The heights of satisfaction

[Yosan]

Hey fellow bums,

 

Just wanted to share a subject that had been lingering in my subconcious for many years. I’m sure you have as well.

 

Let’s say that hypothetically, you reach the fullest potential of your human existence.  We are talking realistically, meaning that rather than becoming an ubermensch, you are just incredibly balanced and accepting, and are self-integrated about as good as you possibly can.   You are the ultimate example of God’s grace.

 

What I am curious about, however, is whether there is anything beneficial about the “destructive” instinct that pulls you the other way.  Surely, part of us eventually gets fed up with perfection, regardless of the definition.   At some point, we feel like we want to lovingly throw it all way, to start over.  Regardless of how good it is, how virtuous, what we most strongly crave and cannot have an experience of is a “new self”.  

 

The reason I ask is because looking back on my life in retrospect, looking at all the unbelievable moments of bliss, awe and beauty, I do not think that they stand out as being the “reason” for life.  I look at them as being objectively the exact same as the most dark and painful experiences I had, and I am finding myself much less motivated to seek them out.   When I am in these positive and blissful states (which is not that often, mind you) I sometimes find myself going “oh, right, there is nothing special about this. This is just the opposite of my bad times. Okay.”

 

Perhaps this is simply a maturation process, but I am no longer as fascinated and enamored with “peak experiences” as I was before.   I find this idea hard to share, because most people are hell-bent on cramming in as many of these things as they can before they die.  I feel like they are the same as anything else.   Am I being nihilistic, or missing something here?

 

I guess this is part of the larger over-arching theme of what gives life meaning.  But then the ultimate question is, what is the meaning of trying to find meaning, is it not just another samsaric activity that is a source of clinging, attachement and dissatisfaction?  

 

For instance, I know that one of my deepest desires is to become a master at something. Part of me feels that I will get a deep sense of satisfaction that I have never felt before, from being an absolute genius at some subject, something which I have never really accomplished.  I know that it would take an unbelievable amount of work to get there, and it would be very hard to accomplish without some commitment.  However, I also know that I would be doing it mostly to satisfy that deep craving of personal fullfillment, a re-inforcing of my personal ego, rather than for the pleasure of the journey itself, so to speak.  

[Marblehead]

3 hours ago, Yosan said:

Am I being nihilistic, or missing something here?

No, I think you are not being nihilistic nor missing anything.

 

It's just the same question:  What is the purpose of (my) life?

 

We are born, we live, then we die.

 

It's all about what we do while we are here.  Did we find peace and contentment?  There's really no where to go, nothing to do, after that.

 

 

 

 

[Everything]

Yeah, so allow yourself to be satisfied. However that may express itself, let it.

 

often people are satisfied by something, and then they suddenly go into craving, and then they think that that craving or yearning is what satisfaction is. It is NOT. and NEVER WILL BE. Period. Pee on my period. Big yellow pee all over it. Cause this period is gonna stay here forever.

 

I'm just joking... Except for the period... The period is real... Who ever crosses that line will be annihilated!

Edited October 21, 2018 by Everything

[Everything]

On 21-10-2018 at 10:59 AM, Yosan said:

Edited by everything, added bolded text:

 

Hey fellow bums,

 

Just wanted to share a subject that had been lingering in my subconcious for many years. I’m sure you have as well.

 

Let’s say that hypothetically, you reach the fullest potential of your human existence.  We are talking realistically, meaning that rather than becoming an ubermensch, you are just incredibly balanced and accepting, and are self-integrated about as good as you possibly can.   You are the ultimate example of God’s grace.

You already are those things, so now what? 

What I am curious about, however, is whether there is anything beneficial about the “destructive” instinct that pulls you the other way.  Surely, part of us eventually gets fed up with perfection, regardless of the definition.   At some point, we feel like we want to lovingly throw it all way, to start over.  Regardless of how good it is, how virtuous, what we most strongly crave and cannot have an experience of is a “new self”.  

