The Dao Trumps

[wandelaar]

4 minutes ago, s1va said:

That is a forum sub section where some really nasty posts end up.  You can visit the section and check out some threads.

 

Yes - but where can I find it?

[s1va]

15 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

Are you gaining value in your own spiritual progress by focusing on this?

 

 

Thanks for the concern about my personal spiritual progress.  Perhaps something I said is pushing some buttons and making some uncomfortable and turn this thread also into some personal, you vs. me, innuendos and attacks, etc. 

 

More important to me is the collective spiritual progress for the entire community here.

[ilumairen]

3 minutes ago, s1va said:

 

Thanks for the concern about my personal spiritual progress.  Perhaps something I said is pushing some buttons and making some uncomfortable and turn this thread also into some personal, you vs. me, innuendos and attacks, etc. 

 

 

Actually I was thinking exactly what you wrote in response to my question.

 

(minus the "I said" bit, of course.)

Edited October 30, 2018 by ilumairen

[Aetherous]

3 minutes ago, s1va said:

More important to me is the collective spiritual progress for the entire community here.

 

Thanks for the concern about our collective spiritual progress.

[s1va]

2 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

Actually I was thinking exactly what you wrote in response to my question.

 

You are welcome to think what you like and interpret things as you like.

 

I have stated my thoughts clearly on the link I posted from my PPD, for some that cares to read.

[s1va]

3 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

Thanks for the concern about our collective spiritual progress.

 

You are welcome.  As part of the staff here, it is also my duty to steer conversations in the right direction at times.

[s1va]

36 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

Yes - but where can I find it?

 

Here is the link. It is named as Hun Dun or Primordial Chaos now.

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/forum/40-hùn-dùn-混沌-primordial-chaos/

 

[ilumairen]

6 minutes ago, s1va said:

 

You are welcome to think what you like and interpret things as you like.

 

I have stated my thoughts clearly on the link I posted from my PPD, for some that cares to read.

 

There were many things here that were difficult for me when I first arrived, and slowly I explored them. 

 

What I didn't do was expect others to bow to my own discomfort. 

 

What I once did was bow to the political opinion of men. I held the idea that they somehow knew better. Now, due to the Trump thread, I explore and study and learn, about the law, about history, about politics. Ideas are presented and explored, and this has been invaluable to me. 

 

[ilumairen]

How does this confuse you S1va?

[s1va]

Just now, ilumairen said:

 

There were many things here that were difficult for me when I first arrived, and slowly I explored them. 

 

What I didn't do was expect others to bow to my own discomfort. 

 

What I once did was bow to the political opinion of men. I held the idea that they somehow knew better. Now, due to the Trump thread, I explore and study and learn, about the law, about history, about politics. Ideas are presented and explored, and this has been invaluable to me. 

 

 

No one is expecting anyone to bow!  Your post doesn't make much sense to me.  Some of us were just debating the plus and minus if engaging in heated political debates, which often results in name calling, insults, personal attacks etc.  The amount of time and activity that is generally observed by many as spent on this.

 

If you don't like this discussion, then please stay away.  Turning this into someone is trying to make me bow to their discomfort, etc., makes absolutely no sense.

 

You can happily engage in discussing Trump or anything else you want, as long as it does not break the terms and conditions of the site, like personal insults etc. that happens often in the Trump thread.

[Aetherous]

1 minute ago, s1va said:

You are welcome.  As part of the staff here, it is also my duty to steer conversations in the right direction at times.

 

Thankfully, to actually steer conversation in this case, you would have to collaborate with other moderators and Admin who (I think) don't share your personal opinions that other forum members' "inner demons are coming out" or that they have an "obsession".

Focus on your own cultivation. You can't control the spiritual cultivation of the forum or anyone else...and furthermore, your personal opinions about the spiritual cultivation of others is not at a level of clarity.

As someone who has been at this forum since 2005, I can say that how moderation has been this past year or more has been great. Let's keep it that way, and keep staff members moderating  the forum rules, rather than attempting to control the spirituality of others.

 

[Aetherous]

Just now, s1va said:

which often results in name calling, insults, personal attacks

 

These things can and should be moderated.

[Pilgrim]

Thanks for the input s1Va. Thinking about this a little more the Trump thread has become a few things for me.

 

#1. Educational,

 

I used to think that allot of the Left wing people could not be serious in their positions.

 

I used to think allot of the Right Wing people could not be serious in their positions.

 

Now I know for certain that both really do believe in their position and have a better idea as to why.

