Kiai Master - Defeated.

[Gareth_W]

Hi All.

 

I apologize if this has been posted or debated before, I did search before posting.

I stumbled across this clip today which I had not seen before.

 

 

Its an apparent KIAI Master.

This master claimed to have never been beaten in over 200 fights in Vale Tudo.

 

There is small montage of clips at the start of the video of him in training, apparently knocking down multiple opponents with his Chi powers.

 

He put up $5000 dollars as a challenge that he could apparently beat any MMA fighter.

 

I will let you watch the result!

 

What do you make of this?

[wudangspirit]

That's pretty funny,

 

I have yet to see anyone with that kind of power even in China. However, I know there are stories about old masters with that kind of skill. However, in today's times those skills have been lost to most. Not saying that there aren't any masters out there who can do this but those masters will probably never reveal that.

 

Wudangspirit

 

Hi All.

 

I apologize if this has been posted or debated before, I did search before posting.

I stumbled across this clip today which I had not seen before.

 

 

Its an apparent KIAI Master.

This master claimed to have never been beaten in over 200 fights in Vale Tudo.

 

There is small montage of clips at the start of the video of him in training, apparently knocking down multiple opponents with his Chi powers.

 

He put up $5000 dollars as a challenge that he could apparently beat any MMA fighter.

 

I will let you watch the result!

 

What do you make of this?

[Gareth_W]

So why are all his students dropping to the floor at his sweeping arm gestures???

 

Is it a form of conformity?

Is it acting?

Is it a case of "if you believe in it enough, it affects you" ?

Or is this clip a complete fast?

 

I believe in Chi, and I trust a lot of footage of various masters on the internet, but when I see examples like this, where scores of trainees are literally bouncing of an old master, I find it very hard to believe...

 

Unless witnessed personally, you have to go on your own judgment...

 

This guy looked shocked when he was hit the first time, then he went down like a sack of bricks.

 

Has his whole life of martial practice been in vein?

[MASTERforge]

I never get tired of these.

 

Just priceless.

 

Kiai (chi) has its place and that's for health benefits. outside of this in terns of zapping people. its not so great!

 

We should get a forum dedicated to Jedi dreamers. So when they come here claiming levitation, and lightning bolts from their fingers we could politely direct them to the forum.

 

Maybe it will save them thousands of dollars and years of wasted time and effort.

[Gareth_W]

I just dont see how this guy has managed to delude himself for so many years.

Maybe his students fear him so much, they fall because they think they should, which in turn gives the master more confidence.

 

Its funny to see an MMA fighter go straight up to him and punch him in the face!

This master has probably not been touched for years!

[Buddy]

I think the video speaks for itself. I avoided posting it because it's just sad.

[Hern Heng]

Qi is real but is scientific, not hocus pocus. i applaud John Chang to having submitted to demonstrations to be openly views. Harvard is currently conducting research on Buddhist monks who dry a series of wet towels through heating their bodies in meditation.

 

There are a LOT of people who can whoop most MMA fighters. Most of the guys on UFC, WEC, etc are not very. Honestly, in two years most beginners can get that good just by taking Muay Thai and BJJ. Some of the more experienced fighters are very good in MMA, but there are a lot of CMA folks who are better and just not interested in that scene.

 

i should also note that some of the most interesting TUF Seasons 1 and 2 guys DID practice internal methods, Iron Palm, Meditation, Elements Meditation, Yoga, etc. They did not seem like they would be able to fight to the macho guys, but they tore them all up.

 

Qi is just energy. Energy is seamless throughout the Universe. There is no scientific debate about this. There are ultimately just different forms of energy and how it is expressed.

 

When people doubt "Qi" they are doubting - usually - people's ability to master it. There is no scientific debate ABOUT the EXISTENCE of Qi (Breath and Energy literally). Do you have energy? Of course. Do you have breath? Of course. Debate is over. The word means nothing else.

 

Mastering it is another topic. As i said, there is at least one study i know of currently at Harvard:

 

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/04.18/09-tummo.html

[SFJane]

come on guys, this kiai master just did not practice hard enough.

