creating karma

[whitesilk]

5 hours ago, s1va said:

I think my choice of words, 'pleasure' here means something else to some others

 

I read from the gita as doing for the sake of doing. The term pleasure or karma was not there, as far as I remember.

Edited October 4, 2018 by whitesilk

[whitesilk]

5 hours ago, s1va said:

Gita does not use the word 'pleasure' in this context

oops

[Pilgrim]

I'll be back later client issues....

[whitesilk]

I've gotten a headache from reading the first page of posts. The simple question was simply answered with the first post by Jeff, and now I have a headache. How did the other three pages come into form? Could someone give me a sparknotes of the forth and back of the past few hours?

Edited October 4, 2018 by whitesilk

[whitesilk]

I'm impelled to call each of you wrong in viewpoint. Only a Buddha would know the answer to my question. That's my Buddha nature speaking, if it is still there.

 

I'm being harsh because there shouldn't be five hours of created karma on the topic of creating karma.

Edited October 4, 2018 by whitesilk

[whitesilk]

4 hours ago, rex said:

To create full karma you must have:

 

1) someone or something to be the object of your action;

2) the intention to carry out the action;

3) actually carrying out the action;

4) rejoice in having carried out the action.

 

found one answer that is straight forward. Thank You. I disagree though.

[s1va]

32 minutes ago, whitesilk said:

I'm impelled to call each of you wrong in viewpoint. Only a Buddha would know the answer to my question. That's my Buddha nature speaking, if it is still there.

 

I'm being harsh because there shouldn't be five hours of created karma on the topic of creating karma.

 

Some of us just need an excuse in the name of topic to discuss.  Trust me, some good can come out of this  (but may be mostly not) 

 

[whitesilk]

My hopes are that the translator would like me to 'expound' this sutra quote.

'An ancient said: "If you want to seek buddhahood by creating karma, then [for you the concept] buddha is the harbinger of birth and death."

 

We must first admit we are in mara, and we do not have the way out. We must be lead out. I am personally of the belief that we cannot 'seek' buddhahood. The seeking itself to attain it creates karma.

 

BTW, the birds love Randy Bachman, S1va, there is a topic, talk amongst yourselves.

Edited October 4, 2018 by whitesilk

[ilumairen]

4 hours ago, whitesilk said:

I'm impelled to call each of you wrong in viewpoint. Only a Buddha would know the answer to my question. That's my Buddha nature speaking, if it is still there.

 

I'm being harsh because there shouldn't be five hours of created karma on the topic of creating karma.

 

Should or shouldn't really don't come into play.. unless, of course, you have a preference for such. 

 

Sometimes people just feel like communicating. 

[Pilgrim]

6 hours ago, s1va said:

 

Where is what? Addiction? Not sure.

 

What you described fits my definition of addiction.  Doesn't matter what happened later or when.   Everything transforms sooner or later.  That doesn't mean they were not what they were at one snapshot.

Your definition is one of supposition not life experience. But thats ok keep acting until you get the role down one day you will be your talk and more.

 

You are sincere and try hard I like that. Ok done playing  fortune cookie.

 

[Pilgrim]

4 hours ago, whitesilk said:

I've gotten a headache from reading the first page of posts. The simple question was simply answered with the first post by Jeff, and now I have a headache. How did the other three pages come into form? Could someone give me a sparknotes of the forth and back of the past few hours?

Sorry just love stirring the pot. 😀

[ilumairen]

6 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

I am really just trying to make the distinction of the differences in thoughts on Karma and the nature of desires between different traditions.  The Tao Te Ching would agree with Buddha regarding being desireless...

 

Chapter 1

...

Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name; This appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery.

 

Chapter 64

...

People usually fail when they are on the verge of success. So give as much care to the end as to the beginning; Then there will be no failure. Therefore the wise seek freedom from desire. They do not collect precious things. They learn not to hold on to ideas. They bring people back to what they have lost.

