Not Mistranslating the Bible

[Aetherous]

http://aramaicnt.org/articles/problems-with-peshitta-primacy/

 

I stumbled upon this Aramaic scholar's blog, and he does a great analysis of why the original New Testament wasn't the Peshitta (Aramaic) version as many claim. Even the comments section beneath the article has some interesting tidbits.

This thread can be for the overarching purpose of understanding the Bible in its proper context.

[Spotless]

On 10/19/2018 at 12:35 PM, Aetherous said:

http://aramaicnt.org/articles/problems-with-peshitta-primacy/

 

I stumbled upon this Aramaic scholar's blog, and he does a great analysis of why the original New Testament wasn't the Peshitta (Aramaic) version as many claim. Even the comments section beneath the article has some interesting tidbits.

This thread can be for the overarching purpose of understanding the Bible in its proper context.

Many original references to “hell” were actually references to a city dump outside of Jerusalem.

[Cheshire Cat]

1 hour ago, Spotless said:

Many original references to “hell” were actually references to a city dump outside of Jerusalem.

 

It was the Jeenna where they use tu burn trash... and it was also a place useful for getting rid of corpses in the mafia style. 

 

Jesus message was " if you don't practice metanoia (changing your mentality and join us), you'll end up in Geenna" 

[Aetherous]

Interesting. I found this decent article about that, but agree with one thing that the author said toward the end, that gehenna was used as a metaphor for what I'd call an "undesirable afterlife". Here are two sections I quickly found which reveal that: Matthew 10:28, and Luke 16:19–31. I also think that perhaps sometimes "gehenna" was used, but other times another term was used for this "undesirable place after life"...I don't have a good Greek interlinear Bible just yet to see.

[oak]

23 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

undesirable place after life".

 

Don't think it implies an after life as in the concept of reincarnation. Consider that the Bible speaks of several deaths and several births in one lifetime.

Edited October 21, 2018 by oak
spelling

[Aetherous]

27 minutes ago, oak said:

Don't think it implies an after life as in the concept of reincarnation. Consider that the Bible speaks of several deaths and several births in one lifetime.

 

See the verses above.

Where is the several deaths and births in one lifetime talked about?

[oak]

18 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

See the verses above.

Where is the several deaths and births in one lifetime talked about?

 

The Bible as to be read as a whole, that is if you want to understand the message in the gospels in depth.

[oak]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3%3A1-21&version=ESV

[Aetherous]

Some in depth exploration on the topic of Melchizedek.

[mrpasserby]

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (John 3:4–8)

“I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily” (1 Corinthians 15:31, NASB).

This infers that existing he must be being reborn daily also.

Edited February 21, 2019 by mrpasserby
spelling

[rideforever]

Does this change anything?   The examples given in the article seem meaningless.

- Would Mary Magdalene really have said head shepherd to Jesus on seeing his resurrection, seems unlikely, but even if so it doesn't change anything

- Whether you die by a sword or by swords the meaning is not different even if some double entendres are not available

- As for Matthew's lineage, I always skip these meaningless lists of ancestors

 

There does not seem to me to be any cause for concern from this article.

 

Recently I saw an interesting analysis of the KJV with some interesting things it missed, but it wasn't much.

 

Christians talk and debate endlessly about the Bible, but the words of Jesus are simple and plain and he who has ears to hear has no need of any confusion.   I notice in Bible study groups there is a competition of who gets to hand out the stack of Bibles to everyone so that they can sit there and with their finger on the page follow the words like good students.   Well, in other spiritual groups they take from you every book pen and phone, so that you have no obstruction to hearing the words, and no way to pretend you are doing something.

 

The trouble stars early in school, where young people are robotised physically emotionally and mentally, so that as adults they do the things expected but there is nobody home.   Then when they hear, they do not hear, when they see they do not see.

 

The Upanishads and Indian texts are vastly more complex than the Bible.