You decide to create the idea of a destructive instinct, and then you decide to give it all of your power and energy and focus and then you make it real for yourself. And then you look at your own creation and realize the reality of it for yourself. And you may begin to feel early om that that is not what you want for yourself because it is not relevant to who you really are. Or you may decide to wait untill the destroying begins and then come realize with greater clarity than ever that you simply don't want to be destructive and it is easy to just choose not to do that.

The reason I ask is because looking back on my life in retrospect, looking at all the unbelievable moments of bliss, awe and beauty, I do not think that they stand out as being the “reason” for life.  I look at them as being objectively the exact same as the most dark and painful experiences I had, and I am finding myself much less motivated to seek them out.   When I am in these positive and blissful states (which is not that often, mind you) I sometimes find myself going “oh, right, there is nothing special about this. This is just the opposite of my bad times. Okay.”

You forgot the reason and purpose of your life, and that is what creates the suffering. And there is nothing relevant for you in that experience of suffering except the suffering itself. Why? Because the suffering exists for one reason only. And it is a wonderful reason. To remind you that there is something that exists that is more relevant for you to experience, that is your purpose, that is the experience where you belong, what you are made to experience. For if there truely was nothing better than that suffering, then you woulden't suffer at all! Then it would just be another experience. And then you would say life is meaningless. Infact, you would not even have an experience to begin with in order to even communicate the meaninglessness. So allow your purpose to exist and allow yourself to remember it. And when you remember it then it stands out as the reason for life. The suffering helps you remember it, the satisfaction is just an indication that you are remembering it ever more and more, as you are ment to come to know it forever more. 

Perhaps this is simply a maturation process, but I am no longer as fascinated and enamored with “peak experiences” as I was before.   I find this idea hard to share, because most people are hell-bent on cramming in as many of these things as they can before they die.  I feel like they are the same as anything else.   Am I being nihilistic, or missing something here?

Yes it is a maturation process, because you don't try to do anything. As you come to realize that everything you have ever tried in your life has ended up in the realm of non-existance, and then you are left with all the things you have actually been doing and are doing right now. And that can be described as an awakening and heightened sense of consciousness. And you simply flow with it through the practice of contentment and following the trail of satisfaction that is your purpose and reason for being that will always fill you with excitement and awareness and ability to be fully conscious in expanding joys and pleasures. But you realize in you matureness and wisdom that you actually were born with, is that you never had to do anything in order to receive that experience that comes natural to you. That is why you let go of trying and why practicing contentment in every experience of your life will give you more ability to remember your natural state of being a physical being that exists in harmony with their greater intent and purpose of their greater non physical core soul essence and Source of all creation. 

I guess this is part of the larger over-arching theme of what gives life meaning.  But then the ultimate question is, what is the meaning of trying to find meaning, is it not just another samsaric activity that is a source of clinging, attachement and dissatisfaction?  

You give life meaning, so begin appreciating your very uniquely specific perspective. Because the Source of your existance always appreciates you to the fullest. And your own soul aswell. So as you begin to appreciate the uniqueness that is you, you will always be more aligned with the path that is your purpose in life. 

For instance, I know that one of my deepest desires is to become a master at something. Part of me feels that I will get a deep sense of satisfaction that I have never felt before, from being an absolute genius at some subject, something which I have never really accomplished.  I know that it would take an unbelievable amount of work to get there, and it would be very hard to accomplish without some commitment.  However, I also know that I would be doing it mostly to satisfy that deep craving of personal fullfillment, a re-inforcing of my personal ego, rather than for the pleasure of the journey itself, so to speak.  

I wanna say something important here. You already know that craving and yearning has got nothing to do with who it is you really are. It has nothing to do with your purpose for being here. Just like the suffering guides you to understand how irrelevant all the experiences of suffering always will be for you. And how wasteful it is to denie yourself your reason for existing that is the joy you deserve in life. Otherwise you would not suffer if the experience was truely relevant for you. Then you would enjoy the experience as it is then again part of your reason for being here.