 

 

 

Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring one can see the manifestations. These two spring from the same source. 

 

I think it is the same source part that is pertinent. And if you wish to draw correlations to Buddhism, would suggest looking at the Flight of the Garuda, and the subject of one taste. 

[s1va]

25 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

Your definition is one of supposition not life experience. But thats ok keep acting until you get the role down one day you will be your talk and more.

 

You are sincere and try hard I like that. Ok done playing  fortune cookie.

 

Oh I have what I consider  good experience with smoking for about nearly 9 years.  Used to smoke a pack of cigarettes (or more) every day.  So, I know something about addiction.  

 

I quit on 2001, it's been 17 years now.  I could relate to your experience, and it sounded  like addiction in my view, as I stated earlier.

[Pilgrim]

2 hours ago, s1va said:

Oh I have what I consider  good experience with smoking for about nearly 9 years.  Used to smoke a pack of cigarettes (or more) every day.  So, I know something about addiction.  

 

I quit on 2001, it's been 17 years now.  I could relate to your experience, and it sounded  like addiction in my view, as I stated earlier.

9 years oh my goodness you were just getting started.😁

 

Just kidding. 

 

Habit. You had a habit, I had a habit.

 

Addiction is different. Addiction is out of control.

 

Habit which one enjoys is different.

 

I recognized illness brought on by smoking. Bronchitus, Pneumonia. 

 

Best to stop. 

 

I did.

 

Addiction is different.

 

illness recognized.

 

Cause known.

 

Continues anyway.

 

My Father knew better,  died of lung cancer age 55.  That my friend is addiction. 

 

It is kind of like the definition of insanity. Doing rhe same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

[s1va]

9 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

9 years oh my goodness you were just getting started.😁

 

Just kidding. 

 

Habit. You had a habit, I had a habit.

 

Addiction is different. Addiction is out of control.

 

Habit which one enjoys is different.

 

I recognized illness brought on by smoking. Bronchitus, Pneumonia. 

 

Best to stop. 

 

I did.

 

Addiction is different.

 

illness recognized.

 

Cause known.

 

Continues anyway.

 

My Father knew better,  died of lung cancer age 55.  That my friend is addiction. 

 

It is kind of like the definition of insanity. Doing rhe same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

 

I get what you mean.  In the way you describe, it can be classified as habit.  It's all about the way we describe and explain things, isn't it?

 

After I quit smoking, I used to occasionally get smoking dreams for several months.  Later it became less in frequency.  But, I used to get them once in a while for years.  This shows how strong the subconscious impressions were and how strong the resulting craving was.  Such powerful craving is addiction in my definition, no matter what you explain.  But I do get the line of your argument.

[rex]

16 hours ago, whitesilk said:

 

found one answer that is straight forward. Thank You. I disagree though.

If  you fancy delving into Buddhist views of karma and every other opinion  - though given the white noise in this thread, perhaps not -  then the TB search function will bring up a few interesting posts and threads.

 

For example:

 

and:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marblehead]

Yeah, most of the time when I see the word "karma" my mind thinks "cause and effect".  Keeps me out of a few disagreements.

 

[ilumairen]

2 hours ago, s1va said:

 

I get what you mean.  In the way you describe, it can be classified as habit.  It's all about the way we describe and explain things, isn't it?

 

After I quit smoking, I used to occasionally get smoking dreams for several months.  Later it became less in frequency.  But, I used to get them once in a while for years.  This shows how strong the subconscious impressions were and how strong the resulting craving was.  Such powerful craving is addiction in my definition, no matter what you explain.  But I do get the line of your argument.

 

We humans do this thing. We have an experience, and a responce/reaction to said experience, and then we believe our responce/reaction is indicative of how others will respond/react to the same or similar experience. However, responce and/or reaction is often predicated by [insert playful drumroll and laughter] ... karma.

[s1va]

45 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

We humans do this thing. We have an experience, and a responce/reaction to said experience, and then we believe our responce/reaction is indicative of how others will respond/react to the same or similar experience. 