 

the real secret is, you have to do 8 pieces of brocade for 6 hours a day for a week,

then you have to do spring forest gong for the same time

then you have to do dragon and tiger and god's playing in the clouds for the same amount of time

then you have to iron shirt chi gung for 3 days, followed by cloud hands

then you do a tai chi long form and make it last 8 hours

then you have to walk the circle 99 times in one direction and 99 times in the other direction on the full moon either during summer or winter solstice, (don't forget all your pearls and the grain path either)

 

then you just hold san ti until you can do this

 

 

don't even bother opening a school or making videos or challenging anything until you can do that

 

the young man is quite cute

Edited February 7, 2008 by SFJane

[doc benway]

I've posted that video here before - I love it. It's an excellent demonstration of the role of psychology in these magic power demonstrations. They always look the same. It's very easy to spot when you've seen a few.

Here is another good one - you must watch the whole thing

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa1nzD-n25Q...feature=related

[Andrei]

How about these videos? Are they real or not?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9QHxMfYGEs

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV7XVoKp1OQ

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONtdMxSk5ws

[doc benway]

 

then you just hold san ti until you can do this

 

 

don't even bother opening a school or making videos or challenging anything until you can do that

 

the young man is quite cute

Hi Jane,

I'm not quite as cute but I can do that. You just can't see or feel it.

[Gareth_W]

Ok, so I think every one is in agreement.

We are all well aware of Chi/Qi and its use.

 

This so called 'Master' had obviously deluded himself over the years.

He probably believed that he really was a master - until the reality check hit home.

 

(And lets face it, that was an easy win too!)

 

But what about his students in the video???

There is another clip here of him in training:

 

 

What are these students doing reacting to his movements??

Do you think they think they really feel something??

 

It must be part of the psychology, they are conforming?

[freeform]

So why are all his students dropping to the floor at his sweeping arm gestures???

 

It's a form of hypnosis...

 

ever clapped because everyone else is clapping? it's kind of like that.

 

What happens is this guy has a bit of chi (everything does) - it's just over the years he's trained his students to react to that chi in a certain way (lose strength, fall over etc)... The students invest a lot of time and money, so for them it pays to follow the master's lead... it's just sad to see him deluding himself that he is doing anything more than "bowing so that the students clap"... it's kind of a little spectacle that feeds his own and his students' egos - it's just he forgot it's a spectacle...

 

I do believe that there are masters who can develop true skill - maybe not throwing people without touching them, but certainly skills that are difficult to explain using standard western methods. The confusing thing is that there is an aspect of hypnosis to this 'real' skill too...

[gendao]

So why are all his students dropping to the floor at his sweeping arm gestures???

When a BJJ teacher demos an armbar on his student - does he resist or play along?

 

Most just play along because resisting would seem rude and possibly a challenge to the teacher's authority. Which is not to say the armbar would absolutely not work, either. Just that it may not work as well (or much at all) against a resisting opponent in real life.

 

Anyways, at least this guy put his money where his mouth is. But, how he became so overconfident in his abilities is a mystery to me... Seems like he should have gotten reality-checked welll before this?

Edited February 7, 2008 by vortex

[Cameron]

It's almost like a super extreme version of Aikido. Where people go down even before they are touched. In Aikido, you offer little or no resistence to your opponent. Some people might think this is a better way to train but alot of martial artistis just think it's bs and doesn't let you train under resistence.

 

As much as I like aikido at some point I tend to agree, if you want to train martial arts you need a resisiting partner atleast once in awhile to see if your techniqe actually works.

 

I mean, it might work on his students but do you think if any of these guys got attacked on the street there attacker would fall down from them raising there hand in the air? I doubt it.

 

I do however, think there is something to this from studying Kunlun and meeting Max and his students. But the way they use it is more for healing and sending out bliss energy. Like Max will somehow magnetically tie his students to the earth or a tree or fence or whatever. No idea how it works and I wouldn't try it in a self defense situation but his students seem to be experiencing something very real.

[gendao]

Yea, I have a hunch that energy transmission can be easily blocked or stopped.

 

One time, I was getting some qi from a healer and inhaled up into my chest (instead of down towards my belly). She got a startled look as the qi seemed to get stopped and "back up" into her. So, I think I inadvertantly blocked her transmission simply with my breathing.

 

And with Kunlun, I am always in full control at any time and could stop any of the kriyas, etc. - if I wanted to. Of course, I don't and just flow with them because they are therapeutic, so why would I?

 

 

But OTOH...I also got 1" soft-punched and knocked off my feet once. This was basically a "pure qi" punch (no real body mechanics involved) and I'm not sure I could have blocked the qi blast. And I was not playing along, either.

 

 

So, it may be that someone can inflate themselves with qi and have great "peng" energy. Which would make their punches much harder and structure much stronger. However, this does not involve actually transmitting energy to another person.

