Microcosmic orbit meditation and attachment

[interpaul]

I have been practicing the microcosmic orbit meditation for a few months and find it generates a lot of positive energy within my body.  I hear again and again the value of meditation.  Given the pleasurable sensations this particular meditation generates I wonder if this practice could ultimately be just another form of attachment, one that is best to release.  Curious the groups take on this.

[Miffymog]

If your greatest aims, goals, desires and activities lay outside of your practice, then you're not getting overly attached to it. But if it starts to become the most important thing in your life, then you need to be slightly careful.

 

 

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, Miffymog said:

But if it starts to become the most important thing in your life, then you

are getting somewhere.

[Cheshire Cat]

The microcosmic orbit meditation generates transcendental positive energy or Qi within the body.  There's a tremendous value in the practice of contemplative absorption which leads to greater and greater spiritual gifts.  Although this meditation generates pleasurable sensations it's not a form of attachment because the Dao is the way of spontaneous non-action in activity: if attachments arise because of microcosmic orbit meditation, it will pass by itself at the proper time because of this same microcosmic orbit meditation.

[Miffymog]

Mild cheekiness - a sign of qi deviancy, or a sign that you

 

14 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

are getting somewhere.

 

...  

[rex]

Sounds really positive - especially as it appears to be spontaneous and not contrived.

Edited October 30, 2018 by rex

[interpaul]

On 10/29/2018 at 1:17 PM, Cheshire Cat said:

The microcosmic orbit meditation generates transcendental positive energy or Qi within the body.  There's a tremendous value in the practice of contemplative absorption which leads to greater and greater spiritual gifts.  Although this meditation generates pleasurable sensations it's not a form of attachment because the Dao is the way of spontaneous non-action in activity: if attachments arise because of microcosmic orbit meditation, it will pass by itself at the proper time because of this same microcosmic orbit meditation.

Thanks for these encouraging words.  Have you been practicing this for a long time?  I found out about this stuff from reading Mantak Chia's books on Taoist sexual practices.  He kept warning about the risks of doing the other practices without a foundation of the MCO.  I finally decided to take that seriously and found the MCO even more powerful for focus and generating energy than the sexual practices.  It seems almost too good to be true to breath and circulate energy like this without a downside. 

[interpaul]

6 hours ago, rex said:

Sounds really positive - especially as it appears to be spontaneous and not contrived.

Not sure what you mean by spontaneous and not contrived.  This type of meditation is intentional but the energy generated is spontaneous and wasn't expected. If that is what you are referring to I appreciate that insight.  

[interpaul]

On 10/29/2018 at 11:41 AM, Miffymog said:

If your greatest aims, goals, desires and activities lay outside of your practice, then you're not getting overly attached to it. But if it starts to become the most important thing in your life, then you need to be slightly careful.

 

 

This gives me energy to do all the other stuff in my life and is part of a transmutation practice I am exploring. My only concern is I've found most pleasurable things in life tend to have an addictive risk if done in excess.  Many of the Taoist enthusiasts online seem to promote these practices and encourage going deep into them, sort of along the lines of the comments above from Cheshire cat.  This seems so safe as it is just breathing and visualization (e.g. no abuse of any senses).  I've been reading the Tao te Ching lately and it seems to point more to a middle path, not one of excess, But I find the Tao very mysterious and open to interpretation.  I still live in the world of duality and strive to avoid missteps on this spiritual path.  

[Everything]

No this high frequency vibe and energy, is not an attachment. The exact opposite. If you meditate and you allow yourself to flow with this high pure fast energy of your own soul, And consider meditating allowing for the raising your frequency to that high fast pure mode of operating on your NATURAL STATE OF BEING high fast pure. Not making it happen. Allowing it to happen. Meditating is to allow your good feeling self how you are designed to function. Not an attachment! Meditating is the complete opposite. You're letting go of thought. 

 

So you are unto something huge here. Because you are beginning to understand. You can feel how you are letting your energy flow or not. Flow or block. Feel good or bad. That simple! And infinitely important to know and feel. And how infinitely easy to just meditate, let go of thought, and witness our natural pure self joyoush life force return and rejuvinate everything in our life! Blessed be meditation. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Everything

[Everything]

3 hours ago, interpaul said:

Not sure what you mean by spontaneous and not contrived.  This type of meditation is intentional but the energy generated is spontaneous and wasn't expected. If that is what you are referring to I appreciate that insight.  