I want you to remember that there exists something that is called pure desire. This pure desire does not contain the trying to make it happen. Trying to make it more real. Trying to create that which does not exist. This pure desire is simply the thing that you want PURELY and nothing else. Literally purely just only and only the desire itself, the very thing you want, appart from everything else. A placing your attention on the thing you want, in its most pure form will always result in you feeling the joy that is your natural true self nature. That joy, as you focus purely on the pure desire alone, and hold your attention upon it, as it exists in a void of nothingness, where you can begin experiencing your desire alone and literally experience nothing else to exist but the desire itself, the joy you feel as you do that, the love and appreciation you feel, is an emotional indication that you are in that moment allowing your true core essence of being, your soul, your non physical Source Energy to fully flow through you with zero resistance whatsoever. And that is YOUR OWN ENERGY! That is who you really are. And to fully allow it to flow like that, that is to be in harmony with your greater intent for being here, your unique and always very personal journey and purose in and of your life. And it requires zero effort whstsoever, except letting go of everything, but focusing purely on your desire and nothing else. I am not talking about trying or trying to block awareness of other things. But to begin observe your desire as consciousness experiencing the pure desire where nothing else exists. That is how your soul exists and that is how you can function in harmony with your soul. So if there is some awareness of something that doesn't feel good, again, let it go. And return your awareness purely on the desire and nothing else. And if something pops uo that's not what you want, let it go and acknowledge it has nothing to do with your pure desire and is not related to YOUR pure desire, so allow yourself to focus purely on the desire itself and NOTHING else. And then you will begin to feel who it is you are as a natural joyoush being. As you allow your energy to flow purely through you and fully. And then you will remember your purpose in life. As you are in that moment of love living it. 

I added my response in the bolded text above here in my quote of your post. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Everything

[doc benway]

On 10/21/2018 at 4:59 AM, Yosan said:

Hey fellow bums,

 

Just wanted to share a subject that had been lingering in my subconcious for many years. I’m sure you have as well.

 

Let’s say that hypothetically, you reach the fullest potential of your human existence.  We are talking realistically, meaning that rather than becoming an ubermensch, you are just incredibly balanced and accepting, and are self-integrated about as good as you possibly can.   You are the ultimate example of God’s grace.

 

What I am curious about, however, is whether there is anything beneficial about the “destructive” instinct that pulls you the other way.  Surely, part of us eventually gets fed up with perfection, regardless of the definition.   At some point, we feel like we want to lovingly throw it all way, to start over.  Regardless of how good it is, how virtuous, what we most strongly crave and cannot have an experience of is a “new self”.  

 

The reason I ask is because looking back on my life in retrospect, looking at all the unbelievable moments of bliss, awe and beauty, I do not think that they stand out as being the “reason” for life.  I look at them as being objectively the exact same as the most dark and painful experiences I had, and I am finding myself much less motivated to seek them out.   When I am in these positive and blissful states (which is not that often, mind you) I sometimes find myself going “oh, right, there is nothing special about this. This is just the opposite of my bad times. Okay.”

 

Perhaps this is simply a maturation process, but I am no longer as fascinated and enamored with “peak experiences” as I was before.   I find this idea hard to share, because most people are hell-bent on cramming in as many of these things as they can before they die.  I feel like they are the same as anything else.   Am I being nihilistic, or missing something here?

I think this is a part of the maturation process. We have enough peak and trough experiences and realize they are fleeting.

Chasing them doesn't get us very far. I don't think that is nihilism but wisdom (not in the Buddhist sense).

 

On 10/21/2018 at 4:59 AM, Yosan said:

I guess this is part of the larger over-arching theme of what gives life meaning.  But then the ultimate question is, what is the meaning of trying to find meaning, is it not just another samsaric activity that is a source of clinging, attachement and dissatisfaction?  

 

The meaning of trying to find meaning is related to where we are looking. 

We are always looking outwards.

Meaning is found inwards.

We are so much more than our senses and thoughts recognize and at some level we feel something is lacking.

So we look and look and don't find it because we're looking in the wrong direction.

