Harmen Posted October 15, 2018 https://www.academia.edu/2629001/Astrology_and_Cosmology_in_Early_China_Conforming_Earth_to_Heaven With interesting insights on hexagram 1 and other hexagrams as well. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted October 15, 2018 51 minutes ago, Harmen said: https://www.academia.edu/2629001/Astrology_and_Cosmology_in_Early_China_Conforming_Earth_to_Heaven With interesting insights on hexagram 1 and other hexagrams as well. Thanks for the link -added to my read list 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernobe Posted October 15, 2018 Thanks Harmen. On page 215, note 58, it says: Quote John S. Major (1978, 13), for his part, draws the link between the Five Planets and the Five Elemental-Phases: “it does seem reasonable to believe that something like the Five Phases existed as a cosmological principle in the pre-philosophical state of Chinese thought, expressed in myths about the characteristics of the gods of the five planets. So again we see that a key concept of Chinese science probably can be traced back to Chinese versions of widespread cosmological myths.” To this can be added that the names of the planets themselves are identical with that of the elemental phases. And if they were worshipped as gods, that itself could account for their correlations with the seasons and directions. Elsewhere (p. 212) there is evidence for these correlations from the Bronze Age (circa 5000 B.C.). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harmen Posted October 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, ernobe said: Thanks Harmen. On page 215, note 58, it says: To this can be added that the names of the planets themselves are identical with that of the elemental phases. And if they were worshipped as gods, that itself could account for their correlations with the seasons and directions. Elsewhere (p. 212) there is evidence for these correlations from the Bronze Age (circa 5000 B.C.). I have attached Major's article so that the quote can be read in its entire context. Myth, Cosmology, and the Origins of Chinese Science - Major.pdf 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted October 15, 2018 29 minutes ago, Harmen said: I have attached Major's article so that the quote can be read in its entire context. Myth, Cosmology, and the Origins of Chinese Science - Major.pdf He says that myths were inimical to Confucian rationalism - but how does this sit with Confucius' own veneration of the Zhou rituals? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harmen Posted October 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, Apech said: He says that myths were inimical to Confucian rationalism - but how does this sit with Confucius' own veneration of the Zhou rituals? What do the rituals have to do with 'myths'? The Zhou rituals were linked to veneration of the ancestors. I don't think Confucius saw anything mythical in that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Harmen said: What do the rituals have to do with 'myths'? The Zhou rituals were linked to veneration of the ancestors. I don't think Confucius saw anything mythical in that. My knowledge is a little limited - but I thought there were seasonal deities and the like (?) - spring, harvest and so on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harmen Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Apech said: My knowledge is a little limited - but I thought there were seasonal deities and the like (?) - spring, harvest and so on. Yes, but as far as I know these were not the targets of Confucius' rituals. Alas! My knowledge is also limited :-) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernobe Posted October 15, 2018 I did a little research and found that the Chinese word for "planet" can be broken down into two parts: "moving" and "star". The "moving" part is the same that is used in the "phase" part of the "five phases". The names of the five visible planets have each of the phases (water, wood, etc.) conjoined with "star". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Llodro Gyeltsin Posted December 15, 2019 On 10/15/2018 at 3:45 PM, Apech said: He says that myths were inimical to Confucian rationalism - but how does this sit with Confucius' own veneration of the Zhou rituals? Major's paper is a good if rather pedestrian start. But the trouble with this small paper is that yin-yang came in much later than the wu xing and rather than mention the Ho Tu and Lo Shu he uses the magic square, overlays the wu xing and gets the order wrong...Not mentioning the bagua, both pre and post heaven seems perverse too and would have prevented this error.. The gua have their spirit connections too.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Llodro Gyeltsin Posted December 15, 2019 (edited) I'd like to read this - but I've been subscribed to Academia before and got so pestered by spam I closed the account down... anybody got a copy to send me? Edited December 15, 2019 by Llodro Gyeltsin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted December 15, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Llodro Gyeltsin said: I'd like to read this - but I've been subscribed to Academia before and got so pestered by spam I closed the account down... anybody got a copy to send me? Try from this post - its a direct download pdf. Ooops you meant Pankenier didn't you. I have it if you PM me with an email address. Edited December 15, 2019 by Apech 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Llodro Gyeltsin Posted December 16, 2019 I DID mean Pankenier yes! I'd love a copy. Mail it to [email protected]. Thanks, I really appreciate this! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