I am so glad I am not alone. And your words are very inspiring. It feels so reliefing to allow your own energy to flow finally for the first time. And how unexpected good that always feels. For meditation will always seem too easy to be true. You literally have to do nothing in order to allow your energy to flow. And benefit your entire life. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Everything

[Fa Xin]

Many Masters do warn about chasing after feelings and experiences.  I think the "high" you get from meditation and energy work can definitely become an attachment for some people.  It may be a road we have to travel and find our own way out of, though. Like a Rite of Passage with energy work... Who doesn't want to try and feel blissed out all the time?

 

On the flipside to this, the feeling your experiencing is because the energy is hitting on attachments and loosening them up.  So the previous posters are correct to say that it will generally work itself out and clear when it's time has come.

 

If it comes, good.

If it goes, good.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Fa Xin

[Fa Xin]

2 hours ago, Everything said:

No this high frequency vibe and energy, is not an attachment. The exact opposite. If you meditate and you allow yourself to flow with this high pure fast energy of your own soul, And consider meditating allowing for the raising your frequency to that high fast pure mode of operating on your NATURAL STATE OF BEING high fast pure. Not making it happen. Allowing it to happen. Meditating is to allow your good feeling self how you are designed to function. Not an attachment! Meditating is the complete opposite. You're letting go of thought. 

 

While this is true, it's possible to try and "chase" this feeling, which would negate the "natural" part and the "being" part. 

 

I've been there, "needing" to do a practice before I start my day.  Needing to do more because I'm "getting used to it".  Catching 5 minutes between classes to get that blissful hit of energy.

 

It became an attachment for me, a crutch... which kept me suppressed for a time.  Eventually it fell away and when it did it was quite liberating.

[rex]

14 hours ago, interpaul said:

Not sure what you mean by spontaneous and not contrived.  This type of meditation is intentional but the energy generated is spontaneous and wasn't expected. If that is what you are referring to I appreciate that insight.  

Yes, that's it.

[Everything]

13 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

 

While this is true, it's possible to try and "chase" this feeling, which would negate the "natural" part and the "being" part. 

 

I've been there, "needing" to do a practice before I start my day.  Needing to do more because I'm "getting used to it".  Catching 5 minutes between classes to get that blissful hit of energy.

 

It became an attachment for me, a crutch... which kept me suppressed for a time.  Eventually it fell away and when it did it was quite liberating.

Hmmm, that is very interesting. 

Because you must've been feeling limitted to continue to limit yourself. Correct? What was going on there. 

[Fa Xin]

49 minutes ago, Everything said:

Hmmm, that is very interesting. 

Because you must've been feeling limitted to continue to limit yourself. Correct? What was going on there. 

Yes on feeling limited. But also chasing feeling good and the highs that come with powerful flows. 

 

Im sure many people go thru a phase where they think they should be feeling blissed out on energy all the time. And then to get frustrated when it goes away. 

 

Maybe I’m the only one 😊

[Everything]

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

Yes on feeling limited. But also chasing feeling good and the highs that come with powerful flows. 

 

Im sure many people go thru a phase where they think they should be feeling blissed out on energy all the time. And then to get frustrated when it goes away. 

 