 

On 10/21/2018 at 4:59 AM, Yosan said:

For instance, I know that one of my deepest desires is to become a master at something. Part of me feels that I will get a deep sense of satisfaction that I have never felt before, from being an absolute genius at some subject, something which I have never really accomplished.  I know that it would take an unbelievable amount of work to get there, and it would be very hard to accomplish without some commitment.  However, I also know that I would be doing it mostly to satisfy that deep craving of personal fullfillment, a re-inforcing of my personal ego, rather than for the pleasure of the journey itself, so to speak.  

Masters generally don't feel a deep sense of satisfaction, some for sure, but not enough to end the searching.

It is precisely the feeling that they aren't quite good enough that pushes them to commit to mastery.

If they do succeed in reaching their goal or limit, they will move on to the next project.

You will never "get there" because, once again, you are looking in the wrong direction.

It is absolutely fine and wonderful to try and master something but that will not fulfill the craving.

The craving will be filled when you look deep enough inward and get full appreciation for what you are and what ultimate potential is there. When the realization is there that you already have everything you need just as you are, then the craving will ease and eventually cease.

 

Just my $.02

[s1va]

On 10/21/2018 at 3:59 AM, Yosan said:

Hey fellow bums,

 

Just wanted to share a subject that had been lingering in my subconcious for many years. I’m sure you have as well.

 

Let’s say that hypothetically, you reach the fullest potential of your human existence.  We are talking realistically, meaning that rather than becoming an ubermensch, you are just incredibly balanced and accepting, and are self-integrated about as good as you possibly can.   You are the ultimate example of God’s grace.

 

What I am curious about, however, is whether there is anything beneficial about the “destructive” instinct that pulls you the other way.  Surely, part of us eventually gets fed up with perfection, regardless of the definition.   At some point, we feel like we want to lovingly throw it all way, to start over.  Regardless of how good it is, how virtuous, what we most strongly crave and cannot have an experience of is a “new self”.  

 

The reason I ask is because looking back on my life in retrospect, looking at all the unbelievable moments of bliss, awe and beauty, I do not think that they stand out as being the “reason” for life.  I look at them as being objectively the exact same as the most dark and painful experiences I had, and I am finding myself much less motivated to seek them out.   When I am in these positive and blissful states (which is not that often, mind you) I sometimes find myself going “oh, right, there is nothing special about this. This is just the opposite of my bad times. Okay.”

 

Perhaps this is simply a maturation process, but I am no longer as fascinated and enamored with “peak experiences” as I was before.   I find this idea hard to share, because most people are hell-bent on cramming in as many of these things as they can before they die.  I feel like they are the same as anything else.   Am I being nihilistic, or missing something here?

 

I guess this is part of the larger over-arching theme of what gives life meaning.  But then the ultimate question is, what is the meaning of trying to find meaning, is it not just another samsaric activity that is a source of clinging, attachement and dissatisfaction?  

 

For instance, I know that one of my deepest desires is to become a master at something. Part of me feels that I will get a deep sense of satisfaction that I have never felt before, from being an absolute genius at some subject, something which I have never really accomplished.  I know that it would take an unbelievable amount of work to get there, and it would be very hard to accomplish without some commitment.  However, I also know that I would be doing it mostly to satisfy that deep craving of personal fullfillment, a re-inforcing of my personal ego, rather than for the pleasure of the journey itself, so to speak.  

 

The natural state of being, or residing is neither a pleasurable (feeling high) experience nor a state of misery or suffering. It is called bliss, but it is not ecstatic bliss states like samadhi that comes and goes, though we can get a glimpse of it from samadhi states.  There can be no observer and observed, such as the pleasurable moments of bliss you describe with a seperate experiencer.

 

By being present in the now and observing, we come to know these are just experiences.  No need to reject the blissful experiences.  All experiences are valid.  Let's go through them while being present totally in the now.  This process of being present can be very helpful for the truth to unfold.

[rex]

I’d say that if the destructive instinct is still there, then the fullest potential of human existence hasn’t been reached. Though having said this, there is the myth of a perfected being that fell from grace ...

