'The fish tail' in tai chi ?

[Nungali]

Is any one familiar with a move or technique called fish/'s tail , in tai chi or any similar practice  ?

[LAOLONG]

 

[Marblehead]

Maybe a modification of "catch the bird's tail"?

 

[dwai]

10 hours ago, Nungali said:

Is any one familiar with a move or technique called fish/'s tail , in tai chi or any similar practice  ?

We use an energetic “tail” in Temple style tai chi for stability and as a counterbalance when applying power (during certain types of power transfer).

[Nintendao]

I dunno but the name reminds me of something i see occasionally. It's a jump while using a one-handed weapon. Looks particularly good with an opened fan. You hold the thing out behind/below the direction of movement and kind of flap the wrist one or more times, imitating the tail of a fish or dolphin jumping above the water's surface. I have no idea if it's the real move. Maybe could work as a combined parry and dodge, or just to flow energy for further/higher jump.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Nintendao
deleted superfluous "quotation" marks.

[LAOLONG]

22 hours ago, Nungali said:

Is any one familiar with a move or technique called fish/'s tail , in tai chi or any similar practice  ?

It is in the  taijiquan jian form.
BLACK DRAGON WHIP HIS TAIL.
Start position
You turn 360 to the right

To start position
( Jian circle backward to
The right )
 

Edited October 28, 2018 by NOONE

[LAOLONG]

YIN&YANG Jian

CIRCLE TO THE RIGHT

CIRCLE TO THE LEFT

 

[Nungali]

On 28/10/2018 at 3:09 AM, Nintendao said:

I dunno but the name reminds me of something i see occasionally. It's a jump while using a one-handed weapon. Looks particularly good with an opened fan. You hold the thing out behind/below the direction of movement and kind of flap the wrist one or more times, imitating the tail of a fish or dolphin jumping above the water's surface. I have no idea if it's the real move. Maybe could work as a combined parry and dodge, or just to flow energy for further/higher jump.

 

This sounds the closest.   I have been working through 'hakatsuru' kata ('Okinawan Crane' ) and in this version there is a move where the hands make a 'chi ball' and fling out to the sides;

 

right hand curves up and over centre line to the left,  left hand  curves low and over centre line and to the right , as if rotating a ball. Then both hands are flung out, palms open to the side.    I haven't been able to work out the 'bunkai' ( application). 

 

But I just returned from a trip down south, I hunted  down Ted  Lange    (   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohan_Sōken    

-  see  'STUDENTS'    and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nishihira_Kosei - last paragraph  )   my current instructors teacher.  And had a short visit and a rap with him ( we didnt have time to 'train' , maybe next time ) , aside from all the wonderful photos and stories, we went trough a few simple things ..... (and I wanted to run my 'take' ,  research, applications, innovations  etc . by him  to see if I was off or not  )  including this move.

 

he got me to throw a punch,  as his right hand curved over to go around the top of the ball, it intercepted the line of my punch, diverted it and he passed my fist over to his  left hand which had curved under (in application the  movement seems shorter and the 'ball' smaller ), then ( the flick open the arms and hands bit ) his right hand flicked in and slapped me with the back of his hand ( softly) over my heart .

 

Then he stepped away from me and did it again but this time with the back of his hand stopping before contact over the target, he flicked it really fast like  a whip and stopped it suddenly and the hand whipped and 'fluttered', with a vibration.   "Fish's tail'  he said .  "Causes atrial fibrillation. '   ....     Then ;   " Remember, after  Hohan Soken, the changed karate to teach it to  school kids, thats why the applications got changed and hidden ."  

 

Well , you cant teach them that stuff stuff !    I tried doing it, not a chance, I dont know how you get your hand to vibrate that way, and I know now why that application has remained hidden .

 

But I haven't ever heard of it before   'fish's tail '  .  Grasp birds tail in tai chi, yes. Fishs tail , nope  (until now) .

 

Anyway, great to finally meet Ted,  VERY tall , a vet, with active service and  a   really nice guy ...  and dedicated MA practitioner that bought a lost and dying art to my country .... which I eventually discovered .      

Edited October 29, 2018 by Nungali

[LAOLONG]

 

[Marblehead]

I think that is called "catch a sucker".

 

[LAOLONG]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 and dedicated MA practitioner that bought a lost and dying art to my country .... which I eventually discovered .      

If we are talking on lost arts
In the Yiddish culture pre1939
There was the double slap
With open hand to the face
With right hand to the left
And  to the right with back of
The palm ,it is a fast movement
Of the wrist like a flip of a fish tail.
My father was expert in that
Ha ha ha

[Nintendao]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

he got me to throw a punch,  as his right hand curved over to go around the top of the ball, it intercepted the line of my punch, diverted it and he passed my fist over to his  left hand which had curved under (in application the  movement seems shorter and the 'ball' smaller ), then ( the flick open the arms and hands bit ) his right hand flicked in and slapped me with the back of his hand ( softly) over my heart .

 

Then he stepped away from me and did it again but this time with the back of his hand stopping before contact over the target, he flicked it really fast like  a whip and stopped it suddenly and the hand whipped and 'fluttered', with a vibration.   "Fish's tail'  he said .  "Causes atrial fibrillation. '

 

gawd damn, my jaw literally dropped in awe reading all of this

 

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, Nintendao said:

 

gawd damn, my jaw literally dropped in awe reading all of this

 

 

You should see some of the private film I have of Kosei Nishihira ! 

 

I cant even do the first bunkai of the firstmove of his version of   '54 steps'  *     he started off  in  seiza

 

 

Stands up very fast, from that position,  on one leg while at the same time the other does a front kick,  as he is rising. Then that is retracted as he moved to a full standing position and the other leg does a front kick and retracts as he stands - ie  two kicks, either leg, during standing up from seiza .....   

 

*  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gojūshiho

(since the regular versions of this form are different from ours, I doubt anyone else knows these bunkai )