The Dao De Jing: A Qigong Interpretation?

[wandelaar]

https://www.amazon.com/Dao-Jing-Qigong-Interpretation/dp/1594396191/ref=sr_1_13?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1541069389&sr=1-13

 

Any comments on this book?

[OldDog]

Although I have not read this particular book, I have read two or three other books by the author, Yang Jwing-ming. In martial arts circles he is known for his publications on internal martial arts and qigong. From my reading, he does not espouse a strong daoist view, except that which internal martial arts might otherwise have some association with. His writings are reasonable well respected. This might be an interesting read.

[Michael Sternbach]

I have many of Dr. Yang's books, though not that one yet. But it's on my reading list now. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

Though I obviously can't comment on this book without having read it yet, Dr. Yang does know what he's talking about when it comes to qigong and related topics.

[cheya]

Thank you for pointing this book out, Wandelaar... 

I read a little on Amazon "Look inside", and appreciated the way Dr. Yang gives a "General Interpretation" and then gives his own "Qigong Interpretation"... I found the few Qigong Interpretations I read to be very... apropos with respect to my current preoccupations on this DB board, which I found pretty amusing.  Sort of a little I Ching reading on what's going on with me (and the board and maybe even the country) right now.  Read Chapter 3 there if you're curious what I'm talking about.

 

I put it on my list  

 

 

[dawei]

His books catapulted me into Qigong.   I have several.  

 

In his Embryonic Breathing, he translated some of the DDJ, so glad to see a full treatment from his life long perspective. 

 

But he is a practitioner not a spiritualist.   He is an engineer by training

 

Nice thread on an interesting new book, thank you ! 

 

 

[dawei]

I'll share a story in regards to YJM.  He is a prolific author and practitioner...    

 

I was studying under a medical qigong master who meet him once.   My master's 'push hands' expertise was in single hand only.  Also, he participated in no rules fighting in asian, so was also doing martial arts.  He was foreboding at about 6'2".  He projected Qi while fighting. He controlled another's Qi when doing push hands.

 

He meet YJM and offered to do push hands demonstration in front of YJM students.  YJM declined the offer.

 

Sometimes humility is the highest order of cultivation. 

[wandelaar]

I have bought the book and at this moment I have read half of it. Yang gives two interpretations for each chapter of the Tao Te Ching: first a 'General Interpretation' and second a 'Qigong Interpretation'. He reckons both interpretations to be correct, because he sees the human body as a microcosm that is structurally similar to the world of Heaven, Earth and Man. An interesting feature of the book is that it contains a lot of citations from old commentaries.

 

I don't know how close Yang's qigong interpretation stays to the traditional texts and practices. Any ideas about that?   

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by wandelaar

[dawei]

22 hours ago, wandelaar said:

I have bought the book and at this moment I have read half of it. Yang gives two interpretations for each chapter of the Tao Te Ching: first a 'General Interpretation' and second a 'Qigong Interpretation'. He reckons both interpretations to be correct, because he sees the human body as a microcosm that is structurally similar to the world of Heaven, Earth and Man. An interesting feature of the book is that it contains a lot of citations from old commentaries.

 

I don't know how close Yang's qigong interpretation stays to the traditional texts and practices. Any ideas about that?   

 

 

Sounds interesting.    Is it too much typing to share a chapter ?

[wandelaar]

See the preview on:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Dao-Jing-Qigong-Interpretation-Tzu/dp/1594396191/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8

 

 

[dawei]

9 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

See the preview on:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Dao-Jing-Qigong-Interpretation-Tzu/dp/1594396191/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8

 

 

 

Here it is in Google Books to see the actual content, partially:

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=PZBlDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Dao+De+Jing:+A+Qigong+Interpretation&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBj6Co7_zeAhWHd98KHVa5AD8Q6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=Dao De Jing%3A A Qigong Interpretation&f=false

[wandelaar]

6 minutes ago, dawei said:

Here it is in Google Books to see the actual content, partially:

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=PZBlDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Dao+De+Jing:+A+Qigong+Interpretation&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBj6Co7_zeAhWHd98KHVa5AD8Q6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=Dao De Jing%3A A Qigong Interpretation&f=false

 

From where I live (the Netherlands) there is no preview to be seen on Google Books.

[Mig]

I wonder what interpretation or commentary is supported to his translation? I read few pages and it seems a good source for a new beginner

[wandelaar]

6 hours ago, Mig said:

I wonder what interpretation or commentary is supported to his translation? I read few pages and it seems a good source for a new beginner

 

I have read the whole book now, and learned a lot. But unhappily I don't know how close Yang's qigong interpretation stays to the interpretations from internal alchemy. It looks like he mixes in some modern science here and there.