Maybe I’m the only one 😊

No you're not the only one. I understand the experience completely, and it is a misunderstanding, because the frustration and the going away of it are the very same thing. It is about letting the frustration go away. But you cannot let the frustration go away once it has already begun, again, that is also why it feels as Frustration! So the frustration is the PERFECT infinite wisdom of your own heart guiding you, letting you know where your energy vibration now is, and what amount of resistance there is and what kind of resistance there is going on. And the best answer is always, so... "How do I let go of this frustration if it has already begun, then I can no longer let go of it, because it is already there." Too late. Right? So you start early on! You let go of the resistance, BEFORE it begins. Letting go of that gravitational momentum of the resistant energy vibration. That is what meditation does. Consider a herd of sheep and goats. Often given as a christian analogy of how natural well-being flows and what resistance does to the individual who suddenly goes against the stream, only to limit itself. So you flow joyoushly to life and suddenly your attention is on frustration, and now you're turn against this stream and the analogy is then given you become more like a goat. More resistant and now you can let go and flow back with the stream of natural well-being, but this cannot be DONE it is not an action, it is an act of allowing, an act of non-action, wei wu wei. You allow yourself to flow with the natural stream of well-being again. and become more like the sheep again. You let go of everything, and then there is the pure high state of alignment with the vibrational gravitational momentum of the eternal and infinite stream of well-being of the entire universe. Including this planet and all the life and the life of the solar system itself. It is not that there is something bad out there that you need to worry about. It is the resistance itself that causes one to enter the experience that then is said to be a negative experience. So the things themselves are not bad, the experience itself is due to a resistance to the natural flow of your very own energy. And you can feel that even before it is allowed to happen. That is what emotions help you guide. You meditate to become more sensitive to your high flying pure state of being, and thus also more sensitive to what causes the resistance EARLY ON, thoughtwise or action or perspective, all the same. When you go with the flow of that eternal stream of well-being, the sensitivity to that which causes the resistance, the blocking of the current of your own life force to flow, increases tremendously. This overwhelming sensitivy actually makes it more easy to let go of those things effortlessly, because you are now capable of letting all of that go BEFORE the momentum of them expands into a gravitational resistant energy vibration that causes discord that now needs to play itself out, which no longer can be let go of, because it is now part of your vibration, but your soul NEVER enters that resistant stream, and that is why you feel the emotion of frustration, because you are stuck in a counter-current that does not flow with your souls own current, and you are always connected to that soul so nothing can ever go wrong. the energy vibration that goes counter to the natural well being now has to be let go of gradually or just gets worse untill you again meditate or sleep and then let go of all that negative momentum energy.

 

So if you meditate early in the morning, you can stay there in your natural flow of energy that feels good naturally and easily and effortlessly, and then you have an opportunity to critisize or judge and you feel instantly, oh this feels worse and you let go, you distract and let go of it before the momentum takes place. And often things in your environment will natural occur to cause you to distract from focusing into that counter current resistant energy vibration that is not of your natural nature or benefit. Because that is what karma is, it is the cancelling of negative vibration. So someone says something they don't mean "You suck" and they may mean it differently then you think or they may just accidentally just floop it out of their mouth, it's really nothing to do with reality, and it is a misunderstanding, so something else happens to distract. Because the stream of well-being always flows, so if you remain in that resistant vibration, now the current of well-being flows against you, because you're going counter to it in your focusing on the thought of "you suck, I suck I am bad, this is bad, etc." And then you feel worse. So, like an electrical current going through a wire. If there is resistance, in that wire, like your mind field suddenly has the thought "I am bad" you can feel bad, because the energy in your mind is not allowed to flow. This misunderstanding leads to another and another. And the resistance grows. And you keep feeling worse. All the way to despair where the negative energy vibrational momentum is so powerful it is like a heavy fast moving train. You can no longer stop that train. It hurts. So you have to let it go. Because its not a real train, it is just a path of resistance. And you simply always are where you are. So you then accept where you are, in that resistant energy vibration, and you choose the path of least resistance, which is the path of LESSER resistance. Same thing. Despair "I am bad." And then you feel relief in the thought that "I have no right to call myself bad, that unto itself is bad. I shoulden't do that. I am also insulting the nature of everyone else aswell if I do that." So now your vibrational becomes less resistant. And that is how you let go of resistance. Of attachments. It can be gradual like that aswell.

 

But meditation is always easier, instantly letting go of everything untill there is nothing left but your pure natural high flying state of being in pure harmony with the natural stream of infinite existance of well-being of loving light as the substance of all things in this universe. Because if you do nothing that causes resistance, then there is no resistance, and the flow just happens. You don't need to do anything to earn that or deserve it and GET it. That is what meditation is. Letting go, not "Trying to feel good."  because that will never feel good. You don't have to do anything in order to feel good. It's how simple life is designed to be. And that is why meditation is so often suggested by so many wise teachers and masters. Because everyone can do it and it's so easy and universal in how to let go of the resistant energies so easily and effortlessly, to naturally re-align with your natural own pure energy of being that always feels good and better and happily live ever after flowing with the natural stream of well-being ever effortlessly. And you don't have to understand any of this. To just meditate and the experiences then naturally cause the wisdom of the only thing that teaches truely, not words, but experience. And then you can understand that experience and then you can understand the knowledge that points at those experiences and clarifies everything and how all of this universe works as energy and vibration. Flowing with the natural stream of well-being or not. More or less. Less resistant or more. And the natural path is always the path of lesser resistance and the path of least resistance, in alignment and harmony and pure natural high frequency that is who you really are as the totality of your being, which is primarily a non-physical being of consciousness energy vibration of which your physical body is an extension of. A small part of that soul of who you are, that non-physical energy vibrational consciousness, a small part of that is focused here into this physical body. And if you sleep, or meditate or die, you return back fully to that, and if you meditate or die, you do it consciously. If you sleep, your physical body is not consciously experiencing that flowing with the natural stream of your own soul. That is why sleep doesn't always extend its benefit out into the waking life. And death, well, not that much either obviously, cause you're not physically focused then anymore. But meditation, always, a perfect harmonious blend of physical and non-physical, in perfect harmony. As you are intended to be, before you came here into this physical body.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Everything