I believe only the Orthodox tradition of Christianity to still well hold the light.

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by rideforever

[Jadespear]

...I am somewhat interested in the bible...  I have heard that there are many older versions of the Bible, probably lost to history...

 

What is basically agreed upon by a lot of people, is that the bible was altered for political reasons throughout time to control populations, of course as evidenced by the entire roman civilization... 

 

As a historical document, I think the bible has some authenticity in leading one to ponder existence, and this is one aspect of being an aware individual.  However, it doesn't offer much else besides metaphorical stories and endlessly translated passages that people wrote down because they thought that it was important.

 

...the only real value the bible ever had to me was the simple assertion that God exists and that our actions matter and determine our life experience, and that considering others and how we treat them does have a tendency to affect our lives...

 

...But there is no real meditation type of aspect to it, no information to really "develop" oneself with...  which is what I was more or less interested in.  It's mostly time based stories of the cultures of antiquity, and metaphors for basic conduct, with prophecies that have no basis in our current way of life... the book of revelation etc. etc. 

[lifeforce]

1 hour ago, Jadespear said:

But there is no real meditation type of aspect to it, no information to really "develop" oneself with...  which is what I was more or less interested in.  It's mostly time based stories of the cultures of antiquity, and metaphors for basic conduct, with prophecies that have no basis in our current way of life... the book of revelation etc. etc. 

 

The Bible is an occult book of meditation, you only have to know where and how to look.

https://youtu.be/B3GjKTtSRrQ

https://youtu.be/x82MGr1PZXQ

https://youtu.be/xAXq0G_AcYQ

https://youtu.be/LuxntX7Emzk

https://youtu.be/TaULJs2Uljs

https://youtu.be/hVnbHlvxTHA

 

Should keep you going for a while.

My thread on The Sacred Secretion outlines the psychic visions, messages and insights I've received in just 3 months. 

[Jadespear]

hmmm.  interesting.  where is your thread?  

[Aetherous]

5 hours ago, Jadespear said:

no information to really "develop" oneself with

 

It seems to me like the Way that Jesus taught, and then the apostles expounded upon, which references the Old Testament, presents a lot of ways for us to develop ourselves. It's primarily a matter of character development, which we don't find in other religious traditions.

To some, it might seem like developing oneself on a level of character and virtue isn't so interesting. Where's the meditation? Where are the rituals? Why don't we get to the astral realm, and read the akashic records? Where are the prayer beads and the mantras? But developing oneself as a good person is the gateway to the occult mysteries. It is literally info on how to "develop oneself", and is "cultivation"...as opposed to sharing various meditation methods, which don't necessarily "develop oneself".

Besides that, unofficially there are a couple of meditations one could do from the Bible. One of them is "be still and know that I am God". Another is the Our Father prayer that Jesus taught...and he also gave the instruction to practice it while alone, or locked in one's closet, as opposed to doing it publicly.

Even simply reading the Bible, such as the Psalms, is a meditation method (called Lectio Divina). There was a forum member here, who once spoke of a method called "message qigong", where the vibration of various words has an effect on the subtle energies of the body as well as the mind. For instance, meditating on the word "peace" would have a different effect than meditating on the word "tranquility".

Well, he didn't say this, but reading scripture is the same thing as that, and the words themselves change who we are...besides the conveyance of the meaning of those words, and when things don't make sense (such as two different sections seeming to contradict), the insight that is drawn out naturally as a result of the intellectual conflict and lack of resolution.

[Sebastian]

Nice post. You can also turn any prayer into a meditation if you wish. Just pray and wait for a subtle response. It might be nothing, a breeze, an image or silence but it acknowledges that the Divine is there and doing something for you. You can ask to feel the gentle caress of the Holy Spirit for example, to heal someone else, or yourself. As my Master always says, the Divine understands the language of intent perfectly well. It doesn't care what language you are praying in or what rituals you are following. It knows your cry before you even voice the prayer.