Edited October 22, 2018 by rex
Spelin misteak

[Otis]

On 10/21/2018 at 1:59 AM, Yosan said:

What I am curious about, however, is whether there is anything beneficial about the “destructive” instinct that pulls you the other way.  Surely, part of us eventually gets fed up with perfection, regardless of the definition.   At some point, we feel like we want to lovingly throw it all way, to start over.  Regardless of how good it is, how virtuous, what we most strongly crave and cannot have an experience of is a “new self”.  

 

I think there may be something very beneficial about the instinct toward tearing it all up.  It all depends upon where you are in your life.

 

If you were very dissatisfied right now, then tearing it all up might be the best possible thing.

 

Personally, as someone who has a most important goal in my life (my documentary) the desire for which I feel to my core, I can say that finding what feels like 'my purpose' is both sweet and frustrating.  It's great to have a sense of direction, but painful to always be in the pursuit of that goal, rather than having simpler tastes, and just enjoying what's sweet about life right now.    

 

That said, I would not give up that goal, just to get rid of the frustration.  The goal is in my bones now, and won't let me rest.

[Yosan]

On 10/22/2018 at 11:19 AM, Everything said:

I added my response in the bolded text above here in my quote of your post. 

 

 

What the heck, man. This was one of most amazing things I have ever read. Totally did not expect to find it so relevant. I think you healed a part of me on a very deep level.  Seriously, though, how many people do you know that you have been able to cognize these concepts at all?  We are so often given the same cookie-cutter answers to everything and I want to thank you for your refreshing perspective.

[Everything]

5 hours ago, Yosan said:

 

 

What the heck, man. This was one of most amazing things I have ever read. Totally did not expect to find it so relevant. I think you healed a part of me on a very deep level.  Seriously, though, how many people do you know that you have been able to cognize these concepts at all?  We are so often given the same cookie-cutter answers to everything and I want to thank you for your refreshing perspective.

The state of being where you are already healed, exists eternally. I pointed at it, where you can see it in it's now form of expression. 

 

But to take this state of being, to the more specific expression that it is, requires satisfaction with the state of being itself. 

 

It may seem like life is against you. But everything around you exists for the very reason of inspiring from you a more specific realization of more of all that you are. 

 

If you are taught early on in life, to forget who you are. You get distracted by the physical nature of the life around you. Because you don't recognize its reason for being there in your life, so it stays there, forever, untill you remember again why it is there, and continue your merry way in this eternal journey we call life, and more life. 

 

So next time you catch your self saying, "why does this always happen to me?!" 

Know, that the complete opposite happened. But, allow yourself to be the misunderstanding. 

 

It requires your ability to feel, to know what you would rather want to happen. And when you can feel your way into the perception of your very same life the way your soul sees it, then you can completely know that the complete opposite is always happening. That all is well. Everything is perfect. But if you cannot imagine it, you cannot feel it. And if you cannot feel it, you also cannot recognize it's current now state of being expressed in a way that you can now see it, forever more and more. Always now. Always here. Ever expanding in all the joy that you seek. A real reality, that you cannot imagine, but you can imagine something symbolic of it for the purpose of feeling what that reality would then feel like, in order to feel it, and when you feel it, allow yourself to REALIZE IT for yourself, for it always exists right here and now for you to ever realize it ever more into more of all that it is. As you identify the emotion of the imagined scenario of your preference, in the moment. Then focus on the feeling in general broad way, in a way you can recognize as it exist already in your now, right now. This first recognition then, if in harmony with the identified emotion, expands naturally, effortlessly, by virtue of deliberate focus on its reality, ever expanding recognition that expands naturally into the specificness highly fine tuned high frequency highly detailed perception of all the joy you seek in full knowing and unwavering knowledge of all that you have ever desired, as it exist right here and now. You sort of click into gear with the synchronisity of your natural state of being that is you living your highest purpose in life. And this expansion into the full realization of the full manifestation of all the fully delicious rapturously extatic details of it, happens naturally and EFFORTLESSLY, by simply allowing yourself and your perception to flow more with the feeling of your pure desires. The joy. As your mind is designed to do so and thus then fully feels energized in its realigned natural state of being and ongoingly inspired and capable if recognizing the greater truth of all that you truely are and forever more, in every now moment again and again.

