[DDJ Meaning] Chapter 62

[dawei]

David Hinton 2002
62

Way is the mystery of these ten thousand things.
It's a good person's treasure
and an evil person's refuge.
Its beautiful words are bought and sold
and its noble deeds are gifts enriching people.
It never abandons even the evil among us.
When the Son of Heaven is enthroned and the three dukes installed, parades with jade discs and stately horses can't compare to sitting still in Way's company.
Isn't it said that
the ancients exalted this Way because
in it whatever we seek we find,
and whatever seeks us we escape?
No wonder it's exalted throughout all beneath heaven.

 

Dwight Goddard 1919
62

The Tao is the asylum of all things; the good man's treasure, the bad man's last resort. 
With beautiful words one may sell goods but in winning people one can accomplish more by kindness. 
Why should a man be thrown away for his evil? To conserve him was the Emperor appointed and the three ministers.
Better than being in the presence of the Emperor and riding with four horses, is sitting and explaining this Tao.
The reason the Ancients esteemed Tao was because if sought it was obtained, and because by it he that hath sin could be saved. 
Is it not so? Therefore the world honors Tao.

 

Bradford Hatcher 2005
62

The way is a sanctum to the myriad beings
A good person’s treasure
A less than good person’s place of refuge
Elegant speeches may be useful at market
Noble deeds may be useful for promoting someone
(But if) another has less ability
Why waste what they are?
So (when) enthroning the heir to heaven
(Or) installing the three high nobles
Though there be big jade platters in tribute
Drawn by teams of four horses
This is not as good as sitting still (and) offering this path
What purpose had the ancient ones in honoring this way?
Was it not claimed:
“To seek is to find
To claim error is to be forgiven”?
So (this) becomes precious to (all) under heaven

 

Wing-Tsit Chan 1963
62
Tao is the storehouse of all things. It is the good man's treasure and the bad man's refuge. 
Fine words can buy honour, And fine deeds can gain respect from others. Even if a man is bad, when has (Tao) rejected him? 
Therefore on the occasion of crowning an emperor or installing the three ministers, Rather than present four large pieces of jade preceded by teams of four horses, It is better to kneel and offer this Tao. 
Why did the ancients highly value this Tao? Did they not say, "Those who seek shall have it and those who sin shall be freed"? For this reason it is valued by the world. 

 

 

Gu Zhengku 1993

62

The Tao is the innermost recess of all things;
It is what the good man cherishes
As well as what the bad man wants to keep.
With the Tao, beautiful words can buy respect;
Beautiful deeds can be highly regarded.
How can the bad man desert the Tao?
Hence when the emperor ascends the throne and appoints three ducal ministers,
It would be better to present to the emperor the Tao than jade disks followed by a team of four horses.
Why did ancients value the Tao so much?
Was it not said that by making use of the Tao
One could get what one desired
Or avoid punishment when committing an offense?
That is why it is valued so mush in the world.

 

Ch'u Ta-Kao 1904
62

Tao is the source of all things, the treasure of good men, and the sustainer of bad men.
Therefore at the enthronement of an emperor and the appointment of the three ministers, better still than those who present jewels followed by horses, is the one who sitting presents (propounds) this Tao. 
Why did the ancients prize this Tao? 
Was it not because it could be attained by seeking and thus the sinners could be freed? 
For this reason, it has become the most valuable thing in the world.
Good words will procure one honour; good deeds will get one credit.

 

Flowing Hands 1987
62
The Dao is the treasured way of the Universe and the Ten Thousand Things.
It treats all things equally and sees the good and bad in all men.
The Sage is like the Dao;
if a man is bad, he does not abandon him,
nor does he give more preference to those who are good.
He sees the world as one whole and so treats all things alike.
When the king is crowned and the officers of state installed, do not send great gifts of gold
and jade, but remain still and offer them your greatest treasure, the Dao.
Because the Dao is unbiased, yielding and flowing, people like the Dao at first.
For they each can find what they seek and be forgiven for all their sins.
Therefore it is the greatest treasure that exists in the Universe.
 

[Marblehead]

I like Flowing Hands' presentation.

 

The processes of Dao.

 

[OldDog]

I also like Flowing Hands interpretation ...

 

It treats all things equally and sees the good and bad in all men.

 

and ...

 

He sees the world as one whole and so treats all things alike.

 

I appreciate the way the sense of underlying unity is preserved in the interpretation.

 

I do take exception to the use of the term sin though. Seems to convey too much of a western bias. Rather offences, shortcomings or even failures.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by OldDog
Grammar

[whitesilk]

Thomas Cleary 1990

 

The way is the pivot of all things:

the treasure of good people,

the safeguard of those who are not good.