 

Energetically what's happening is you are developing a relationship to Light, through praying to the Holy Spirit, which is the Light of Jesus. When the Holy Spirit comes to you he's not adding anything new in you, he's just awakening your own Holy Spirit, your own Light, based on your intent/request to come closer to the Light. "I am the way, I am the truth, I am the Light". Message healing which you wrote about, or information Qigong, even prayer, works through Light. It is intent cast in Light. It is also Jesus' promise that your prayer will always be able to reach the Father. Light is one level deeper than Qi.

 

When we do a Light healing with my Master we use Jesus' words, "My yoke is easy and my burden is Light". This can be interpreted in different ways but it's true that Jesus doesn't require much of us. Just an open heart, a sincere intent, and then Light does all the heavy lifting. All Jesus has to worry about is Light, fanning our Light, changing it according to our prayer, etc... Practically we imagine a Divine Light in front of us and call on the Holy Spirit, then pray, and wait. Even if you felt nothing, the energy will have shifted before and after your meditation, and something is always listening to you. You might not know it or feel, but everything might be different about the rest of your day.

 

[lifeforce]

11 hours ago, Jadespear said:

hmmm.  interesting.  where is your thread?  

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/48319-the-sacred-secretion-alchemy-and-astrology-in-the-bible/

[escott]

On 10/21/2018 at 11:51 AM, Aetherous said:

.I don't have a good Greek interlinear Bible just yet to see.

 

Try this.

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/

 

[escott]

I'll just give my 2 cents, because I've done a lot of Bible study and I don't do it anymore. I still attend a Methodist Church with my family, but if the preacher knew what I truly believe he'd probably never let me play guitar in the worship band again.

 

Basically, there's no reason to get pedantic about every word in the Bible. What we have is a collection of stories that were orally passed and written down after the fact with tidbits from other mythologies mixed in to make it sound like an even better story.

 

The Bible that we have today is a translation of a translation of a translation that should not be interpreted literally.

 

In relation to the article, this is why Pentacost is so significant, because people heard the disciples speaking the gospel in their own language, even a minor dialect like Syriac.

 

Anyway, my take is to stick to the teachings of Jesus - mainly concepts like being one with the Father, being in Union with his followers, and obtaining eternal life. Christians focus too much on Heaven and Hell and forget about the here and now. Jesus was trying to tell people the same thing that other Enlightened teachers did - Recognize your eternal nature in the here and now and experience bliss today!

[Jadespear]

... back to not mis-translating... it's not possible to even do that, because the original messages were mis-translated and re-interpreted from the hellenist jews to the ptomely greeks... the greeks wrote the bible with a large influence from their culture, and from the egyptians...( egypt, and egyptians are greek words...).  

 

...anyway, to reflect a common thought - it's not even important to try to.  Much more important to understand things for oneself.  I believe in noble character conduct, but damnet sometimes I get really pissed.  Society and it's ills are basically the greatest obstacle I have dealt with in refining my character, it's a shame, but it's true.  We don't really live in a society, we live much more in a master-slave , master-warrior, death-life dichotomy.  ...Which is probably why monks, and convents and all religious orders and movements don't care about the world or what happens in it...  it's all too stupid and full of ego's, nonsense, ignobility, greed, and pettiness. 

 

...and this master-slave dichotomy brought largely upon the world by western religions, sadly... praying to the gods and all that bullshit.  

 

 

[Aetherous]

51 minutes ago, Jadespear said:

... back to not mis-translating... it's not possible to even do that, because the original messages were mis-translated and re-interpreted from the hellenist jews to the ptomely greeks... the greeks wrote the bible with a large influence from their culture, and from the egyptians...( egypt, and egyptians are greek words...).  

 

This brings up a good point - looking at who most likely authored which books.