 

#2. Conformational: I have learned that what I suspected all along is that once most people (Not All) cork off and blow off a little steam there can be some genuine conversations and learning from different points of view. Therefore there is hope for the nation as a whole and it is going to be alright.

 

#3.Informational: Prior to learning of the Trump thread I used to just catch the news here and there and shake my head allot wondering what the heck was wrong with people.

 

#4.Entertaining: On oh so many levels and I really enjoy most all of the people in the thread,  especially the ones I do not agree with as it challenges me to step outside of my own assuredness and look at things from different points of view. 

[s1va]

1 minute ago, Aetherous said:

 

Thankfully, to actually steer conversation in this case, you would have to collaborate with other moderators and Admin who (I think) don't share your personal opinions that other forum members' "inner demons are coming out" or that they have an "obsession".

Focus on your own cultivation. You can't control the spiritual cultivation of the forum or anyone else...and furthermore, your personal opinions about the spiritual cultivation of others is not at a level of clarity.

As someone who has been at this forum since 2005, I can say that how moderation has been this past year or more has been great. Let's keep it that way, and keep staff members moderating  the forum rules, rather than attempting to control the spirituality of others.

 

 

Relax and take a deep breath.  No one is trying to control your or anyone else's spiritual cultivation.

[Aetherous]

Just now, s1va said:

Relax and take a deep breath.  No one is trying to control your or anyone else's spiritual cultivation.

 

Focus on yourself.

[s1va]

5 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

How does this confuse you S1va?

 

I have explained it in another thread right after you asked this question.  

 

If something I said troubled you, then I apologize for that.  My observations are in general and it's not personal or about anyone.

[ilumairen]

1 minute ago, s1va said:

 

No one is expecting anyone to bow!

 Your post doesn't make much sense to me.  Some of us were just debating the plus and minus if engaging in heated political debates, which often results in name calling, insults, personal attacks etc.  The amount of time and activity that is generally observed by many as spent on this.

 

I think worrying over how other's spend their time is a rather futile waste of the same time. 

 

1 minute ago, s1va said:

If you don't like this discussion, then please stay away.  Turning this into someone is trying to make me bow to their discomfort, etc., makes absolutely no sense.

 

I do like this discussion - which is why I choose to engage in it. 

 

1 minute ago, s1va said:

 

You can happily engage in discussing Trump or anything else you want, as long as it does not break the terms and conditions of the site, like personal insults etc. that happens often in the Trump thread.

 

Oh my stars! 

 

Because I've exhibited such a great tendency to traipse over the terms and conditions of this site...

 

:shaking my head:

 

[s1va]

5 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

Thanks for the input s1Va. Thinking about this a little more the Trump thread has become a few things for me.

 

#1. Educational,

 

I used to think that allot of the Left wing people could not be serious in their positions.

 

I used to think allot of the Right Wing people could not be serious in their positions.

 

Now I know for certain that both really do believe in their position and have a better idea as to why.

 

#2. Conformational: I have learned that what I suspected all along is that once most people (Not All) cork off and blow off a little steam there can be some genuine conversations and learning from different points of view. Therefore there is hope for the nation as a whole and it is going to be alright.

 

#3.Informational: Prior to learning of the Trump thread I used to just catch the news here and there and shake my head allot wondering what the heck was wrong with people.

 

#4.Entertaining: On oh so many levels and I really enjoy most all of the people in the thread,  especially the ones I do not agree with as it challenges me to step outside of my own assuredness and look at things from different points of view. 

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Pilgrim.  Yes, it can be helpful in some ways.

 

My thoughts and some others were just about sheer amount of activity in this thread, and the problems that invariably arise from these heated political discussions, resulting in some type of insults and then later as reports to staff!  There is a time and place for everything.  The primary purpose of this forum, I would think is to discuss spiritual topics.

 

If we set aside a room in our house for prayer, meditation or spiritual activities, it would make sense to primarily use that place for that purpose.  So that eventually that place itself is charged with spiritual energy.  This forum is a virtual space.  If we let a TV run in that prayer or meditation room, 10 hours a day with shows from CNN or Fox, it won't be conducive to some.  Personally, it's all fine with me.

 

We all just need to pause.  Let's forget about Trump, left, right etc.  Many many people come here to these forums everyday seeking help in Spirituality and many other things.  Looking up to some of us, who have been through some of those troubles in the past.  What type of precedence or image do we want to present ourselves to these people that look forward to us.  Don't we have a responsibility to be an example to others, to help these people?  