[interpaul]

22 hours ago, Everything said:

I am so glad I am not alone. And your words are very inspiring. It feels so reliefing to allow your own energy to flow finally for the first time. And how unexpected good that always feels. For meditation will always seem too easy to be true. You literally have to do nothing in order to allow your energy to flow. And benefit your entire life. 

Ok Everything, I am going to push back just a little.  Last night I did the microcosmic orbit for about a half hour while I was falling asleep.  I focused the energy to see where it might go and it took on a feeling very similar to orgasmic energy but it just circulated in my body.  Not complaining but it resulted in a couple hours of insomnia with surges of intense energy.    It does make me wonder about the neurochemistry of this activation of pleasure centers.  Other intense pleasurable experiences often lead to a surge in dopamine with resultant down regulation of the dopamine receptors in the brain with the long term effect of causing reduced pleasure in other areas of life.  This has been reported in overuse of drugs, alcohol and pornography.  Have you experienced this type of pleasure from meditation and have you found it is sustainable without causing long term emotional problems?  

[interpaul]

20 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

 

While this is true, it's possible to try and "chase" this feeling, which would negate the "natural" part and the "being" part. 

 

I've been there, "needing" to do a practice before I start my day.  Needing to do more because I'm "getting used to it".  Catching 5 minutes between classes to get that blissful hit of energy.

 

It became an attachment for me, a crutch... which kept me suppressed for a time.  Eventually it fell away and when it did it was quite liberating.

Fa Xin,  I can definitely see the trap of chasing this energy.  Last night I was wanting to see where this was going and as I stayed in that place it built up to almost orgasmic type of feelings.  It then resulted in a couple hours of insomnia.  Curious how long it was a crutch for you and how you let go and where it took you. 

[Fa Xin]

1 hour ago, interpaul said:

Fa Xin,  I can definitely see the trap of chasing this energy.  Last night I was wanting to see where this was going and as I stayed in that place it built up to almost orgasmic type of feelings.  It then resulted in a couple hours of insomnia.  Curious how long it was a crutch for you and how you let go and where it took you. 

Hi Interpaul,

 

As I reflect more, I think I was searching for healing, as much as I was searching for the feelings of energy.  Things began to change when I finally found someone who had the ability to show me how to use energy practices to actually heal and clear my "junk" so to speak.

 

We want to feel the energy to feel good, of course! but this also means that we do not feel good normally ... so there is something there that needs to release.  The problem is when it doesn't get released, and we chase after .... well ... anything ... in this case energy.... in an attempt to feel better. 

 

I would say keep going with your practices.  But know that the greatest energy flows are when your totally in the present moment and relaxed.  You can literally feel those orgasmic flows at any time, so long as your not grasping at anything or pushing anything away. To stay fully present is quite blissful, and this is the aim of my practice at this point. 

 

Best of both worlds... strong energy flows and no more needing to do anything other than what I'm doing now... I can feel them flowing under the surface all the time, or if I tune in they will get very strong.

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Fa Xin

[interpaul]

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

Hi Interpaul,

 

As I reflect more, I think I was searching for healing, as much as I was searching for the feelings of energy.  Things began to change when I finally found someone who had the ability to show me how to use energy practices to actually heal and clear my "junk" so to speak.

 

We want to feel the energy to feel good, of course! but this also means that we do not feel good normally ... so there is something there that needs to release.  The problem is when it doesn't get released, and we chase after .... well ... anything ... in this case energy.... in an attempt to feel better. 