[OldDog]

3 hours ago, wandelaar said:

It looks like he mixes in some modern science here and there.

 

I plan on reading this book. Its now in the number 3 position on my reading list. 

 

I have read three or four of YJM's books in the past dealing mostly with martial arts and some qigong. I have always found/felt his material to be genuine in the sense of honest straightforward factual presentation based on his direct experience. So, when you suggested this book, I took note, read some sample material and checked out a few online videos. Since, I have recently decided to renew/reinvigorate my own qigong practice, the appearance of this book seems timely. I tend to follow the old adage: When the student is ready, the teacher appears.

 

I am not disturbed by his use of modern science language to describe qigong concepts. After all, he is not abandoning traditional approach and both modern science and qigong are attempts at describing the same phenomenal world. It seems a fair thing for someone who is knowledgeable about both to show how they might be connected. 

 

Thanks for bringing this up.

 

[wandelaar]

@ OldDog

 

I like to read your comments on the book when you have read it. Yang frequently refers to this book:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Qigong-Meditation-Embryonic-Yang-Jwing-Ming/dp/1886969736/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1544024090&sr=1-1

 

Have you already read that? I haven't. But apparently he thinks embryonic breathing is the key to the more advanced forms of qigong...

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by wandelaar

[OldDog]

@wandelaar

 

I have not read that particular book. I have read

 

https://www.amazon.com/Essence-Taiji-Qigong-Foundation-Arts-Qigong/dp/1886969639/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1544029738&sr=8-1&keywords=the+essence+of+taiji+qigong+the+internal+foundation+of+taijiquan

 

... and three others specifically related to martial arts quite a few years ago. I approached qigong from a martial arts perspective. 

 

Yes, I have noticed his emphasis on embryonic breathing. But since my trajectory was through martial arts, it was not something I have focused on. So, cannot speak much to it much.

[dawei]

This seems to be more just the Intro for folks to see:

 

https://ymaa.com/sites/default/files/book/sample/9781594396199 sample.pdf

 

 

[dawei]

7 hours ago, wandelaar said:

I have read the whole book now, and learned a lot. But unhappily I don't know how close Yang's qigong interpretation stays to the interpretations from internal alchemy. It looks like he mixes in some modern science here and there.

 

2 hours ago, wandelaar said:

Yang frequently refers to this book:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Qigong-Meditation-Embryonic-Yang-Jwing-Ming/dp/1886969736/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1544024090&sr=1-1

 

Have you already read that? I haven't. But apparently he thinks embryonic breathing is the key to the more advanced forms of qigong...

 

I have several of his books including the one mentioned here.  He tends to use the word elixir instead of alchemy for whatever reason.  He also tends to use older documents as the basis for his practice instead of what you may hear in modern alchemy practices called Ming and Xing.  In the above book, I don't think he really covers any Qigong practices to do along with the EB (embryonic breathing) but the focus is on using the EB to achieve the advance stages of Qigong.  Although he has written lots of books on qigong and performs that and martial arts, so he does do physical qigong along with EB, I would suggest.   So, EB may be best suited for someone with a lot of qigong behind them.  

 

In the book he talks of four necessary steps of training:

1. Refine the Essence and convert it to Qi:  One hundred days of Building the Foundation

- Formation of a spiritual baby embryo (Independent spiritual body)

2. Purify Qi and convert it to Shen: Ten Months of Pregnancy

- Nourishing and Growing

3. Refine Shen and return it to Nothingness: Three Years of Nursing

- Three Years of Nursing

4. Crush the Nothingness: Nine Years of Facing the Wall

- Nine Years of Educating Baby Shen to be to become Independent 

 

Five Regulatings:  Body, Breath, Mind, Qi, Spirit

 

He says the Laozi Chapter 16 is the earliest document for Embyronic Breathing.  And mentions that in EB, the four necessary steps are done in reverse order (Shen comes down to meet Qi; Qi comes down to meet LDT).   He summarizes this as finding the spiritual and Qi centers and then bring the Shen down to meet up with Qi.

 

I have not read it for quite but I felt like it needed a more step-by-step.  It is a virtual tome of a collection of his earlier materials, with EB (last chapter is the practice of EB, a mere 22 pages 0f 388), lots of theory and translations of old documents.   I found this last item the most interesting. 