 

I get what you say.  I was describing my experience and understand fully well other's experiences will be different.  I did not state or imply that others will respond or experience in the same way.

 

But, there are also patterns and there are things like similarities, and learning from others experience.  It is possible to infer meaning from a deceptive experience to see if it fits into a broad categorization like addiction, without everyone having to respond in similar ways at all times.

[ilumairen]

23 hours ago, Jonesboy said:

 

Not at all. You could replace smoking with the desire to be right in forums or to fight a wrong or to respond to negative comments. While not an addiction there is a desire that motivates the behavior. I have found driving and forums are excellent examples of noticing such attachments.

 

So, I've spent some time considering what you've presented, and there may have been some misunderstanding. 

 

What I intended to refer to was the 'mind weight' placed on a specific action - the amount of baggage being carried around. And that one individual who is judging another's actions, may actually be carrying more in relation to said action than the person carrying out the action.

[ilumairen]

 

5 minutes ago, s1va said:

 

I get what you say.  I was describing my experience and understand fully well other's experiences will be different.  I did not state or imply that others will respond or experience in the same way.

 

"After I quit smoking, I used to occasionally get smoking dreams for several months.  Later it became less in frequency.  But, I used to get them once in a while for years.  This shows how strong the subconscious impressions were and how strong the resulting craving was.  Such powerful craving is addiction in my definition, no matter what you explain"

 

If the bolded and italicized part is not meant to convey your own dream experience negating the shared understanding and experience of another, then please help me understand. 

 

5 minutes ago, s1va said:

 

But, there are also patterns and there are things like similarities, and learning from others experience.  It is possible to infer meaning from a deceptive experience to see if it fits into a broad categorization like addiction, without everyone having to respond in similar ways at all times.

 

Of course it's possible to learn from the experiences of others. 

[Jonesboy]

1 minute ago, ilumairen said:

 

So, I've spent some time considering what you've presented, and there may have been some misunderstanding. 

 

What I intended to refer to was the 'mind weight' placed on a specific action - the amount of baggage being carried around. And that one individual who is judging another's actions, may actually be carrying more in relation to said action than the person carrying out the action.

 

I wasn't trying to judge. The topic was smoking so I used that as an example of the underlying desire/attachment as an example.

 

Yes, I am familiar with the addiction to smoking but really any attachment could be used to replace it as I pointed out earlier.

 

Buddhism is very clear on the topic. I highly doubt you would see the Buddhist accepting someone as a Buddha that smoked a half pack a day.

 

I understand if people disagree.

[whitesilk]

17 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

Buddhism is very clear on the topic. I highly doubt you would see the Buddhist accepting someone as a Buddha that smoked a half pack a day.

 

Presuming that I'm crazy enough to start the path of smoking, the way or path as we may term it regardless of how, exists whether we journey there or not.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by whitesilk

[Jonesboy]

11 minutes ago, whitesilk said:

 

Presuming that I'm crazy, the way or path as we may term it regardless of how exists whether we journey there or not.

 

I am not a Buddhist, so maybe they would think you are crazy.. I would just disagree with you.

 

It is there tradition and beliefs, I just respect them.

 

 

[ilumairen]

17 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

I wasn't trying to judge. The topic was smoking so I used that as an example of the underlying desire/attachment as an example.

 

Yes, I am familiar with the addiction to smoking but really any attachment could be used to replace it as I pointed out earlier.

 

Buddhism is very clear on the topic. I highly doubt you would see the Buddhist accepting someone as a Buddha that smoked a half pack a day.

 

I understand if people disagree.

 

There are subjects I'd like to discuss, and your posts sometimes provide a gateway to the possibility of discussion of these topics I find interesting. In my first post, I did playfully poke at you, although I was hoping the wink would indicate the nature of the post. In the second I was careful to keep it more general. 

 

And yes, you are judging, and that's ok. This is another topic I find interesting.