 

Which is a different animal and can probably be fairly easily blocked by that person.

 

I dunno, just a guess..

[witch]

I don't know a thing about martial arts, but in Western astrology there are four elements--earth, air, fire and water. From what I can tell, using chi to fight is attacking on the water and air levels. A person who had a lot of water and air planets in their chart would be susceptible, but a person who was mostly fire or earth would not.

 

For example, I am Pisces rising, a water sign, which means I interact with the world on a water level. I am VERY easily hypnotized. I am so easily hypnotized I go under during movies with hypnosis scenes. For someone like me, having an opponent with these powers would be formidable indeed. Fortunately I also have a lot of earth underneath, so I have a balance. I think it quite likely that students who had a lot of water energy would be attracted to such a master, and of course it would be a very earthy fiery person who would be attracted by the thought of challenging a chi master like that.

[Buddy]

I can't even comment on the lightning one. The others were all cooperation. Interestingly enough the last one was of Shi Ming. I know the long haired American guy. He confirmed my suspicions.

 

I have to say I'm a little surprised at some here. I was thinking that the people that came here were serious investigators of Dao and the like. This stuff is Dragonball-Z

[Andrei]

Shi Ming was a real fighter even he had such Qi emission powers. He was undefeated at least that was his reputation, and he could prove the violence of the fights in which he had been involved by the missing teeth from his mouth. My teacher was a student of Shi Ming more than fifteen years ago. He said that all these demonstrations works only on their pupils and Shi Ming himself was very conscious about that, BUT when my teacher was a beginner student of Shi Ming asked him to perform such Qi transmission on him without cooperation. He had in mind to resist his teacher with all his power but when Shi Ming discharged an amount of Qi in him, he felt like a claw gripped his heart. So, he become a believer, but yes such demonstration are a little bit exaggerated but does not mean that they're not real at all.

Edited February 7, 2008 by steam

[SFJane]

I don't know a thing about martial arts, but in Western astrology there are four elements--earth, air, fire and water. From what I can tell, using chi to fight is attacking on the water and air levels. A person who had a lot of water and air planets in their chart would be susceptible, but a person who was mostly fire or earth would not.

 

For example, I am Pisces rising, a water sign, which means I interact with the world on a water level. I am VERY easily hypnotized. I am so easily hypnotized I go under during movies with hypnosis scenes. For someone like me, having an opponent with these powers would be formidable indeed. Fortunately I also have a lot of earth underneath, so I have a balance. I think it quite likely that students who had a lot of water energy would be attracted to such a master, and of course it would be a very earthy fiery person who would be attracted by the thought of challenging a chi master like that.

 

I am an Aquarius, also a water sign. It's is impossible to hypnotize me. Partly because I am continuously aware on several levels. In fact on occasion people trying to hypnotize me, hypnotized themselves in the process.

 

The way to use chi in a fight is not to stand there and Force push people ineffectively until they bridge the gap and pop you in the face. You use intent to mobilize the chi which may or may not be moving the blood and flowing in the nerves, the nadi and various meridians. If you do it right when you physically contact someone with your body while you are initiating rapid open and closings in your hips legs and spine and coiling, they may be in for a little surprise.

 

As for being easily hypnotized. There is a way to fix that, it just takes time and hard work.

 

There are 3 things I recommend.

 

The first involved basically doing Opening the Energy Gates while standing or sitting. Dissolve down your central channel

 

The second thing is San Ti. Stand and use your continuous awareness to forge a path of complete presence from your feet, to your hand, to across the room

 

The third thing is mirror training.

 

Use a mirror and stare into your own eyes without spacing out. Beat yourself in a staring contest.

 

You want to get rid of gaps in your attention. You will gap and space out. Just keep doing it.

 

In fact you could sit and dissolve, then do san ti, then after you are all charged up from san ti, do the same intention movements while staring into a mirror. Use the mirror as if you were staring into the eyes of opponent and watch yourself critically and honestly for gapping and spacing out.

 

Gapping and spacing out not only makes it easier to trance or fall into hypnotic states, it makes it easy for someone with good timing to literally hit you while you are not paying attention. That gap in attention, that distraction or spacing out can happen over a couple of seconds or in a millisecond which is what happens when people in cars run over people walking in the cross walk on the walk signal. I saw this last week walking down California St here in SF

 

middle aged woman at a dead stop with a passenger in the car. An elderly woman is slowly walking through the intersection.

 

the woman in the car, and I was watching her the entire time. Looked left, directly at the old woman, then looked right, and then turned left and I could see her mouth moving as she was chatting, as she looked right and turned left.