 

I would say keep going with your practices.  But know that the greatest energy flows are when your totally in the present moment and relaxed.  You can literally feel those orgasmic flows at any time, so long as your not grasping at anything or pushing anything away. To stay fully present is quite blissful, and this is the aim of my practice at this point. 

 

Best of both worlds... strong energy flows and no more needing to do anything other than what I'm doing now... I can feel them flowing under the surface all the time, or if I tune in they will get very strong.

 

 

 

Fa Xin,  Thanks.  I know what you are pointing to.  I do feel the most energy when it isn't forced.  I also do sense the energy within when I am calm and in the moment.  I do find this practice gives me great hope when I am struggling with stress in my life.  Unfortunately those are the times it is more forced and probably not the best energy.  There are a lot of good lessons I am learning in these practices.  I will be meeting with a respected taoist teacher in a few weeks and hope to get some additional guidance.  I do feel I am searching more for healing than intense experiences but find it hard to resist pleasurable experiences when they happen spontaneously.

[Fa Xin]

23 minutes ago, interpaul said:

Fa Xin,  Thanks.  I know what you are pointing to.  I do feel the most energy when it isn't forced.  I also do sense the energy within when I am calm and in the moment.  I do find this practice gives me great hope when I am struggling with stress in my life.  Unfortunately those are the times it is more forced and probably not the best energy.  There are a lot of good lessons I am learning in these practices.  I will be meeting with a respected taoist teacher in a few weeks and hope to get some additional guidance.  I do feel I am searching more for healing than intense experiences but find it hard to resist pleasurable experiences when they happen spontaneously.

 

Well the practices are good for the tough times as well... one could argue more important to do during such times!  It can be uplifting and a welcome relief.  Very cool about meeting the Taoist teacher... enjoy, and let us know how it goes! 

[Everything]

10 hours ago, interpaul said:

Ok Everything, I am going to push back just a little.  Last night I did the microcosmic orbit for about a half hour while I was falling asleep.  I focused the energy to see where it might go and it took on a feeling very similar to orgasmic energy but it just circulated in my body.  Not complaining but it resulted in a couple hours of insomnia with surges of intense energy.    It does make me wonder about the neurochemistry of this activation of pleasure centers.  Other intense pleasurable experiences often lead to a surge in dopamine with resultant down regulation of the dopamine receptors in the brain with the long term effect of causing reduced pleasure in other areas of life.  This has been reported in overuse of drugs, alcohol and pornography.  Have you experienced this type of pleasure from meditation and have you found it is sustainable without causing long term emotional problems?  

You allow the energy, not focus or block it. Let it flow. If you resist the energy, yes it can cause emotional discomfort, but that is not a problem, that is perfect. Just like you don't put your hand on a fire, and say, "ouch that hurts. This pain could be problem, let me get some painkillers, so I can place my hand in the fire more often." The pain, which actually serves you, to not do that which causes the pain, which in this case is the holding on to the resistance to the energy to flow more freely and naturally, which allows you to also be more natural and feel good.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Everything

[Everything]

7 hours ago, interpaul said:

Fa Xin,  Thanks.  I know what you are pointing to.  I do feel the most energy when it isn't forced.  I also do sense the energy within when I am calm and in the moment.  I do find this practice gives me great hope when I am struggling with stress in my life.  Unfortunately those are the times it is more forced and probably not the best energy.  There are a lot of good lessons I am learning in these practices.  I will be meeting with a respected taoist teacher in a few weeks and hope to get some additional guidance.  I do feel I am searching more for healing than intense experiences but find it hard to resist pleasurable experiences when they happen spontaneously.

When you first meditate, all hell breaks lose. You allow the energy to flow, and now the resistance is no longer tolerable to you. You become more sensitive to the pain. In other words, nothing has become worse and intensified, it's just your sensitivity that is now more pure and more in harmony. You can simply let go of the resistant perspective (as you know or experience it to be) that causes you to experience your own energy as overwhelming.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Everything

[doc benway]

On 10/29/2018 at 2:25 PM, interpaul said:

I have been practicing the microcosmic orbit meditation for a few months and find it generates a lot of positive energy within my body.  I hear again and again the value of meditation.  Given the pleasurable sensations this particular meditation generates I wonder if this practice could ultimately be just another form of attachment, one that is best to release.  Curious the groups take on this.

 

Anything can become an attachment, including meditation.

This is important to be aware of.

When and if to release it depends on many factors and is one reason why it is so valuable to have an experienced teacher.