Fine words can be sold,

honored acts can oppress people;

why should people who are not good abandon them?

Therefore to establish an emperor

and set up high officials,

one may have a great jewel

and drive a team of horses,

but that is not as good

as advancing calmly on this Way.

Why did the ancients value this Way?

By it one can attain without long seeking

and escape from the faults one has;

therefore it is valued by the world.

 

Seems Cleary has a subtle difference in this verse around the middle of it. I've noticed the slight change in his translation:

 

The ones above allude to 'offering' the Way to the king or emperor.

 

Cleary keeps alludes to personal advancement of the Way.

 

[nestentrie]

Morrissey.

 

 

 

Cave.
 

 

Dempsey.

 

 

[nestentrie]

Flowing hands translations are chaff.

[flowing hands]

1 hour ago, nestentrie said:

Flowing hands translations are chaff.

 

Are you saying that my transmission is rubbish?

[nestentrie]

13 hours ago, flowing hands said:

 

Are you saying that my transmission is rubbish?

Yes. There is a difference between making appeals, and actually asserting something. Your transmission suffers no analysis - you figure you can mark the meaning without letting people reflect.

Edited October 31, 2018 by nestentrie

[flowing hands]

12 hours ago, nestentrie said:

Yes. There is a difference between making appeals, and actually asserting something. Your transmission suffers no analysis - you figure you can mark the meaning without letting people reflect.

If it is the person making a point ie Le Erh then it is HIS opinion. He is leaving you to find a greater knowledge for yourself and not just giving you all the answers. So you are basically saying that his writings are rubbish, for it is he who taught me!

It is the writings of Le Erh and it is not the ramblings of some fool.

So far I have seen no substantial insight from you on any of the translations being offered to give me any hint that you have any insight whatsoever.

 

Are you knowledgeable enough to stand your ground with this opinion?

[whitesilk]

On 10/31/2018 at 10:02 AM, flowing hands said:

for it is he who taught me

 

Hi Flowing Hands! I am ignorant of the Chinese language. As you are an English Chinese translator, I have a question for you.

 

Would it have been possible that certain texts contained an inner message, such as one deciphered by only reading a sequence of the characters, or have I just watched the AMC show 'Turn' one too many times?

[flowing hands]

17 hours ago, whitesilk said:

 

Hi Flowing Hands! I am ignorant of the Chinese language. As you are an English Chinese translator, I have a question for you.

 

Would it have been possible that certain texts contained an inner message, such as one deciphered by only reading a sequence of the characters, or have I just watched the AMC show 'Turn' one too many times?

 

The DDJ as it was later called is a collection or should I say a selection of the writings of li Erh. There are passages in the text that allude to self cultivation to become an Immortal etc. A lot of it though is quite straight forward and has no hidden meanings, only to those who do not have an open perspective, does the text represent some difficulties. The verses were arranged by someone other than Li Erh, so really one could mix them up and certainly enjoy them singularly.

[Jeff]

19 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

The DDJ as it was later called is a collection or should I say a selection of the writings of li Erh. There are passages in the text that allude to self cultivation to become an Immortal etc. A lot of it though is quite straight forward and has no hidden meanings, only to those who do not have an open perspective, does the text represent some difficulties. The verses were arranged by someone other than Li Erh, so really one could mix them up and certainly enjoy them singularly.

 

Agree that there is not much order to it.  Have often thought it would be helpful to group them as some of the verses kind of go together and make a good progression.

[dawei]

Eno for thought:

 

http://www.indiana.edu/~p374/Daodejing.pdf

 

 

[Sketch]

• Verse Sixty Two

 

The Way, the trail that we’re marking here, covers everything.

 

It’s the treasure of good people

And it protects the bad ones.

 

So, by following the trail, you can even find success in the world, and wind up in a position of influence.

 

By all means, continue to be an exemplar of the Way, continue to follow the Trail Marker in your dealings.

 

Even if they decide to treat you like Heaven’s Baby,

Or make you one of the three lord high

Muckety Mucks, 

Stick you in a horse drawn carriage

With a BIG jade disk  - a symbol of office, expensive, time consuming to make, and this one is too big to 

Put your arms around,

Being displayed in front of your carriage,

That would not bring you as much honor

 

As the example you would set

By following the Way.

So the coach and horses, the Jade disk, the whole

Dog and pony show that goes along with authority

Just covers up the crimes

Of the evil men who followed the path just as far as political power, money and influence.

 

Which makes it too costly by far.