 

She hit the old women, square on the front of her bumper, while the old woman was nearly half way through the marked crosswalk with legal right of way.

 

The woman in the car was not even driving. She was on autopilot. She was so busy in her head with her conversations and what not, she did not see the woman in the cross walk at all. Like a ba gua ghost appearing out of no where, the old woman was suddenly THERE in the crosswalk. The woman in the car had an expression of total shock and surprise, That actually made me angry when I saw her face as I raced over to the old woman sprawled in the crosswalk. The woman in the car was driving an automobile in a dense urban area. She was not paying attention to the fact that was in a car and there were people all around her.

 

The woman in the car could have used 100s of hours of video game training to deal with the spacial distractions of such multitasking. The point is. She was utterly unaware of the slowly moving old woman and plowed right over her. From a dead stop. Complete gapping in attention. That's how a lot of accidents happen. You can focus completely on only so many things until you start not paying full attention to some of those things and you mess up.

 

I digress, to trance out or be hypnotized, you have to be doing the reverse of paying complete attention with total presence and alertness. You have to be gapping. I can't see how that has any healing, meditative or martial value at all. In fact removing gaps in your attention will help you feel your energy blocks and those in others better. It will help you remain still and centered better, and it will help you dominate in push hands when you fa jin people after listening to them and waiting patiently for them to gap out for you. It will definitely help you to NOT run over people in the middle of the road while you are looking at them, without actually seeing them, because you are elsewhere. removing your gaps in your awareness and presence will make it all but impossible to trance out or by hypnotized by anything or anyone ever again.

 

Now if you get to the taoist alchemy part where you are literally drawing different kinds of energy into your overall chi matrix as it were you can control whether or not you are an earth person, a water person, a fire person or whatever. You can utterly decide what your energy qualities will be and make them that way.

 

When you take over every aspect of your chi and mind. When you try to actualize the 8 energy bodies described in BKF Water Method teachings, you will not be the sum of a random astrological roll of the die.

 

I noticed that for 20 years of my life, astrological stuff seemed to have a certain projective accuracy about my abilities and traits and destiny. In other words, my horoscope seemed somewhat accurate most of the time. This was reflected in the Tarot as well.

 

After I started practicing alchemy, my horoscope and astrological traits were practically meaningless and had no bearing on me, my life or my reality. Once I took control over my own energy interactions, I effectively took myself off the astrology table and started writing my own horoscope as I acquired traits and abilities and behaviors that none of my charts indicated was standard for my sign. All my readings have been inaccurate or nonsensical since I took up taoist meditation.

[gendao]

I can't see how that has any healing, meditative or martial value at all.

I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but what about when you're channeling "in trance?" When your local conscious mind takes a backseat to whatever you're channeling.

 

Your awareness is not really "gapped," but it's not really just "your" own localized awareness anymore either. In fact, your local consciousness is sort of subdued in a "trance."

Edited February 7, 2008 by vortex

[witch]

Well, I am a witch, and as a witch frequently go into trances. I do not do regular taoist practices. I am surprised that taoist alchemy would disconnect a person from astrological influences; usually with alchemical practice it is the opposite.

 

I do not consider being easily hypnotized a bad thing. I am also able to easily hypnotize myself, which actually does have some beneficial health effects, when used properly. Then again, I'm not a martial artist so I don't have to worry about vulnerability during fights.

 

By the way, Aquarius is an air sign, and almost no one gains any benefit from sun sign astrology. Astrology is based on all the planets, not just one.

[SFJane]

I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but what about when you're channeling "in trance?" When your local conscious mind takes a backseat to whatever you're channeling.

 

Your awareness is not really "gapped," but it's not really just "your" own localized awareness anymore either. In fact, your local consciousness is sort of subdued in a "trance."

 

 

In my personal opinion, trancing is gapping and both channeling and trancing are antithetical to actualizing the 8 energy bodies and becoming completely alive and present at all time on all levels.

 

It really requires a topic of it's own, perhaps we could start a topic just to discuss this.

 

 

 

 

Well, I am a witch, and as a witch frequently go into trances. I do not do regular taoist practices. I am surprised that taoist alchemy would disconnect a person from astrological influences; usually with alchemical practice it is the opposite.

 

I do not consider being easily hypnotized a bad thing. I am also able to easily hypnotize myself, which actually does have some beneficial health effects, when used properly. Then again, I'm not a martial artist so I don't have to worry about vulnerability during fights.