 

 

So just like a small child, riding a bycicle, and then falling, and crying. And now angry. And think it's never gonna ride the bike EVER AGAIN! And yet, I See this happening, to the same child, every single day, maybe 3 times a day. And every single day, it is riding the bicycle again. A crashing noise occurs, and the same voice cries, every single day, Uaaaaaa...  Happily. Joyously. Riding the bike again. Because the falling is completely irrelevant!

 

Because as I'm speaking, that child is still crying while riding the bicycle, but has redefined her crying as a teasingly mocking the sound around the air of her mouth. It's just a sound she makes with her mouth, for the sake of doing it, and she enjoys her own voice, redefining her own universe constantly.

 

So imagine we all have this soul, then how can you say you don't have it right? You can even see the child redifining the entire universe from all gone bad, to all is well. By the wisdom of her own soul, that she has eternal acces to. And realizes, she can't live without it. So she gives up, and teases her bike, that she can still ride it, even tho she thought her bike was the  reason why the entire universe went bad. and wrong... And yet, not only did she forgive her bicycle, she took it and sat on it, mockingly, saying the one thing that our soul knows best, "I don't care what you think, I love you anyway." 

 

Our soul holds all the best of all that we have become, forevermore, and also all the best of all that we will forever become. And constantly beams this vibrational completed creation to us, 24/7.

 

It's really that simple. Infinite intelligence, and all the expansive knowledge, fractalised from the infinity of all dimensions, pin pointed, to you as a guidance, and what do you get? A feeling. That's it. A nudge in a certain direction. You go another direction, oh you feel the pull back, you still go there anyway and you ignore the guidance of feeling and emotion, and now you suffer, and thus you FEEL still, forever, you feel that this experience is not yours, you do not belong there, so now you have to recover, dust yourself off, and on you go, and hopefully, having learned from that experience, that you are then more likely to stay mindful of your heart feeling and more often in harmony and tune with the guidance you receive here. And when you fully receive that guidance, you translate it through your most sophisticated vibrational translator sense of all senses; of emotion. Love, joy. If you feel that, you're pointed in the right direction. You are PURELY on the path of least resistance, fully flowing with the eternal stream of well-being, that is all of existance coming to know itself in all the ways that it can, eternally, expanding, infinitely, always through the path of least resistance.

And if you feel anything other than satisfaction, you're being guided by something else. That is not your Source of being. Not the Source of all being. And what it is, is not important. It is never a good enough reason, it is never a good enough definition, it is never a necessary truth, nor relevant. And never will be. Otherwise, the child would fall, and never die, and be eternally in a state of being where she has fallen. And that's it. Now everything around her becomes a fallen child, and existance is complete. Done. The end. Bye.

It doesn't work that way, because you're eternal and infinite, everything is eternal and infinite. And you can never become less than all that you've become. Your expansion is a given. You allowing yourself to flow more with it, is called the art of allowance. Walking the path of lesser resistance, that is the path of least resistance.

You do nothing, and leave nothing undone.

Wei wu wei.

Do nothing, achieve everything.

In other words, it's the releasing of resistance. This then allows you to let go of unnecessary action, and just flow with INSPIRED action. The kind of action that is SO INSPIRED, when you feel the desire to act upon it, there's nothing that can hold you back, that's how good and easy and effortless and exciting and fun it feels to act upon that. That is your highest excitement. But you don't call the lesser excitement any less than that. The path of lesser resistance is always the path of least resistance. So if you say, "I'd rather do this, and you do it" that is the same as fulfilling your life's purpose. Because if you keep doing that, and you trust your ability to feel what is more of your excitement to do and what is less, then that's it. Now you're slowly walking the path that your soul eternally lays out before you. And synchronisity abounds in your life, is how you realise you're straight on the path of your highest purpose in life, and more so, the joy you feel, and passion and excitement and eagerness is an indication of all of that aswell.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Everything