current customs as long as they don't obstruct his preferred sober way of life.

 

Why looking for opportunities, doesn't that sound much egotistical? Why peaceful and happy? I don't see much peace in life, there is always struggle, some more than other, I eat foods and I can see destruction and nothing peaceful. I am trying to understand as the more I see the more I realize I need to be smarter and take advantage of what I need not necessary follow the rules.

[Mig]

On 10/1/2018 at 4:20 AM, dosa said:

弱之勝强, 柔之勝剛, 天下莫不知, 莫能行
As Laozi says,
There is nothing softer and weaker than water in the world. There is nothing better than water to attack something hard and strong. Nothing can be exchanged for water.

You are not sure about Laozi, but I fully understand the meaning of your words.

Water itself is not relevant, what is important is the force behind, the energy to make it calmer, still or violent or aggressive

[wandelaar]

20 minutes ago, Mig said:

Why looking for opportunities, doesn't that sound much egotistical? Why peaceful and happy?

 

You don't have to! Some people like a life of extremes and/or of great accomplishments. That will naturally involve more struggle. And if you like to fight, why not? But than you're not on the Taoist way promoted by Lao tzu. 

 

Quote

I don't see much peace in life, there is always struggle, some more than other, I eat foods and I can see destruction and nothing peaceful. I am trying to understand as the more I see the more I realize I need to be smarter and take advantage of what I need not necessary follow the rules.

 

When you don't need much, you will have less struggle. But as I said, when you like to fight you could chose to follow another more heroic (and less Laoist) road.

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by wandelaar

[Aetherous]

23 minutes ago, Mig said:

Now what do you mean about working hard, what is working hard, isn't better working smarter than harder more efficient?

 

Yes definitely working smarter is best...the point is just that "preparation" involves doing work of some sort. Doing what's required and then some.

For instance, someone could go out at night, and wait for the opportunity of a woman smiling at him...but if he didn't shower for 3 days, is obese, with holes in his clothing, it's very likely not going to help. He wasn't prepared.

Or someone could be looking for ways to make more money, and they see this great opportunity that pays five times as much as what most people make...but if they didn't get the right degree or experience required for that position, they won't be able to seize that opportunity. They also weren't prepared.

So we have to "do what it takes"...that's what I mean by working hard.

Let's say someone had a minimum wage job. They could spend most of their waking hours working there, and they could be the best employee, working their butt off. But if that job doesn't help them gain experience that would help in applying for other better jobs, and if their employer is dumb and doesn't recognize a good worker, the hard work will go to waste. That's working harder but not smarter...so we definitely have to be smart.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

18 hours ago, Mig said:

Now what do you mean about working hard, what is working hard, isn't better working smarter than harder more efficient? Even thieves master this one too. 

 

Not all thieves, only the dedicated ones. It takes hard work to develop clever and smart methods, even more hard work to master them.

It is said that lazyness is the mother of all clever ideas, but clever ideas and solutions are the mother of the most painstaking and dedicated worki believe.

 

Just grabbing something isnt clever or streetwise, thats just plain old opportunism of basest form. It takes balls to do what your shampoo-moocher did because it could just as well end with getting punched. But a clever person would have waited for you to come back and ask to borrow some with a smile.

 

I think that where hardship is great and resourcs are fewer i think people learn to share and defend theirs faster, but also accepting the conditions in order to survive is a prerequisite.

 

You see pain and suffering, war and thievery. Good, you are not blind. You recognize the multifaceted aspects of benefit, compassion and cruelty and you can place yourself in this context and see your own faults and merits. Good, you have awareness and empathy in measures that are rare.

I’m not trying to be condescending or dismissive, what the OP describes is very much a reality.

 

There is more than enough reason to look upon the world and cry for it. But the same could be said for looking and smiling. Neither are of higher virtue or merit than the other and both are good for ourselves and everybody else in the long run. There is a lot of everything everywhere, peace and harmony are sometimes harder to percieve when compared to cruelty, famine and suffering.

 

What was it that Zen person quipped... Something like ”Pain is mandatory, suffering is optional.” maybe? Words to consider when the forest seems dark and you have to rest because the terrain is treacherous.