 

By the way, Aquarius is an air sign, and almost no one gains any benefit from sun sign astrology. Astrology is based on all the planets, not just one.

 

 

You are right, it is an air sign, it's been years since I concerned myself with astrology, I beg forgiveness, you are right and I am wrong. Aquarius is the water bearer and I confused the two.

 

I am former witch. In fact at one time I was involved in pagan activism and a member of WARD Witches Against Religious Discrimination.

 

I spent some number of years intensely involved with witchcraft and had my own coven in my very early 20s.

 

I moved on. What I wanted out of witchcraft was power, knowledge, wisdom and a close connection to the earth, the elements and the entire universe. practicing The Craft greatly helped me become sensitive to the elements especially water and the tides, the weather and the moon.

 

In the end I had to make a decision as to what and how I wanted to practice. Most people I knew had neither the time or inclination to practice ritual magick in a systematic, disciplined fashion on a daily basis. Preferring instead to practice the occult mainly during Sabbats. For me, every day was witchcraft day, I dispensed with the ritual and burned my Book of Shadows and instead practiced core energy arts like spiraling chi from the ground or the sky into my body and energy system. I cut out the words, the spells, the ceremony, the polytheism and just focused on the energy of spirit to the exclusion of anything else. Eventually the energy work becomes so absorbing that you can only sit while your mind stream joins with both your inner and outer universe.

 

 

Let me make another thread about this topic so as not to keep this one off topic.

Edited February 7, 2008 by SFJane

[sheng zhen]

I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but what about when you're channeling "in trance?" When your local conscious mind takes a backseat to whatever you're channeling.

 

Your awareness is not really "gapped," but it's not really just "your" own localized awareness anymore either. In fact, your local consciousness is sort of subdued in a "trance."

I would say trance is a pretty dagerous thing unless you really really know what you connect to. Some people do know, but most dont. We have guys like Edgar Cayce, JK Knight(or something like that), that are able to keep it real. But all the reiki-new-age-people all around the world channeling every master they see a picture of are really only harming themselves and their listeners.

 

Ive seen many channelers and what they connect to is definetly not jesus(or sananda as he is popularly called in channeling communities), Melchizedek, Sanat Kumara, Metatron, etc. It is someone else that is avaiable in other realms. Could be anyone, but because the channel is in trance he wouldnt know. Too often will channeling sessions leave people spaced out, feeling all warm and full of love, but with no grounding in reality. And then whats the point of felling love if not for fulfilling your own egos needs?

 

Notice especially how so many channelings start with things like "greeting beings of light", "you are the chosen ones", etc. It adresses the ego. Peoples aura and energysystems are blasted after channeling sessions. They are not expanded into the "unlimited universe of love", it is destroyed and left open like a wound for anyone in any realm to poke on. They are not awakened and ascended masters of love, they are pushed into a corner leaving themselves open to be manipulated by anyone.

 

But the ability to let go is ofcourse important, but you dont need trance-states to practice that. The trance-state in itself has not much to offer us.

Edited February 7, 2008 by sheng zhen

[SFJane]

I would say trance is a pretty dagerous thing unless you really really know what you connect to. Some people do know, but most dont. We have guys like Edgar Cayce, JK Knight(or something like that), that are able to keep it real. But all the reiki-new-age-people all around the world channeling every master they see a picture of are really only harming themselves and their listeners.

 

Ive seen many channelers and what they connect to is definetly not jesus(or sananda as he is popularly called in channeling communities), Melchizedek, Sanat Kumara, Metatron, etc. It is someone else that is avaiable in other realms. Could be anyone, but because the channel is in trance he wouldnt know. Too often will channeling sessions leave people spaced out, feeling all warm and full of love, but with no grounding in reality. And then whats the point of felling love if not for fulfilling your own egos needs?

 

Notice especially how so many channelings start with things like "greeting beings of light", "you are the chosen ones", etc. It adresses the ego. Peoples aura and energysystems are blasted after channeling sessions. They are not expanded into the "unlimited universe of love", it is destroyed and left open like a wound for anyone in any realm to poke on. They are not awakened and ascended masters of love, they are pushed into a corner leaving themselves open to be manipulated by anyone.

 

But the ability to let go is ofcourse important, but you dont need trance-states to practice that. The trance-state in itself has not much to offer us.

 

repost this in the thread about it please. I like your post and your thoughts, lets talk about channeling, trance, possession, all that good stuff, in a thread dedicated to it. You have some good insights.