Kiai Master - Defeated.

[Stigweard]

First Rule of Wizardry:

 

"People will believe any lie. Either because they really want to or because they are afraid it is true."

[minkus]

Shi Ming was a real fighter even he had such Qi emission powers. He was undefeated at least that was his reputation, and he could prove the violence of the fights in which he had been involved by the missing teeth from his mouth. My teacher was a student of Shi Ming more than fifteen years ago. He said that all these demonstrations works only on their pupils and Shi Ming himself was very conscious about that, BUT when my teacher was a beginner student of Shi Ming asked him to perform such Qi transmission on him without cooperation. He had in mind to resist his teacher with all his power but when Shi Ming discharged an amount of Qi in him, he felt like a claw gripped his heart. So, he become a believer, but yes such demonstration are a little bit exaggerated but does not mean that they're not real at all.

 

Yes thats what i think also. I doubt alot of people will be able to use there body energy to "deflect" attackers from a meter away, maybe the oversensitive student yes ..

 

Im convinced it is real that you can attack someone's organs (or a specific one) with energy wich is way more dangerous, i think it takes a long time to develop this.

 

Another possible use of subtle energy is to project emotions onto your opponent wich may confuse him.

[Gerard]

There is no bull in here:

 

 

76 years old and still going strong.

 

Wang Bo from Shanghai performing Yang, Chen style Taijquan and Songxi Pai Internal Boxing of Siming.

 

Funny all that Chen leg stamping.

 

 

This is a classic:

 

 

and this one shows the applications of his simplified Yang style:

 

 

Chen Man Ching

Edited February 8, 2008 by durkhrod chogori

[jan1107]

Masutatsu Oyama - Videos

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MapyZq4YIo...feature=related

 

 

(the music of the last one is the best- just kidding)

 

Masutatsu Oyama - story

 

http://www.masutatsuoyama.com/masoyama.htm

 

i think mas oyama offered a lot of many for anyone who could beat him. also he accepted a hell lot of challengers. interesting story. worth reading.

 

SOME CLIPS ALREADY SEND HERE ARE REALLY COOL. THANKS!!!

 

Love Jan.

Edited February 8, 2008 by jan1107

[Gareth_W]

This is a good active Forum.

I like it.

 

I only wish I could generate this kind of traffic to my own forum (Thinkers Corner Small plug there ;-)

 

Ill go over the other videos posted later - cant be bothered to do much work today!

Hangover on a Friday = limited work.

 

I have another good clip thats along the same sort of lines.

A master who zapps his students, who fly off him, and bounce up and down while the energy is running through them - Its ridiculous.

[freeform]

A master who zapps his students, who fly off him, and bounce up and down while the energy is running through them - Its ridiculous.

 

Gareth - it seems ridiculous, but there is something actually going on here... the students are in a receptive state and when the master passes energy they react in that way... it's 'real' - in that there is a real deep-level connection between master and student - it's nothing more 'far out' than if regular, professional dance partners managed to perfectly dance completely new steps with only the lead knowing the steps - it's not acting and pretending, but it's also not Dragonball Z type stuff (using Buddy's terminology)...

[Pero]

Yeah, this is video is just sad to me, the guy's life is probably ruined, it seemed like he really believed he would be able to do this on anyone.

 

I used to this kind of thing, couple of years back. I moved people without touching and people moved me. Tried a knock out without touching a couple times. Fun stuff. It's what attracted me to Ryu Kyu Kempo, the work with energies. My club is member of DKI, which I imagine Buddy knows haha...

Anyway, at the time I thought I was using energy to do all these things. But now I doubt it. It's more likely it was simply a form of hypnosis or something. That said, I still believe this could be done with energy, it just would take a lot of training.

[Smile]

A better view:

 

 

 

7jf3Gc2a0_8

[minkus]

bloody

[freeform]

That said, I still believe this could be done with energy, it just would take a lot of training.

 

I met an old Mongolian man once that could demonstrate a very cool skill - I was a kid, and I'm not sure if he was a martial artist or not (I think he did wrestling at least) - he was traveling around with a soviet boxing team, he was the healer giving massages, healing bruises for the boxers and stuff...

 

The best way to describe it is that he could, at will, project a real 'intenseness' and the body would just reflexively get out of the way - it's like he would trigger a flight reflex... he demonstrated it on several martial artists, and on me too... he would stand there and ask me to step towards him - so I would step closer and suddenly this intense fear would take over and I had to step back... with the adults he actually stepped towards them and it seemed to have a very strong and obvious effect - they would try and hold it together, and eventually cave in and jump out the way (one proud guy was resisting a lot, you could see afterwards he was red and sweaty, and was in nervous fits of laughter)

 

This guy was very cool - as a kid, I remember I was really curious about him, he had a real gentleness to him...