I think in some cases for the New Testament, the original authors wrote in Greek (they knew the language)...it wasn't taken from another language (such as Galilean Aramiac) and recorded again into Greek by other people besides the authors. Or maybe sometimes it was...but not for every book of the New Testament.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, or refer to any books specifically if info differs between them. This aspect isn't something I've researched at all...but it's a good point.

[Jadespear]

...here is basically what the influences of the bible are, it's a mix: 

 

-judaism belief

-egpytian culture and deification of the sun ( amun ) 

-greek myths and beliefs

-apocalyptic cults 

-astrologic metaphor of the zodiac in the new testament ( the apocalyptic, crucifixon, etc. of the sun ) -- basically the entire new testament is a metaphor to the zodiac and the paths that the sun takes, which is why there are 12 disciples ( 12 signs of the zodiac ) and God's son, or sun... is the one who everyone follows.  Due to new knowledge gained by people of course through time and because it was smart to alter the beliefs of people for political reasons...

-stories by people

-recommendations by people

spoken word of mouth of all these cultural traditions prior to being subscribed to written language, ( Jesus did not write anything down, etc. )  

 

...it's just like any group of teachings outside the realm of science.  All religions are an amalgamation of information expressed through the lens of what people could understand and believed to be important.  Just like buddhism is basically hinduism without some information, hinduism is basically a celebration of man and existence as taught by seers and ascetics from tribal times, taoism was originally a philosophy and science which was then formed into a religion... Christianity, judaism, and islam are the same in that they are pieces of information.  The big difference between the western and eastern religions is perception and myth.  Eastern religions tend to be focused on discovering the true essence of ourselves and reality to bring about a certain peace of mind to ourselves and to the world we live in, where as western religions are focused on worship of overlords and seek to control people through fear to bring about an ordered society that does not contend with itself...so that people can live together and happily that way.  Western religions tend to be mythical and constantly assert a "deity".  Eastern religions perceive life as it is, and suggest each person does the same, without to much emphasis on a "deity"... albeit is existent in them somewhat. 

 

 

 

[escott]

Something you might find interesting for interpreting/translating the Bible is the Ugaritic Texts that were discovered in the 1920's. Here is a short article that gives some example of their importance.

 

https://www.logos.com/ugaritic

 

[escott]

Yet another article that alludes to everything in the Bible as being an amalgamation of different cultures and religions.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium.MAGAZINE-jewish-god-yahweh-originated-in-canaanite-vulcan-says-new-theory-1.5992072

 

What is the purpose of studying these texts? Are we looking for some truth that we think was lost? Do we think that by going back in time we are closer to creation, closer to the source when mankind and God were of the same mind (i.e. Adam and Eve)? I wonder what the religion of neanderthals or cro-magnons was?

[Jadespear]

12 hours ago, escott said:

Yet another article that alludes to everything in the Bible as being an amalgamation of different cultures and religions.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium.MAGAZINE-jewish-god-yahweh-originated-in-canaanite-vulcan-says-new-theory-1.5992072

 

What is the purpose of studying these texts? Are we looking for some truth that we think was lost? Do we think that by going back in time we are closer to creation, closer to the source when mankind and God were of the same mind (i.e. Adam and Eve)? I wonder what the religion of neanderthals or cro-magnons was?

 

 

I agree in asking the same question.  I believe different people are more fond of different types of information...hence the piecemeal history of religious and mystical thought throughout time.  It's purely an intellectual and historical hobby of mine...I like to be aware up to a point that I feel comfortable with. Studying religions and spiritual traditions is like learning different languages....some express some things in a way that suits me more so than others at different times.  

 

Ultimately, none of them really contain a full explanation... the universe is extremely vast and I have experienced things that are quite strange.  

 

I think quantum theory and string theory are in the right direction when it comes to formulating a universal theory of existence.  

 

But the real question, I believe we all instinctively feel the need to understand, is always lingering there, why? Why existence? Why us? Why are we here ? Everyone kinda goes through the religions at some point to see if any of those answers can be found there... or so it seems...