 

Some may say, screw it and I don't care.  This is not for them.  This is an appeal to those who care, to spend their time wisely here for the sake of others, and to help others.  There are so many fascinating spiritual topics that many of us are capable of discussing, by imparting our knowledge and the lessons we learned in this journey to others.  This are just my suggestions.  Anyone can take it or leave it, just my 2 cents.  

[s1va]

12 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

Because I've exhibited such a great tendency to traipse over the terms and conditions of this site...

 

:shaking my head:

 

 

Not you.  Please try not to interpret everything I generally state as about or in relation to you.  It truly is not. 

[Kar3n]

17 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

The creator of the Talk Trump thread has the power to hide it. Wouldn't that be funny, 648 pages and 16,188 posts suddenly hidden from view? I think some would have a apoplectic fit!

No, he does not. The Trump thread was split from another topic and was created by admin.

 

The system defaults to the member linked to the first post as the creator of the topic.

[wandelaar]

Do posts in the pit (that is in Hun Dun or Primordial Chaos) show up in "Activity"? If not, than I think it would be a great idea to remove discussions like in the Trump thread to the pit. People have a right to discuss what they like and they can also do that in the pit, but - in my opinion at least - they don't have a right to turn a forum devoted to Taoism or spirituality in general into a forum with an almost exclusive focus on contemporary politics. The structure of the forum should reflect that the main focus is Taoism (or spirituality in general) and that discussions on contemporary politics are still possible but should remain a side-issue.

[s1va]

Just now, wandelaar said:

Do posts in the pit (that is in Hun Dun or Primordial Chaos) show up in "Activity"? If not, than I think it would be a great idea to remove discussions like in the Trump thread to the pit. People have a right to discuss what they like and they can also do that in the pit, but - in my opinion at least - they don't have a right to turn a forum devoted to Taoism or spirituality in general into a forum with an almost exclusive focus on contemporary politics. The structure of the forum should reflect that the main focus is Taoism (or spirituality in general) and that discussions on contemporary politics are still possible but should remain a side-issue.

 

I agree with you.  We need to start a proper discussion on this question in the Forum subsection, so that all members get a chance to share their views in this topic.

[s1va]

36 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

Thankfully, to actually steer conversation in this case, you would have to collaborate with other moderators and Admin who (I think) don't share your personal opinions that other forum members'

 

Just for your information: The moderators don't need to collaborate with anyone to steer a conversation in the right direction, issue a warning, or even suspend a member who breaks any terms of the site up to 3 days.  Though I generally try to discuss with others  (because of my own choice) before taking any such action, other moderators taken such action when  it is truly warranted all the time.

 

If you want, I can quote the portions from the terms and conditions that explains this in detail.

[dawei]

8 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Do posts in the pit (that is in Hun Dun or Primordial Chaos) show up in "Activity"? If not, than I think it would be a great idea to remove discussions like in the Trump thread to the pit. People have a right to discuss what they like and they can also do that in the pit, but - in my opinion at least - they don't have a right to turn a forum devoted to Taoism or spirituality in general into a forum with an almost exclusive focus on contemporary politics. The structure of the forum should reflect that the main focus is Taoism (or spirituality in general) and that discussions on contemporary politics are still possible but should remain a side-issue.

 

Some background.   

 

The Pit (the name was that way so long, folks still like to use it) does not allow starting threads, although at one time it did.  Then a long ago team decided that it should be more of a dumping ground of the worst threads but we try not to lock them unless they are really over the top... those that are way, way over the top go to sub-forum that only staff has access to. 

 

So in theory, the Pit/Chaos is not expected to really be a high discussion area but where threads naturally die [of discussion].

 

Off-Grid is not public but only viewed by signed in members.

 

I don't see anything turning the forum away from the main focus of Taoism and Spirituality.

 

 

[Kar3n]

Off grid was created to keep more controversial topics, like politics, out of the pit. There is no need for the Trump thread to be pitted. It is not visible to the public nor is it archived by bots.

 

Trying to control the flow or content of discussion based on what we perceive to be "spiritual" or not, damaging to cultivation or outside of our personal beliefsfalls well outside of the parameters of moderating the bums.

On 9/23/2013 at 7:31 PM, Trunk said:

TheDàoBums has a strong egalitarian ethic in that it's whole purpose is to provide a civil very open context for member conversations.  However, its governance structure is mostly top down; it's not a democracy.
- admins - own / run the board
- moderators - enforce rules
- members - converse