[agharta]

I've posted this a couple of times before, but I'll mention it again. I studied with a Tzu Jan Men teacher (natural systems) for several years. I never knew he had "chi" powers, he never mentioned them or demonstrated. One day during class, he rolled up his sleeve and said "grab my arm". I tried, but I never got my hands closer than 6 inches from his arm. Instead, I went flying across the room, landed on the floor, screaming and holding my belly. He never touched me. However, I am pretty sure he trained for decades to get that level of skill. He also mentioned a time when his most advanced student was attacking him so quickly during practice that he had no chance to respond with a physical level defense. He did some kind of chi defense, and the top of the student's forearm sort of exploded, he said it looked like someone had taken a hypodermic needle and stabbed the buy all over his forearm, and blood flew all over.

 

There is some weird stuff in Chinese martial arts. There are probably more fakers than actual people with these skills, but there are at least a few systems that teach these kinds of abilities.

[SFJane]

I won't even try to speculate as to what is happening in the video where numerous students are flailing and falling every which way. I call that amusing.

 

Take two people are revving up their chi doing whatever, tai chi, standing, walking the circle.

 

They are both reasonably sensitive to chi and after they are warmed up they stand opposite each other holding one or both hand up inches from each other. They feel the pressure and start taking one step back each until they can just barely feel it. Depending on how yang they were, maybe 5 feet, maybe even ten.

 

Then they take turns just sending more intent into one hand while breathing and you basically send a pulse to the other person. Very very subtle. If that person allows themselves to give way to the other person's pulse in a proportionate reaction. Like turning the hip in push hands. Then the person receiving the pulse can sway a tiny bit back.

 

Then that person does it back, sending a pulse to the other person who responds, only when she actually feels the pulse, without anticipation and reacts only as much as was felt. That person sways back a tiny but noticeable amount.

 

Then they play with it slowly pulling and pushing each other via chi projection from the hand. They can try closings and absorbing and see if the other person feels a pulling breeze instead of a pushing breeze.

 

Aside from the healing aspect of it, it is a great sensitivity exercise but that is about it.

 

You can stand five feet apart and get really intense and push on each other's hands with your chi in a scene reminiscent of Obi wan and Anakin force pushing on each other in the control room at the end of SW3

 

But no matter how much you push or for how long, you will never blast the other person off their feet.

 

I say this because, out of curiosity or should I say, out of obsessive need I have tested it. When I say tested it, I mean I have spent hundreds of hours trying to move anything by continuous projection or pulse projection or drawing it to myself using draining and closing.

 

I have tried to open doors, lift and flip cars. The whole putting out candles with chi was not impressive to me. People's bodies are not candle flames. Much much more force would have to be trained to move people with chi. I have spent hours projecting my hand around my room, in the back yard trying to move things with chi.

When both arms got too tired to extend anymore, I stood and just used my central channel and projected from my head. I would practice until my mind was literally tired and could not focus. I practiced to the point that my body was physically hungry from the amount of work I spent standing still and just trying to increase my chi projection.

 

I have practiced this for so many hours that I have never met someone that could project from their own hand as long as I can without becoming weak or unfocused first. I have worn out partner after partner trying to get them to move me and me to move them.

 

That example I used of Anakin and Obi wan facing off extending chi from their hands at each other. I have done that until my partner could not hold his or her hand up for another second.

 

It never ever works on matter. It just does not. Not once have I pushed someone away with it.

 

The only time you move someone is when they allow you to. I would never ever rely on it in situation because thus far it can not be used for anything practical.

 

Like I said, I was after much more than gently knocking someone backward or moving a pencil around on a table. I wanted enough juice that if a car came careening onto the sidewalk towards me I could extend my hand and instantly move the car out of my way.

 

In hundreds and hundreds of hours practicing, it just does not work. I practiced long past the point when any other person would have seen the light and given it up. In fact most everyone that has ever done that with me has said that while yes, there is a definite tangible sense of energy there, relatively speaking, it has no real power. No more than the warmth of the sun or a tiny breeze. Certainly nothing strong enough to injure someone in the slightest in any kind of martial engagement cooperative or not.