 

 

[flowing hands]

On 12/5/2018 at 7:57 PM, dawei said:

 

 

I have several of his books including the one mentioned here.  He tends to use the word elixir instead of alchemy for whatever reason.  He also tends to use older documents as the basis for his practice instead of what you may hear in modern alchemy practices called Ming and Xing.  In the above book, I don't think he really covers any Qigong practices to do along with the EB (embryonic breathing) but the focus is on using the EB to achieve the advance stages of Qigong.  Although he has written lots of books on qigong and performs that and martial arts, so he does do physical qigong along with EB, I would suggest.   So, EB may be best suited for someone with a lot of qigong behind them.  

 

In the book he talks of four necessary steps of training:

1. Refine the Essence and convert it to Qi:  One hundred days of Building the Foundation

- Formation of a spiritual baby embryo (Independent spiritual body)

2. Purify Qi and convert it to Shen: Ten Months of Pregnancy

- Nourishing and Growing

3. Refine Shen and return it to Nothingness: Three Years of Nursing

- Three Years of Nursing

4. Crush the Nothingness: Nine Years of Facing the Wall

- Nine Years of Educating Baby Shen to be to become Independent 

 

Five Regulatings:  Body, Breath, Mind, Qi, Spirit

 

He says the Laozi Chapter 16 is the earliest document for Embyronic Breathing.  And mentions that in EB, the four necessary steps are done in reverse order (Shen comes down to meet Qi; Qi comes down to meet LDT).   He summarizes this as finding the spiritual and Qi centers and then bring the Shen down to meet up with Qi.

 

I have not read it for quite but I felt like it needed a more step-by-step.  It is a virtual tome of a collection of his earlier materials, with EB (last chapter is the practice of EB, a mere 22 pages 0f 388), lots of theory and translations of old documents.   I found this last item the most interesting. 

 

 

 

Sorry Dawei Yang is talking out of the top of his head. Many things are purported by many so called masters, alot of it is made up or used to cover up what is the truth, or they just simply don't know the truth.

Qi Gong might be a small part of self cultivation but the majority of what Li Erh is talking about is the self and understanding the self leading to true realization, along with self cultivation of spiritual power. 

[dawei]

41 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

Sorry Dawei Yang is talking out of the top of his head. Many things are purported by many so called masters, alot of it is made up or used to cover up what is the truth, or they just simply don't know the truth.

Qi Gong might be a small part of self cultivation but the majority of what Li Erh is talking about is the self and understanding the self leading to true realization, along with self cultivation of spiritual power. 

 

I don't doubt that... I'm sharing what he wrote in a book. 

 

I was rather zealously reading and practicing his stuff and could replicate his Qigong claims...  but once I moved past that stage, I felt he was like most of the Energy practitioners who were heavily devoted and writing but there seemed to be no real substance to their practice in the end.   

 

I shared elsewhere when my Medical Qigong master meet him and offered to do push hands.  Yang declined and correctly so as he was in front of his students.  He must of known what was offered to him; a schooling.

 

Your idea of "understanding the self leading to true realization, along with self cultivation of spiritual power" is something I've tried to get you to talk more about... is it about time we start a new thread on that ?

 

[flowing hands]

34 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

I don't doubt that... I'm sharing what he wrote in a book. 

 

I was rather zealously reading and practicing his stuff and could replicate his Qigong claims...  but once I moved past that stage, I felt he was like most of the Energy practitioners who were heavily devoted and writing but there seemed to be no real substance to their practice in the end.   

 

I shared elsewhere when my Medical Qigong master meet him and offered to do push hands.  Yang declined and correctly so as he was in front of his students.  He must of known what was offered to him; a schooling.

 

Your idea of "understanding the self leading to true realization, along with self cultivation of spiritual power" is something I've tried to get you to talk more about... is it about time we start a new thread on that ?

 

 

Gosh.......... the secrets of Mao Shun.

'let not the gold elixir be a common thing'   

[Mig]

2 hours ago, dawei said:

 

Your idea of "understanding the self leading to true realization, along with self cultivation of spiritual power" is something I've tried to get you to talk more about... is it about time we start a new thread on that ?

 

That will be a great idea, why not starting a new discussion to learn more about those general terms and give more real life examples to understand better if someone is interested in learning them

[Mig]

so far as I am reading this book, I find the notes and interpretation (certainly based on ancient commentaries) are very helpful and makes the translation much easier to understand. There are some minor typos but overall at this point, I highly recommend it.

[Taoist Texts]

On 12/5/2018 at 11:57 PM, dawei said:

any Qigong practices to do along with the EB (embryonic breathing)

what is EB in a nutshell?

[dawei]

15 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

what is EB in a nutshell?

 

In a very small nutshell, Yang say it is "Self-Inner Observation".   The five regulations are important but regulating the mind is paramount to discard ego and not have any plan of progress, and to avoid emotional disturbance.   So there is a physiological preparation in Yang's method.