 

In fact I once asked BKF what would happen if I focused exclusively on that one task. If I tried for 14 hours a day to keep projecting out of my hand, if sooner or later I would be able to move something anything at all. I told him back in 1997 at a retreat, that I had been practicing this since I was about 7 years old. He bid me to try. At the time, it was dinner. The closest thing to my hand about 2 feet away happened to be a salt shaker on a picnic table. I focused about 300% of my energy on it instantly and tried to suck it towards me or push it away or lift it up. It would not happen. I was hardly embarrassed because it was failure to move an object # 857729929

 

I told him that from what I understood of the mind and nei/chi gung. If I kept at it, dedicated ultra seriously, than sooner or later my brain would forge a circuit for it. I said it must be only a matter of time and patience and repetition.

 

BKF said to me "then what? Assuming you eventually become what you are practicing, what have you got? You have become the 800 pound psychic gorilla. What then? What is the purpose? How has that freed your spirit in anyway? What would you do with it?"

 

I said something to the effect of "If I get to 800 lbs it means I can get to 1600 or more."

 

Then he said to me, if my mind and my ego and my spirit was not ready I could destroy myself or others

It sounded like he acknowledged the possibility so I dug a little deeper and asked.

 

"Have you ever met anyone that could do what I am trying to do with chi gung?"

 

He said yes. Somewhere in a remote area of rural China there is a man that can do those things and he is completely insane. He spends all day in solitude and isolation away from all people. He stays drunk morning noon and night.

 

He told me I might succeed and then what? "Once you turn it on, you may not be able to turn it off again."

 

So I moved on.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2008 by SFJane

[Pietro]

This one was sent to me by Alan some time ago:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUiPCbz5nGM

 

I think the background story in japanese is that the game they are playing is to have 4 local celebrities, and the last one who laughs is out. So they make them see some funny stuff, and so we get to see the funny stuff too, which are of course all those 'chi demonstartion'... And I will not tell you more not to spoil you the fun.

 

Loved the lightning bold from the previous post.

 

Also I heard this story (could get the details if someone is interested, again from Alan, but I don't think there is a youtube movie for that) where someone claimed he was able to throw off people with his chi. And someone accepted the challenge. So another person went there with a glass of water. And they faced each other, and the chi master did all his stuff, and all the hii, haa, huu, and the other guy simply moved slowly saying: it's coming, it's coming. And then very simply poured the whole glass on the head of this poor self deluded chap.

Edited February 8, 2008 by Pietro

[Buddy]

free-

What's happening is cooperation. And the end result is the aforementioned video. I don't believe it for a moment (shock) but even it were real, what's the point of learning something that only works on the willing?

 

Here's Derren Brown doing the same thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcqNsihA-Yo

 

The one inch thing I can do zero distance with most parts of my body. It's just fajin.

Edited February 8, 2008 by Buddy

[witch]

You picked the wrong thing to move! You have to pick something with a water affinity, which requires consciousness. Water doesn't work on earth, it works on water.

 

There's a common thing that responds very well to that sort of thing. *sigh* I'll show you levitation! I love men so much.

[SFJane]

First Rule of Wizardry:

 

"People will believe any lie. Either because they really want to or because they are afraid it is true."

 

Another Terry Goodkind fan

/wave

[Pero]

The best way to describe it is that he could, at will, project a real 'intenseness' and the body would just reflexively get out of the way - it's like he would trigger a flight reflex... he demonstrated it on several martial artists, and on me too... he would stand there and ask me to step towards him - so I would step closer and suddenly this intense fear would take over and I had to step back... with the adults he actually stepped towards them and it seemed to have a very strong and obvious effect - they would try and hold it together, and eventually cave in and jump out the way (one proud guy was resisting a lot, you could see afterwards he was red and sweaty, and was in nervous fits of laughter)

 

Interesting. Maybe he knew how to project emotions (which in general are "contagious"), or just developed such a strong intent.

 

free-

What's happening is cooperation. And the end result is the aforementioned video. I don't believe it for a moment (shock) but even it were real, what's the point of learning something that only works on the willing?

 

Here's Derren Brown doing the same thing:

 

It's not cooperation. I doubt that DB told the guy in private, "hey, just cooperate and pretend to be punched in the stomach", this would be cooperation for me. Or I have I different idea of cooperation in my mind than you.

But what is the point if it works only on the willing is a good question... Well, it can be fun.

 

Anyway, here's another interesting video from DB:

 

qEuKgEjwi6A

 

Anyone know how to explain this? Freeform?

 

(edit: finally found how to embed )

Edited February 8, 2008 by Pero

[Pietro]

Interesting. Maybe he knew how to project emotions (which in general are "contagious"), or just developed such a strong intent.

It's not cooperation. I doubt that DB told the guy in private, "hey, just cooperate and pretend to be punched in the stomach", this would be cooperation for me. Or I have I different idea of cooperation in my mind than you.

But what is the point if it works only on the willing is a good question... Well, it can be fun.

 

Anyway, here's another interesting video from DB:

 

 

Anyone know how to explain this? Freeform?

I would accept the staring challenge. Right now. No problem. I was only worred that you could not even blink your eyes as he says, but he did rapidly the eyes, at some point. Blinking the eyes rapidly every now and then is necessary to keep them moist. But if you are allowed to do that, you are centered and you know how to shield yourself you can basically remain for a looong time.

[Buddy]

You're right, what Derren is doing isn't. The others were. Derren's a very impressive trickster. Here he explains what he does (but not how).

 

I would as well. Xingyi gazing practice gave me that ability. Intense, though.

Edited February 8, 2008 by Buddy

[Pero]

Yeah, but how do you guys know that you wouldn't react the same way the people in the video did?

 

 

What is the purpose of Xingyi gazing practice?

 

BTW Buddy, it comes as a shock to me that you're such a sceptic when your own daughter talks to fish.

 

 

You're right, what Derren is doing isn't. The others were. Derren's a very impressive trickster. Here he explains what he does (but not how).

 

Actually, from reading a bit about him online, he's not really using that much NLP. He's a mentalist. So basically it seems he is using NLP, but in fact it's just a trick. NLP is mostly a cover up. Or so I read.

[freeform]

Anyone know how to explain this? Freeform?

 

 

yeah - he does a covert induction (puting someone in a hypnotic state) - it starts from the moment when he tells the person to 'come and stand here' - they do - they're already following his lead. With the guy with the hat - he does something with his hand - it's called a pattern interrupt - look at it closely - he waves his hand up and down gently untill it stays in the air... how he gets them to feel ill, i dont know - I suspect he just leaves out a bit in the film where he explains what's going on to the crowd and gives subtle suggestions ("don't allow your eyes to sting" - "I would stare in the mirror untill I would feel ill in the stomach") - something along those lines...

 

Here is an influence trick you can all learn to do: practice breathing exactly like someone else - you do need a lot of practice, but if you decide to do it, you can do this: on public transport, waiting in a queue, on the plane, wherever - use the periphery of your vision and start copying the breathing pattern of your target - by breathing pattern I mean the tempo, the depth, the area in the lungs breathed into etc. when you're completely in rhythm, just hold your breath - and watch the surprise on the target's face as they hold their breath not knowing why...

 

breathing is just one level - heart rate, pulse, facial tonus, blinking, eye accessing cues, posture, movement internal rhythm, even metaprograms (the basic building blocks of personality) all can be 'paced' (followed) - this is how you get 'cooperation' using Buddy's terminology - but it's cooperation beyond normal awareness... pace two or three of these things successfully when next to someone you're attracted to and remember the feeling of the tingle in your lips that you feel when you're about to kiss someone you really like - then watch what happens

[Pietro]

 

breathing is just one level - heart rate, pulse, facial tonus, blinking, eye accessing cues, posture, movement internal rhythm, even metaprograms (the basic building blocks of personality) all can be 'paced' (followed) - this is how you get 'cooperation' using Buddy's terminology - but it's cooperation beyond normal awareness... pace two or three of these things successfully when next to someone you're attracted to and remember the feeling of the tingle in your lips that you feel when you're about to kiss someone you really like - then watch what happens

I've seen quite a lot of discussions in the PU community about those techniques. But the general agreement was that they would not work. Did you got them to work yourself?

 

P.

[Buddy]

The PU community?

[Pietro]

The PU community?

Pick Up. Those are the people who when the internet started, started on news groups (the infamous alt.seduction.fast ) to give each other tips on how to pick up women. Eventually they grew into a huge community with their own internal culture, schools, gurus, wars, and sacred texts. Well, one of those gurus (some would say one of the first, or even the first) was Ross Jeffries, who was an NLP guy, and is described in various book putting women in a slight trance to give them a slight push into falling for him. Many people don't like his methods, but leaving aside the ethical sideof it, the pragmatic one is equally interesting. Many people never managed to actually get that much success with NLP in a PU setting.

[Buddy]

Uh, ok. Did it help (with females)?

 

"What is the purpose of Xingyi gazing practice?"

 

I don't mean to be arcane but it's not something I'm going to talk about on the internet.